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Players should allow to leave without penalty when another person quits

Subtle Asian··58 votes·15,280 views

Playing a 4 vs 5 is already a negative experience in most games as the team of 4 has little chance of winning assuming the teams are near equally skilled.

It therefore makes little sense to force teams of 4 players to continue playing a game to a minimum of 15 minutes to forfeit (could be significantly more if someone refuses to forfeit) given it only furthers the negative game-play experience. This current system effectively keeps the team of 4 hostage as they are forced to play it out and cannot leave an unfair and unfun game as they would also suffer leaver penalties and this only creates unnecessary frustration due to powerlessness against leavers.

I feel League should adopt the Dota system in handling leavers. Their system allows players to leave without penalty only after a couple of minutes have passed after a person has not reconnected after disconnecting. This allows a buffer for legitimate disconnects to reconnect in which case the game can continue. However, if the buffer elapses, all players can leave without penalty sparing them from being trapped in a negative game play experience. The match would still be considered a loss which would preserve competitive integrity.

I'm not disputing it is possible to win 4 vs 5s or even 3 v 5s and yes every player can vote to surrender how they want but I think it is important to acknowledge that these scenarios more likely then not result in a loss for the team with leavers. If the leave occurs early in the game, this can mean playing for an extended amount of time at a significant disadvantage only to inevitably lose which can be incredibly frustrating.

Just because this option exists doesn't mean it has to be utilized. If the players think the 4 vs 5 is still winnable, they can of course continue to opt to play. It only enables players to save time when it is obvious the game is not winnable.

Continued Note: I think it is fair for the person who initially disconnected and failed to reconnect after the set time period to be punished. It is everyone's responsibility to ensure a stable internet connection when playing and a team shouldn't be penalized because of one's persons faulty internet connection.

I don't think this change would enforce a "GG at 15" mentality. It only reduces some very real frustration caused by leavers in which players have very little power in response.

62 Comments

Makami14 votes

I actually agree. If it's a 4v5 I don't see why I have any reason I should have to stay.

ModAcademy Kayn14 votes

Just because this option exists doesn't mean it has to be utilized. If the players think the 4 vs 5 is still winnable, they can of course continue to opt to play

Or the change just enforces the "GG at 15" attitude that is becoming more and more prevalent nowadays. Why bother wasting time the moment someone DCs when you can just cruise on out and do something else entirely scott-free? I've had fed folk give up the second it becomes a 4v5, it's absurd. Not to mention, what if someone DCs, but someone else already left the game?

The first DC'd player came back, but the other guy left. Do you still punish the first guy for DC'ing, and allowing people to leave the game, as now the game is still a 4v5 as opposed to a 5v5 should that player have kept on playing. Or do you punish that guy who left, for not sticking around until the DC'd player came back, because now he's the reason the team is losing, not the first player.

Just play the damn game. You signed up for at least minimum, possibly a 15 minute game.

Subtle Asian15 votes

I'm suggesting players can only leave without penalty after a predetermined time period (say 5 minutes) similar to the Dota 2 system. That way, if it actually is an accidental dc, 5 minutes seems a reasonable time to reconnect.

And btw, I do want to play the game. But I want to play a game that is fun. Playing a 4 vs 5 is usually only frustrating given players are forced to play it out with low liklihood of winning.

And yes the first DC'd player should be the one punished if they fail to reconnect after the buffer time period. Leaving for an extended time already constitutes a disadvantage for the team and that should be punished.

Spank the Fox4 votes

I’m a “nevur surrenduh” kind of person, but yes, 4v5s are a special kind of unfun.

DotA 2’s system is pretty great, but they even went one step further that if the DC’d person stays DC’d for 5 mins, you can sell their items and the game will split their gold and their passive income between the 4 remaining players, so they can stick it out if they choose to stay.

Subtle Asian3 votes

I'm against splitting a DC'd person's gold to the rest of the team as that creates incentive for toxic players to encourage poor performing players to leave a game for their gold.

I only want this mechanism installed to lower some of the frustration caused by leavers.

Weiss Guertena4 votes

Toxic players will act toxic towards players that don't perform well either way, so it wouldn't change much.

ZerglingOne1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subtle Asian,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TcXaA9Fn,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-28T13:20:33.664+0000)

I'm against splitting a DC'd person's gold to the rest of the team as that creates incentive for toxic players to encourage poor performing players to leave a game for their gold.

I only want this mechanism installed to lower some of the frustration caused by leavers.

It's also not a true 4v5 in DotA. The dc'd hero can be played too.

Magearna2 votes

FF14 also allows this. Yes it's a different type of gameplay but you're right, just having the option is really nice.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

A fellow FF14 fan? Nice.

