So when is riot gonna do something about fizz kit ?

iTzDarkVoid·Feb 3, 2016·5 votes·519 views

Am i the only person who thinks fizz kit needs a rework ? lol....

16 Comments

TohobFeb 3, 20161 votes

his troll pole just needs to have a reasonable cooldown. 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 is ridiculous for what is a strictly better version of Vladimir pool, which has a cd of 26 / 23 / 20 / 17 / 14

i really don't understand. it comes with built in mobility and it does more damage, yet the cooldown starts at 10 seconds faster and never ends up slower???

it should have a longer cooldown than the pool, not a shorter one.

Slamurai JackFeb 3, 20167 votes

You understand what the difference is between Fizz and Vlad is, don't you? Fizz is a squishy melee assassin that has to be at melee range to kill enemies and Vlad is a tanky ranged DPS mage who's intended counterplay is being dove and bursted. Vlad doesn't have to place himself at melee range of enemies to do his job and thus his survivability ability is weaker. Not to mention that he also has his insane healing.

Definitely BaitFeb 3, 20162 votes

Vlad also only has one escape tool. Fizz has his E and the situational Q to escape. A 12 s cooldown at max rank would be much more reasonable. Or they could make his E a long cooldown risky move (Either engage or Disengage) and buff his damage a little bit to compensate. That way there is a big window to gut the fish when he misuses his troll pole and doesn't get the ult off.

Slamurai JackFeb 4, 20162 votes

A 12 second cooldown at max rank would make assassin Fizz unviable. And frankly, I don't want bruiser Fizz back.

Definitely BaitFeb 4, 20161 votes

I should clarify 12 second cooldown and buff his Ap Ratios a bit (Damage).

Slamurai JackFeb 4, 20162 votes

So you want AP bruiser Fizz.

Definitely BaitFeb 4, 20161 votes

What makes you so sure that it'd result in a item 3027 item 3136 item 3116 into tank ap bruiser style fizz? (Maybe Iceborn in there somewhere, though it doesn't have ap anymore so its hard to say) I want fizz to be scared to waste it when he uses the pole and not just pop the pole whenever its off cooldown and the enemy is near him or about to hit something.

The bruiser style fizz would also take a while to scale up more than likely he'd be weaker early game

Slamurai JackFeb 4, 20162 votes

If you don't give a melee champion reliable tools to avoid damage entirely, then you need to build tanky, otherwise you're not viable. Riven has all her mobility, CC, and shield, Yasuo has his mobility, shield, and windwall, Yi has his super speed, meditate, and Q to constantly go untargetable, and Tryndamere has his heal, his spin, and his ult. And these champions often build some tank anyway because even all those tools aren't enough to survive. What does Fizz have? His E, and very situationally his Q. Maybe a Zhonyas once he has it. That's it. Making his E CD longer and thus less reliable necessitates buidling him tanky since he'll now need to be able to tank hits to do his job. That means bruiser builds, likely something along the lines of item 3100 item 3027 item 3116 item 3001 item 3158 item 3157 . If that's still too squishy, expect to see something like item 3742 item 3102 item 3110 . Point is, demanding that Fizz E be less reliable by raising the CD forces him into tankier builds and removes his intended counterplay: Force out the E and then focus the Fizz. Once Fizz gets tanky, you have to find a new strategy, and there really isn't a particularly good one. There's a reason Riot effectively removed AD bruiser Fizz from the game, and that reason was because those kinds of builds circumvented Fizz's intended counterplay while still allowing him to do his job.

Definitely BaitFeb 4, 20161 votes

Your argument does make sense and is valid. However, you do not address how building a roa + lichbane / ap bruiser build will affect his power spikes and laning phase.

With a ap bruiser build and a longer E will there be a larger window early game to snowball off him? Starting RoA he will have a period where he has just a blasting rod or catalyst. On a lichbane rush he'll have just a sheen. How often would the slightly longer cooldown on a wasted E result in his demise?

There is counterplay to fizz's E and he isn't particularly strong currently (Actually balanced 48% winrate at diamond + elo, and 50.7% winrate across all elos). But, that still doesn't address the base issue. Fizz's E is considered to be one of the most annoyingly unfun toxic skills to play against in game by many players (Up there with Teemo shrooms). It also skews his balance. When fizz is strong his E is too reliable and when he is weak it's just an irritating annoyance.

His E needs to either be made valuable enough to second guess using or it needs to have portions of its power budget cut out and redistributed to the rest of his kit. As it stands currently at full build he has a attack that repositions, offers invulnerability, and deals 270 + 75% ap damage every 4 or 5 seconds. This isn't fun for the opponent. If you don't take him down in that 4 or 5 seconds you have to predict which direction he's going on the next one and if he decides to go back in on you will it be damaging enough to reverse the fight while at the same time it gives you the pleasure of possibly wasting any skillshot you might be using at the time it comes up. (Timers are very easy to lose track of mid trade, it happens at all level of play)

Raising it to 12 seconds might be too high (once every 8 seconds at full build). It was just a number that seemed to be a reasonable point to start (It'd be even with the cooldown that e has with 3 points invested right now) .

What do you believe would be a reasonable answer to fix the irritating affect his E has currently? (That wouldn't bring about the resurgence of the nightmare that was on hit / bruiser fizz) So he can be powerful without being so universally considered annoying / Hated?

Slamurai JackFeb 4, 20165 votes

There really is no solution that preserves the character. Fizz players would absolutely love to build tanky and have it be viable, any melee champion would. That means Riot has to make them so dependent on scaling that you can't build tanky. Those champs also need to still be viable when squishy, so Riot needs to give them very powerful tools to allow them to avoid danger. Fizz's E is merely his tool. Other melee champs have the tools I explained before. If you make that tool far less reliable by raising the CD, then you need to give him power elsewhere. Giving him extra base damage simply encourages him to build tanky again. Giving him better scaling just makes him even more snowbally than he already is. And giving him extra utility is always problematic because he's an assassin, and would also likely encourage him to build tanky. There really is no good solution that I can think of which is why Riot hasn't reworked him yet. They've determined that his current identity isn't problematic enough to justify a full rework and I agree. Fizz's E is annoying no doubt but it's the signature move of the champion and Fizz isn't exactly dominating the game right now.

iTzDarkVoidFeb 4, 20162 votes

gets zhonya, insta e cd right there for use when the zhonya is off, so lets make that a double troll pole

Definitely BaitFeb 4, 20161 votes

Zhonya's Hourglass has a longer cooldown than his ult. So He'd only get off that combo once per minute or so.

iTzDarkVoidFeb 4, 20162 votes

but thats enough for the cd to reset for the 5v5 to occure again get it, still broken imo

TeemoXNidaleeFeb 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

his troll pole just needs to have a reasonable cooldown. 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 is ridiculous for what is a strictly better version of pool, which has a cd of 26 / 23 / 20 / 17 / 14

i really don't understand. it comes with built in mobility and it does more damage, yet the cooldown starts at 10 seconds faster and never ends up slower???

it should have a longer cooldown than the pool, not a shorter one.

Ok let fizz be manaless and his Q heal him, then we can increase E's cooldown. You can't compare vlad and fizz, two very different champions with distinct roles just because they both have untargetability.

BonipherusFeb 4, 20161 votes

Just wait 2 years for the assassin update

stealthfox94Feb 4, 20161 votes

TBH I thought they missed an opportunity to make him a top lane/jungler bruiser last year. I actually liked maxing his W and playing AD bruiser Fizz. Instead now he's just a meh assassin with a really good E.