Boards›Gameplay

Rageblade Needs a Nerf

Archgoose··63 votes·4,119 views

Over the last seven games I've played this weekend I have noticed that Champions that carry Rageblades seem to be getting an absurd amount of kills. It seems to me that this item has become fairly problematic especially on some Champions (Jax, Yi, J4, etc., heck I even saw a Diana with a Rageblade that roflstomped in team fights) I suspect maybe because of the new Masteries setups; unless someone else can explain why it's suddenly become so strong? I know Rageblade hasn't exactly really been all that popular in awhile, and I suspect it's strong right now to try and get more people to use it, but there needs to be better balance here. As it stands it is incredibly frustrating when you're against someone like Jax with a Rageblade and you have to focus them in team fights because they have a Rageblade and if you don't burst them down fast enough they're basically just going to solo your entire team, and that's exactly what they want you to do because it means the rest of their team gets to engage at leisure. Once they get a Rageblade and a Guardian's Angel it's basically impossible to actually stop them from killing at least one member of your team. As it stands Rageblade disincentivizes team fights (or just any straight up fights for that matter) because nobody other than those with Rageblades actually want to engage. I'm not a big meta theorist, so I have no actual suggestions on how to better balance this item, I just feel that given my perceptions of it in the last several games I've played it has way too high an impact for a single item.

68 Comments

Social Justice 124 votes

Please use your enter key.

Anyway Rageblade is broken because it gives too many stats once you charge it. Like the stat value is over twice the actual price of the item itself

IronwallJackson16 votes

It's not just that, but also the fact that certain champions get waaaay too much out of using it. Look at Jax, Xin. Sated Devourer + Guinsoo's gives them so much power and they have zero problem getting their stacks up.

Bonipherus3 votes

Melee champs get 2 stacks from their autos. Take that away and bring the stacks to like 10 and the abuse cases will really fall off because you actually have to work for the stacks.

IronwallJackson8 votes

The problem with the item, as it currently stands, is that it's too difficult to get the stacks for some champions and too easy for others. The melee champions who can get their 4 abuse the item, while the ranged champions who can't make it to 8 stacks with any reliability do not. Removing the double stacking might make it unusable all around.

Honestly, I think they need to rework the item entirely.

Krinu2 votes

The biggest problem isn't on the toplaners that use it; it's on the AS-based hybrid junglers: Irelia, Yi, Jax, Xin Zhao, and Shyvana. Sated Devourer means that they can fully stack the item in three autoattacks.

I think that giving melee twice as many stacks as ranged isn't appropriate. Yes, melee has a harder time engaging and won't have the uptime of a ranged champion, but gap closers, slows, and roots exist for a reason.

IMO? Make it 6 stacks, with melee not getting any extra.

Bonipherus2 votes

What if instead of stacking guinsoo's twice as quickly they just had more time before the stacks fell off?

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

The biggest problem isn't on the toplaners that use it; it's on the AS-based hybrid junglers: Irelia, Yi, Jax, Xin Zhao, and Shyvana. Sated Devourer means that they can fully stack the item in three autoattacks.

I think that giving melee twice as many stacks as ranged isn't appropriate. Yes, melee has a harder time engaging and won't have the uptime of a ranged champion, but gap closers, slows, and roots exist for a reason.

IMO? Make it 6 stacks, with melee not getting any extra.

Yes, let's reinforce the idea that only melee champs with gap closers can play League.

I don't think there's a single melee champion with a root in the game, besides Singed and not even Singed mains land that effectively.

Slows don't stack anymore but Riot hasn't increased individual slows on champions to compensate this, so they're much less effective for getting into range.

If Rageblade is changed in any significant way it will go back to being unplayable. It's strong now but items should be strong. Same power spike as IE, I don't see the problem.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Well if you plan on dealijg damage but can't close the gap then what use are you? Also this is why ms boost support items and supports/mages with ms boosts exist.

Who needs a root when you have a Aatrox knockup Jax stun Udyr also a stun XinZhao and a knockup?

Yes, slows don't stack, so now it's harder to kite immobile champs since you can't stack em. Works both ways bud.

Keti2 votes

Don't see the problem? Have you not witnessed the unreal powerspike that occurs when any champion that auto attacks builds this item? I find it absurd people are thinking this item is defensible. It's single handedly taken certain champions from obscurity to permaban status. It's like preseason 3 black cleaver except only like 8 champs can build it.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

Don't see the problem? Have you not witnessed the unreal powerspike that occurs when any champion that auto attacks builds this item? I find it absurd people are thinking this item is defensible. It's single handedly taken certain champions from obscurity to permaban status. It's like preseason 3 black cleaver except only like 8 champs can build it.

And? Irelia, Jax, Xin and Udyr need this item because if they don't have a strong early power spike the game ends before they even finish Sated.

aperson11 votes

But the primary buyers of Guinsoo's DO have gap closers. Xin, Irelia, Jax, etc. all have point and click dashes. Most of the immobile ones don't really care for Guinsoo's and would rather buy mixed offensive or straight tank items. Why would a Darius or a Garen buy Guinsoo's?