In fairness, FF14 allows you to do that, because there is no 'losing' in FFxiv, not until Extreme content. There's only a time limit. Playing a Dungeon with no Tank or DPS, slows the content down immensely. You can't strategize or outthink AI mobs. You also can't beat dungeons without a Healer unless you have a Warrior

Magearna1 votes

Lmao that last strikethrough, very well put friend :P

LordGeovanni2 votes

5 minutes isnt enough to restart a computer and get back into the game. Hell it takes 2-3 minutes to identify you have a problem as it could just be slow load times Ive been in 8 minute loading screens that eventually started as a game

ninjaroxas7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TcXaA9Fn,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-11-28T10:01:29.511+0000) Just play the damn game. You signed up for at least minimum, possibly a 15 minute game.

You sign up for a 5v5 game not a 4v5 game. I personally don't give a damn if I win if I didn't have fun doing it

Succubús GF3 votes

Fancy seeing you here again mercy main [slayer-jinx-wink]

And of course you are spewing incorrect bullshit again :^) Nobody wants to sit there and play out a 4v5 due to a rage quitter or even just a dc

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

Which is why Surrendering exists, if all 4 people want out, they're more than welcome to. I had a game where a very negative minded Ahri decided the game wasn't worth playing, and left it. Our Riven was doing well, and we managed to pull off a 4v5 through teamplay and taking initiative with engages.

The enemy team has an advantage, there is no doubt. But 4v5s are by no means, by themselves, unwinnable. What people are conflating the issue with, is when the enemy team is already winning and ahead, so you're put even further behind by a 4v5. That is what Surrenders are for. But encouraging a mind set of "Just put on your best face for 5 minutes so you can leave" is not what you agreed to by hitting accept. You agreed to put your best effort into the game, and if the team wants out, you can all leave.

But if 3 people want to try and pull back a 4v5, you do not deserve to leave after 5 minutes. Put some effort in. Play smart.

As for being 'incorrect', if we're going by upvotes, I'm at least 50/50 at being either or.

LunarFoxz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toki Lily,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TcXaA9Fn,comment-id=00040003,timestamp=2018-11-29T01:37:52.869+0000)

Fancy seeing you here again mercy main [slayer-jinx-wink]

And of course you are spewing incorrect bullshit again :^) Nobody wants to sit there and play out a 4v5 due to a rage quitter or even just a dc

That's where your wrong, my friend...

Succubús GF1 votes

Then may all your games be 4v5 and one sided, miserable luck. Cheers

Copic8 votes

I've won plenty of 4v5's in my day, even 3v5's. A player on your team has every right to vote no if the game is a 4v5, it is their own accounted vote. This means that allowing players to leave mid game would ruin the experience for players who are actually trying to win said game.

This applies especially to ranked.

9NINE2 votes

sry bud but this ain't season 5

BlackEyesBlue5 votes

Game NEEDS a system like this, in normals at least. I hate no players more then the ones who INSIST you keep jumping into the enemy team to die over and over when you are short handed and the enemy team is kill farming...

If you refuse? They ALWAYS start calling for the enemy team to report you. I would love to be able to abandon these nerds to a 3 or even 2 v 5. See how long they cling to their "NEVER SURRENDER" philosophy.

GentlemanTrap4 votes

I don't understand people that are against such an idea. ''Oh, but you can still win 4v5, I've done so-'' bla bla bla... I've played mobas ever since Icefrog took over dota and in all these years, the amount of lost 4v5s is incomparably higher than the ones I've won. Just yesterday I played two games 4v5 back to back, due to people dc-ing. Fun times!

Woodakoodashooda4 votes

5 minutes is a generous amount of time for someone to reconnect to a game before abandoning ship because that's generally between 15%-25% of a match duration at this point.

But I like the idea.

Why be forced to stay aboard a sinking and burning ship by 2 people barring the most readily available emergency exits, saying "We're fine, we'll make it, don't worry, trust me"?

The Bad Touch3 votes

God I couldn't agree more.

Currently I just try to lose as fast as possible without the automated system banning me. It's a pita.

Papuga3 votes

Two thoughts,

I'd extend the 5min to maybe 10min. Maybe add a small comeback mechanic for people with legitimate disconnect issues. I've had my computer, an oldie, shut down and it take a significant time to reboot.

Introduce a scaling punishment for frequent leavers. Ie first time per month is a warning. Repeated offences get progressively harsher punishments. Thst way poeple with legitimate issues arnet caught in the net.

Heos001 votes

I think average game now lasts like 25-30 min. I would reduce that time, a teamfight can ruin the closest game because someone just stood still in the middle of a 5v5 tf at river tbh imo.

