What is Karthus' niche?

SorinBlack·Aug 19, 2015·1 votes·1,169 views

So we all know , he's the guy watching all the other lanes waiting for a chance to ult someone who's low. We all have our way to counter this , or mitigate its effects ; Not to mention you can simply use cc to stop his ult before it goes off (assuming he isn't casting while using his passive). But besides his ult, and standing in the middle of a teamfight with e and waiting to die so he can do it some more, i don't really feel like he has a real unique role in the current meta. He doesn't counter anyone in lane, but he has many counters. He has no cool or unique mechanics, and in my opinion is just generally underwhelming.

What can we do about this? I'd like it if there was more to playing than just anticipating where your opponent will step next.

Lets get some brainstorming going!

12 Comments

Trash MammaIAug 19, 20154 votes

He's the same as Twisted Fate. You don't play him to win your lane you play him to get fed off other lanes and farm in yours.

(In thematic terms):

As Karthus in lane all you're doing is harvesting minion souls getting them to join your "chorus" then you see a low hp enemy so you cast your ult and get them to join you as well. He's the deathsinger. His job is to be sure you don't cheat death and make sure you meet your end.

In teamfights his job isn't to be some panzy in the backline spamming Q. His job is to get into the middle of them. Set down his W (acts as a gate) and spam Q with his E on till he dies. Then ults. Karthus doesn't see himself as dying but rather bringing people to the shadow isle with him.

TL;DR He makes sure your ass dies!

SorinBlackAug 19, 20151 votes

i agree, but at least twisted fate you have the w card roulette. Or how Sona's autoattack has extra effects depending on the last spell used. to me there's just nothing... interesting, about him. he just does what he does.

Trash MammaIAug 19, 20151 votes

It's because you're dead and can't see the interesting part! (Singing space jam in a chorus with Karthus!)

EnosetcAug 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Simple Tora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U1rH0ZZG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-19T06:49:20.413+0000)

He's the same as Twisted Fate. You don't play him to win your lane you play him to get fed off other lanes and farm in yours.

(In thematic terms):

As Karthus in lane all you're doing is harvesting minion souls getting them to join your "chorus" then you see a low hp enemy so you cast your ult and get them to join you as well. He's the deathsinger. His job is to be sure you don't cheat death and make sure you meet your end.

In teamfights his job isn't to be some panzy in the backline spamming Q. His job is to get into the middle of them. Set down his W (acts as a gate) and spam Q with his E on till he dies. Then ults. Karthus doesn't see himself as dying but rather bringing people to the shadow isle with him.

TL;DR He makes sure your ass dies!

well said

NemeBroAug 19, 20152 votes

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=&sortBy=general.totalDamageDealtToChampions&order=descend

Karthus has the highest average damage dealt of any champion in the entire game.

That is his niche. No one brings as much AOE damage as Karthus. His team fighting is absolutely insane. If even with any other mid laner, come late game he'll be more useful than almost all of them.

SaltyKrackaAug 19, 20152 votes

Karthus' whole thing is basically HOLY SHIT he's good at teamfights. He puts up his wall and dives into teamfights, deals all the damage and dies, then deals all the damage and ults.

Hasztalan2Aug 19, 20152 votes

Ye calling one of the, if not the highest dps mage who can deal the damage even if he is dead "bad" and "non-unique" just shows you havent really playewd him. From my side i'm happy he is not really played apart from hardcore mains as it is a nightmare to play vs a good karthus as he literally has no counters.

SorinBlackAug 19, 20151 votes

i actually play him quite a bit. I know his strengths and weaknesses. I know he does tons of damage, and he can secure kills. What i'm saying is that he's just really simple. two of his abilities take literally just clicking the button, and a third can be placed on top of someone instantly. Where's the spice? The pizzaz? His passive is cool, but as i've seen too often, people aren't stupid enough to just stand in it and let you hit them. What i think he needs is the gangplank/fiora treatment. give him a 'minigame' that takes a little setup for a huge effect.

Lil SoybeanAug 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i actually play him quite a bit. I know his strengths and weaknesses. I know he does tons of damage, and he can secure kills. What i'm saying is that he's just really simple. two of his abilities take literally just clicking the button, and a third can be placed on top of someone instantly. Where's the spice? The pizzaz? His passive is cool, but as i've seen too often, people aren't stupid enough to just stand in it and let you hit them. What i think he needs is the gangplank/fiora treatment. give him a 'minigame' that takes a little setup for a huge effect.

Absolutely not. His "minigame" is the way you constantly try to not only land Q's, but use Q's to cut people off, to zone people, to mind-game people into running in loops while you're slowly closing in with your E, forcing the target to choose between weaving away from Qs (but falling slowly into your approaching E) or just running directly away but being hit by Q's predictably. This "spacing" minigame is emphasized even more by his wall, which really forces his targets into a lot of snap-decision-making. Try to dodge the Qs? Fall into his E. Try to run? Run into his wall, and get locked down by slows. When is it too late - should I turn and try to fight in his AoE? Suddenly you're a target sitting still for easy Q's. Etc.

Suggesting they need to rework him in any way, especially to add more complex mechanics like a "minigame", is like saying that auto attacking isn't complicated enough, and should be replaced with a minigame. It definitely shouldn't be, lol. :P

Karthus 'minigame' is that he basically does the spell equivalent of auto attacks, but can miss them...as well as use them for zoning, kiting, and chasing.

For reference, if you're going the old RoA build and just afk farming to late game, you might not have noticed this as much because you're just using your Q for farming, rather than real mid-game dueling.

His optimal build by a huge stretch is tear rush into rylai's, and then zhonya's. (No Rod of Ages.). permanent 40% slow with his Q. You can perma-kite with it, perma-chase with it, and it increases his DPS massively by allowing you to land more Q's as well.

Tear provides sufficient mana on its own, so you shouldn't be building RoA with it. It would be strong, sure, but it wouldn't be nearly as strong as his other options. (Zhonya's for teamfighting, then Void Staff to abuse his insane base damages.) Besides, the RoA mana becomes superfluous late-game when you're dying in teamfights before you go out of mana, and then you have 0 mana costs in your undead form.

Just random tips. You don't have to take my word for it, I'm only gold. But have you ever heard of Trisexual? Silly name aside, he's a guy who has been challenger for several seasons playing literally nothing but 100% Karthus in ranked. He is probably the best Karthus in the world, definitely past Azingy & Phantomlord. Not that they're bad at all - just that Trisexual is ridiculously good. You can find a VOD of him first-blooding Scarra at level 1 on youtube.

Anyway, he rushes tear->rylais->sorc boots->zhonyas->void staff->archangel's/rabadon's. Invariably. Just in case anyone is interested. ^_^

Social Justice 1Aug 19, 20152 votes

His trademarks are the global 5-man ult and magic crits.

His niche is in his consistent high damage and being the only lategame carry that embraces death.

NoMonkuAug 19, 20151 votes

He does a lot of damage. If the enemy team stands on top of him, he will be able to dish out tons of damage, even turning the teamfight if they are dumb enough to do it. All he really has going for him is burning down the enemy and as the game has transitioned towards teams taking more champions with CC, he has fallen off. He also is very low mobility compared to newer picks, making him less safe to play in lane and making it harder for him to scaled into the late game. Also his Q's are dodgeable, which is a huge portion of his kit.