The most immobile champ that cares about the item I can think of is Udyr, and saying that Bear Stance isn't a strong catchup mechanism is disingenuous at best. I'd also argue he only buys it at the moment because it's incredibly strong - Devourer into Guinsoo's makes him relatively squishy, but he's saved by the fact that the item is so cheap.

At any rate, I don't think a 2500g item that essentially says "you can 1v1 anyone, go splitpush forever" is very interesting to have in the game.

Elkhantar1 votes

Maokai? but my memory might fail me :D

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Maokai? but my memory might fail me :D

Maokai has a root but I wasn't counting it because it was also a gap closer, and the implication was that you could use roots on champs who didn't have gap closers.

RisenDarkKnight1 votes

Actually it doesn't combo with sated. It still takes 4 autos no matter what (though auto resets help, obviously). Sated does increase the onhit damage once you get to 8 stacks, but it still takes you 4 autos after you get sated to start applying the on hit.

ChaoticPinecone2 votes

If you make it 6, it suffers from the same problems as before. Ranged take too long to benefit from the item, especially if its bought early. And melee will never get full stacks in a fight outside of laning.

And it still takes 4 autos to stack. Sated only effects the on-hit damage after the stack, not the on-attack effect of stacking.

maikokk1 votes

Kassadin item 3931 item 3124 item 3146

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1287666826226.png

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

Also, even though it's not brought up much for this, it's the most efficient way to buy AS iirc, so it has stupid amounts of synergy with the Fervor keystone. Keeping stacks up for either one keeps the other up, and rage blade helps stack the keystone faster while providing tons of AS at max stacks in order to increase the damage gained from keystone. (Oh and many champs who can use it for split pushing don't have a good form of AOE clear and RB let's them split easier w/ the AOE minion clear)

Josheheh12 votes

just take off 3 ad

Fadedpf8 votes

Increasing the price by 300 gold next patch

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eDyXIXyAZq0/hqdefault.jpg

Redaga1 votes

this is not and AP item, riot dont want AD champs to feel they have to work harder for their AD build

Dirty Roleplayer6 votes

Painful to read. Paragraphs next time.

Aitikian3 votes

300 gold isn't enough this item makes me feel dirty when using it, and dirtier when I'm on the receiving end. Any champion with attack speed can crush with this item from Aatrox to WW

Quort1 votes

It's pretty hilarious on KogMaw. It's like a ranged Hydra! Also, while I haven't tried it. It feels like Kayle would be even crazier! xD

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

It's pretty hilarious on KogMaw. It's like a ranged Hydra! Also, while I haven't tried it. It feels like Kayle would be even crazier! xD

I saw even a Nida pickup this item...It's ridic. She went AD nida after she stomped malphite top. But the stomping happened even before rageblade, but even so, she was sufficiently hard to handle at that point.

Helliom1 votes

{quoted}

It's pretty hilarious on KogMaw. It's like a ranged Hydra! Also, while I haven't tried it. It feels like Kayle would be even crazier! xD

Have tried it on Kayle.. the only prob is stacking it wave never lasts for 8 autos lol... unlike melle like Jax who can hit 4 minions and Jump on you it's quite difficult to keep it stacked for a fight

CrazedPorcupine3 votes

2 things. It stacks twice as fast on melee champs. And 2, it's stupid cheap.

kaltenashes3 votes

finally i can buy item 3124 and people are whining about it... cry for cassiopeia,cry for quinn,cry for mordekaiser,cry for fking GALIO

Defy Phoenix2 votes

It has become so stupid lately, I think the item has a place in the game, but these abuse cases with sated devourer on melee champs is allow the stacks to accumulate too quickly the inverse of what currently is going on needs to happen, 2 stacks for ranged, 1 stack for melee it's just too strong of an item.

Seenan2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Defy Phoenix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UBbtAs1F,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-11-23T04:32:23.060+0000)

It has become so stupid lately, I think the item has a place in the game, but these abuse cases with sated devourer on melee champs is allow the stacks to accumulate too quickly the inverse of what currently is going on needs to happen, 2 stacks for ranged, 1 stack for melee it's just too strong of an item.

No, lol. A Kog stacking this in 4 hits and possibly a Lucian in 2 spells + 2 passive procs? Do not want.

Stained Spear1 votes

I aint goin back to that dupster no fuckin wayXinZhao shit keeps me goin like eddie murphy on crack

MetalGearTeemu1 votes

that feeling when you're lvl 11 and xins 0-4 and lvl 8, then he gets this item and can STILL out all-in you unless you also have rageblade.

Never have I had less fun playing toplane Blitzcrunk. Then I bought Rageblade on him. Hell, I've seen people bullying top lane with shit like Rageblade Nunu.