Papuga2 votes

{quoted}

I think average game now lasts like 25-30 min. I would reduce that time, a teamfight can ruin the closest game because someone just stood still in the middle of a 5v5 tf at river tbh imo.

Ah. True. That does put it into perspective. I come from an era where games would go 40-60min on usual so my perspective can be a bit off.

These days I try not to ranke in case it does crash. Less impact if it's a normals game though I do feel awful that it happened.

Zone of Endless3 votes

hell i'll even take overwatch's system. I'll take the LP penalty if it means i can leave and queue up for another game.

Inkling Commando2 votes

if this was implimented then you know it'd be spammed the shit out of and then it wouldnt be much of a game if the remaining 4 players left leaving the enemy thinking "where the hell is everybody?"

Subtle Asian5 votes

if you are spammed, then Riot can punish them for being toxic. They at least seem good at punishing toxicity.

Inkling Commando4 votes

you just said to allow players to leave scott free if a player dc's. a player dc's that player gets punished and the rest of the players get to leave scott free cause they don't want to play a losing battle.

Subtle Asian8 votes

And isn't that fair? The time of 4 players is more valuable than one. The first leaver should be punished and the 4 other members can leave after a fair amount of time to play another game THAT IS ACTUALLY FUN

Inkling Commando1 votes

pick a lane. do they or do they not get punished? if they don't then you know it will be spammed cause they just don't want to play and will even start crying telling one of their teammates (most likely the troller) to disconnect so they themselves can leave without punish while the troller gets punished for leaving, assuming they will listen to them which they probably won't. hell there won't even be remakes cause people will just straight up leave if there is an afk.

Flamingo Tango2 votes

I think that this would probably be better than someone trying to force surrender on 4 unwilling and being toxic and nasty, or everyone being able to move on instead of playing a 4v5. Having "surrender" be the only way to deal with AFKs winds up in some negativity...

I think 5 minutes is reasonable in a game like an ARAM, where 10 minutes and the game is already over, and at the point where I d/c because of my internet at 10 minutes, I would find it reasonable if I had to queue up again. This sounds like a decent solution to me. And if there is a system for afkers besides surrender, maybe Riot can only use surrender for cases in which "everyone decides to give up" versus "we have an AFK", and can adjust it properly to whatever is reasonable for surrender versus to whatever is reasonable to get out of a game with an AFK.

(ARAM currently has early surrender, and I recently played a game in which it was abused.)

Pika Fox2 votes

It would make no sense to allow people to leave early.

  1. Temporary internet/client issues are a thing, so youd need to wait 10-15min anyway to see if theyre coming back

  2. You queued for the game, and the person was connected long enough to make it past the remake phase.

Automated Riven1 votes

Games barely last 15 minutes as is ....

Pika Fox1 votes

Average is approx 30 min sooooo

CNV Nightstar2 votes

This is easily abusable for duo's so no. Anything that can be abused even slightly is always a no-go. There is not a possibility in the world that anything like this will happen.

ROYALR3IGN4 votes

{quoted}

This is easily abusable for duo's so no. Anything that can be abused even slightly is always a no-go. There is not a possibility in the world that anything like this will happen.

What's abusable here? The leaver still gets punished, and everyone on the team still receives a loss. It'd be as though someone left the game rn and everyone surrendered.

Can you explain it to me?

3TWarrior2 votes

riot's servers kick hundreds of people per day for one, maybe even thousands and they still get affected by leaverbuster so there's no doubt they would get "punished" by this

second, one of the main points of people wanting to end the game is because they have no chance of winning unless their opponents mess up hard or have the same disconnect issue, so, the system is put in place to protect the other players from a biased match with loss prevention / remake

AeroWaffle3 votes

{quoted}

This is easily abusable for duo's so no. Anything that can be abused even slightly is always a no-go. There is not a possibility in the world that anything like this will happen.

I don't think OP is saying that the people who leave wont receive a loss. They just wont receive the penalties for leaving.

Everyday Legends2 votes

I was held hostage in a game not too long ago. Our top-lane disconnected from the start, and I suggested a remake right away. My teammates were pretty much on board, until someone on the enemy team quickly said "Don't remake!" They went on to explain that their support-Ornn had disconnected, too, so it would still be an "even game". I still wanted to remake. I'm here to play 5 vs. 5, not 4 vs. 4, after all. My team, however, lets the game progress. Without fail, almost immediately after the window for remaking had closed, the Ornn miraculously reconnects. I wasn't shocked in the least. It's not so bad, though. The enemy team is at least acting like good sports--joking around, not pushing their waves too much, giving us jungle objectives, even dying on purpose occasionally (not that I condone it). The only enemy that wasn't on board with the plan was the Garen, pushing the open top lane and claiming towers. I still wanted out. This was not the game I signed up for. If we qualify for remake, why should I stick around under threat of punishment just because my teammates and the enemy team want to mess around for... 50 minutes?! But I stuck around and even (begrudgingly) played to the best of my abilities.

Long story short, I feel that a player should be permitted to leave if they qualify for remake. If the other members of the team want to stick around, that's their business.

Çhåryzård2 votes

Shouldn't even be considered a loss in ranked. Game is unfair to start with, it's not the other players' fault, count the game as a remake and take LP from the person that made it that way. Everyone else should suffer no penalty and the game should be scrapped.

Icy Hot Shoto1 votes

So, players should be allowed to leave with no penalty if one person leaves, but if they dare use it often they need to be punished?

Then what's the point of the suggestion? You basically can't use it without getting punished, making it completely useless. You'd be surprised how many times in a day someone could end up with an afk, either on purpose or because their client crashed/internet went out for a minute. I used to get them rather regularly in my games when I played all the time.

Subtle Asian7 votes

I think you missed my point completely.

Any person should be able to leave a 4 vs 5 without penalty after 5 minutes of the person disconnecting.

Right now, players have to play it out till the game is finished or a team forfeits even in events of 4 vs 5. Effectively the team of 4 is held hostage in a unfair and unfun game because they will be penalized for leaving.

In my view this is unfair to the other 4 players and I am proposing that anyone can leave after 5 minutes of the dc happening. This means legitimate disconnects (caused by internet outage or accidents) can reconnect and the game can play on. However after 5 minutes, its reasonably clear the person won't be returning and it is fair for anyone to leave.

Icy Hot Shoto2 votes

But then you said, in reply to someone, that if people do it too often they get punished. Making the entire thing useless as they basically can't leave after leaving once without the risk.

If someone refuses to surrender, than unfortunately there's nothing you can do but keep trying to play it out. For all you know, if you actually try to play it out you'll win, instead of giving up the moment one person leaves. Or at least have a fighting chance.

Also, I've had my internet go out for around 10 minutes before and I came back to the game. How is 5 minutes reasonably clear the person isn't coming back? If it's because their internet reset, it's not their fault their router/modem is taking forever to boot up. Imagine if they came back just before the last person leaves, and then suddenly they're in a 1v5 because that last person didn't notice. Who gets punished then?

Subtle Asian1 votes

I am not saying that you be punished if they do it too often. I don't know where you got that from. I wrote nothing about that.

And I have nothing against people not surrendering, that's their vote and I will respect that. That's not the issue I was raising in this post.

5 minutes seems a reasonable amount of time to reconnect in my view, it could be a different time but I feel the leave without punishment is the main mechanism that should be implemented.

In my view, the person who initially disconnected longer then 5 minutes should be the one punished.

FilDaFunk1 votes

This will create a GG at 0 mentality. What if everyone just leaves at the start?

EDIT: I should've been clear - what if the person would've reconnected at 1 minute? You're punishing minor internet problems, here.

IAintDarius4 votes

{quoted}

This will create a GG at 0 mentality. What if everyone just leaves at the start?

Then they get punished? What kind of logic are you trying to apply?

LunarFoxz1 votes

Scenario 1~ One dc, Team M1 "bye." Team M2 "Well its 3 v5 cy@" Team M3 & Team M5 "all chat We don't have a [Insert swear Here] Team" Scenario 2~ One person Dc's. Now the rest dc. Now its 5 vs 0. No fun right? What if one person rage quits then the other team members follow suit. The enemy now has the boring job of pushing turrets for the next 3 min because minions come in waves. They all dc'd. They all abandoned ship. This Allowance would PROMOTE Afking because one dc'd. Scenario 3~ Also what if the power goes out. They're forced to Dc. After say 15 min it comes back on. They reconnect, Only to find out their team Afked.

(Also once a thresh dc'd in ranked. 20-ish min later he comes back, and, get this, Carries us to victory. If this was allowed, that probably wouldn't have happened)

Häßlich1 votes

In each of those scenarios, it's not AFK. It's the rest of the dc'd person's team has also left, resulting in the game ending when the 5th person leaves. In your 3rd scenario and Thresh example, those are so rare as to not justify the vast majority of the time it's just a pointlessly drawn out game that is still boring for both sides because it's not an even match. All you're doing by forcing people to stay in game is wasting their time on an unfun match.

Jaegaer1 votes

I feel League should adopt the Dota system in handling leavers. Their system allows players to leave without penalty only after a couple of minutes have passed after a person has not reconnected after disconnecting.

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