[zombie-nunu-tears]

Saphixia1 votes

Lol i just played a bots game (it was my first time nunu, i just bought him, so i was trying him out) where i had this weird ass thought "Why not get rageblade on Nunu?" I mean think (because it worked way to well) It gives AP and ad, so i use w on my self, slap them up all nice and pretty, super high attackspeed, getting faster. You shred turrets reallllly fast, almost tryndamere fast seriously, try it sometime

Only Play Darius2 votes

You realize bots are complete shit and do a terrible job of simulating real players right? Literally any build works there ffs you can get 1v5 pentakills with ADC Veigar in bots

If you think rageblade Nunu is a reliable build in matchmade games because it works in bots then you are in for a rude awakening.

Saphixia1 votes

i actually played a game on a smurf of mine (well it isnt really a smurf, its the same level as moty main account) but i went rageblade nunu in ranked and did a great job. Sorry for your rude awakening

Rebonack1 votes

Rageblade really needs to only give 1 stack regardless of whether a champ is ranged or melee.

That would be the best place to start. If it's still silly after that, then I suspect targeted nerfs to champion kits and maybe some nerfs to Rageblade's stacking power would be the way to go. Just reducing its max number of stacks could help. Start at 7 and keep whittling it back until it's reasonable.

Or just treat it as the core multiplicative item it is and put it at the same price point as IE and Deathcap (item 1026 item 1037 item 1043).

Verxint1 votes

They just need to up the cost and/or nerf the base damage on the proc.

Rebonack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Mac is OP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UBbtAs1F,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2015-11-23T18:17:40.509+0000)

They just need to up the cost and/or nerf the base damage on the proc.

The damage on the OnHit isn't the problem. Wit's hits harder.

The crazy amount of raw stats is.

Verxint1 votes

Wits doesn't scale.

Guinsoos should be about scaling, not base, imo lowering the base will reduce the powerspike

Bladerunner77771 votes

I like it because it makes irelia easy and I really suck at irelia but I want to get better

Only Play Darius1 votes

Why do you act like Irelia is hard to play lmfao

Bladerunner77771 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UBbtAs1F,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2015-11-23T19:31:00.135+0000)

Why do you act like Irelia is hard to play lmfao

I almost got a pentakill the 3rd time I played irelia (ranked game as well) but ever since then I think I started doing worse and worse with her.

Maybe the hard part is using her in any matchup because it requires knowing your limits and the enemies strengths which I lack because the only top laners I play are hecarim and malphite

Ultîma1 votes

Rageblade's recipe should be changed and the cost updated. It's easily an item that could build out of Tiamat + AP for a total cost hovering around 3500 gold. Even then it might still need to be looked at but at least it wouldn't be obscenely powerful for its cost/accessible before the 15 minute mark.

ChessPwn9951 votes

It got three buffs this preseason. One is that it now has stacking AD on hit, very desirable. The second was the added extra damage and AoE part of it. Third is the 2x charge rate for melee. So after 4 hits you're doing an extra 20+15%bonus AD(3.6) and 7.5%ap(2.4) so min 26 damage just from this item.

Leu071 votes

Rageblade is the only thing making Kog'maw viable at the moment.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

You saw me with Rageblade as Diana?

Ssssssh. I don't want Hybrid Diana removed.

And the problem you're speaking of isn't the interaction between Rageblade and these champions, it's the interaction between Rageblade and Sated Devourer, which not only works extremely well on those champions alone, but halves the time it takes to start Rage's passive.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

Actually, sated doesn't effect the rage passive, although it does apply the on-hit. You can see this plenty of times on my video about Morde's spagehetti code, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3CfP9Ei_YI, although I don't specifically mention it. Rageblade stack generation is on-attack, not on-hit.

DarkRitual1 votes

It's possible right now to build complete mixed on any champ and be effective. There are TOO many items that fit into it. Rageblade, Wit's End, Nashor's Tooth, Runaan's Hurricane, Hextech Gunblade. Blade of the Ruined King also deals bonus Magic damage.

I've seen ADC's build this path, and lose nothing in their fighting ability. The point is, it's no longer something that is only good on a few champs, it's not even a side-path for a few. It's an option anyone. It's not adding diversity if it's viable on everyone. It's not the same as blue ez, ap kog, ad Malzahar, etc.

SoMNia1 votes

{quoted}

It's not adding diversity if it's viable on everyone.

...What? That doesn't make any sense. Another viable build path does increase diversity, unless it becomes so strong that it's the only viable build path, and that's not what happened.

Also, Runaan's Hurricane and Blade of the Ruined King do not deal magic damage.

SoMNia1 votes

It suddenly became strong because they DOUBLED the attack speed per stack (making it grant the highest attack speed of any single item when fully stacked) and also added AD per stack. The on-hit at 8 stacks is a nice bonus, of course.

The problem is that it's too cheap. The cost was just increased by 300, but that's not enough. I think they should add a Recurve Bow to the recipe. Make it 40 AD, 40 AP, and 25% attack speed base stats, and reduce the attack speed per stack to 5%. Change the total cost to 3500 or so.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yYBm9rXq-i-honestly-love-the-changes-placed-in-however-i-as-well-as-many-have-a-few-suggestions

12 would solve rageblade issues

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