Suggestion to fix jungle issues

Sodeb Lacudomite·3/22/2019, 1:03:19 PM·26 votes·11,634 views

Okay so here it is: Problem: In current meta, junglers are very important and often the best jungler wins the game.

Riot current attempt to fix this problem: They nerfed jungle camp exp, gold, spawn time, especially in the early game. However, this did not help: junglers are still deciding games, but playing jungler is now frustrating and less popular because it feels like playing support (less experience, less gold, unless you snowball on ganks kills or you steal lane cs)

What I suggest to fix this: Revert jungle nerf (reduce camp spawn time, revert gold and exp nerf), so jungle will feel more satisfying and you can chose farm or gank More importantly, the key point: allow to give more vision! Jungle are strong because vision is weak. You can only put 1 control ward, and normal wards have long cooldown and lots of tool to get destroyed. Jungle is strong because vision is weak. Slightly buffing vision would nerf jungler influence, and reward good laner vision strategy. No need to do a big buff, just a slight buff (idea is going this way instead of nerfing jungle camps again and again)

37 Comments

Sir Saltarin3/22/2019, 1:28:21 PM15 votes

Buffing vision would mean a slower pace game specially on pro play, I sure would love to see it after that much snowball meta.

RAKCUS3/22/2019, 1:04:24 PM7 votes

Seems reasonable.

SweedishGunner3/22/2019, 2:41:02 PM5 votes

I'd like jungle camps to be more punishing somewhat as well. I remember when nearly every champ had to back after first clear but these days junglers are coming out of the jungle after first clear at full HP it's insane.

The thigh guy3/22/2019, 8:41:53 PM4 votes

But but but. If we have vision again, the assassins can’t braindead bush camp to insta gib as much. :c

Mavëríck3/22/2019, 7:29:21 PM4 votes

I remember like 2 months ago I suggested not even nerfing the jungle and just giving everyone an extra free ward that lasts longer at the start of the game. This would have made level 2 ganking MUCH more difficult and encouraged jungle farming and jungler counter play without ruining everything. I was down voted. Now you all see. Just wow this community...

Karn Bishop3/22/2019, 7:47:31 PM3 votes

Jungler here, remove vision plant, remove healing fruit plant, remove scuttle exp bonuses and transfer them back to the jungle camps, lower the recharge on yellow wards by 5 seconds globally, return the warding jungle item, return smite buff smite bonuses on camps, remove the exp and gold falloff in the jungle by increasing spawn rate of camps so that missing out on clearing them costs you gold and exp rather then just straight up not allowing anyone to effectively farm the jungle.

Both the healing and vision plants cause major issues in the jungle which allows for too much vision clearing control and recovery to champions who simply don't need it.

In my opinion the only time jungle was healthy was when there was a tradeoff between clearing camps and ganking, it also made counter jungling a worthwhile thing to do as leaving a camp up with a single minion would delay the junglers gold and exp gains.

ModWulf Helhammer3/22/2019, 3:15:54 PM3 votes

If the jungler is still going to be too high level (remember: they should be about equal with bot lane, not a solo lane. Reverting the XP nerfs and things like the scuttle change go back to putting jungle even with solo XP), giving more vision isn’t going to fix anything. In fact, that will makes things even more of a “better jungler wins” scenario, especially in high elo, because the jungle has the more opportunity to affect team vision with deep wards and clearing.

Jungle has had the privilege of being one of the strongest positions for several seasons now. Of course when they get nerfed it’s going to feel frustrating to play.

Riot doesn’t want just constant farming junglers. For one, farm heavy junglers cause significant pain points at lower elos (and while yes, Riot primarily focuses balance at higher levels, they can’t leave things too outrageous on the low end). Secondly, if there’s an even choice between farming and ganking, nearly every jungler is going to choose to farm, as there’s next to no risk. Riot wants there to be player interaction, because a) it’s easier to balance, and b) ensures that things actually happen. A late game jungler that scales at the same rate as a gank heavy early gamer, but with little to no enemy interaction is not healthy for the game.

OSAY93/23/2019, 4:25:41 AM3 votes

t h e y d o n t r e a d t h e f o r u m

GinoSoldier3/22/2019, 3:37:02 PM3 votes

If you want more vision as jungle; try playing a tanky one, and grab a relic shield. Whenever you pop into a lane, get your stacks before leaving when you can.

I can't vouch for the viability of this, but the idea seems sound.

Always angry tbh3/22/2019, 7:35:43 PM2 votes

Remember when you couldn't get sweeper at the start of the game? Just revert that and force people to clear vision with Control wards. Make Sweeper available at lvl 6 or 7.

Always angry tbh3/22/2019, 6:36:39 PM2 votes

Yeah, I actually quit playing jungle recently. I don't feel comfortable getting ping spammed and hated by 9 other people every match. We are forced to play snowballing champs but are automatically behind. So we need to take from our laners but they get mad and sometimes properly troll me because I do the job Riot decided to assign me to. I can't adjust to this. Look, I make it work. I can do this. Last few times I tried I snowballed extremely hard. But it's just not fun when everybody hates me for doing my job. Let me repeat this. I literally get trolled by my teammates because I need to take their exp and gold or else I'll fall behind and become useless. I've had so many games where I had twice as much CS as the enemy jungler because I counterjungled them but they are still the same level as me because they got a little exp from lanes. In what world is this OK?

Not only that, since we now NEED to get A LOT done early or we'll fall behind we get screwed over so badly when we can not interact with mid lane. Which is very common because the current mid lane meta is extremely difficult to gank. Zed Ahri (Ahri is so ridiculous. Long range long lasting hard CC and THREE dashes. Also she can farm easily from afar. Unless she fucks up or you 4 man her you can not gank her. At all. If she blows her ult and has a brain she plays safe until it's almost up. If you go mid again but she plays safe you waste your time, which you already have too little off as a jungler nowadays.) LeBlanc Yasuo (This one is easier to gank but he still has a windwall and a ridiculous amount of mobility. Oh and consistent cc that can cancel your engage.) Sylas. Kek. Ha ha.

Most junglers have a very hard time interacting with these midlaners. Back then there were only a few of them and most of them were in a bad spot. I started playing mid recently just because of this. And oh, since I think as a jungler I hardly die to ganks. In my first 10 Akali games they got like one or two succesful ganks on me. IN TEN GAMES. I won lane in almost all of them and when I didn't I still hardly died and came back because it was literally impossible for anyone to kill me because I played it safe. Honestly, why can mid shut junglers down so easily by just denying them any form of interaction??? The lane is in the middle of the map, it's what junglers cross the most.

thornmailed3/23/2019, 4:23:45 AM2 votes

Well you just spoke out the key point. Riot has been systematically gutting vision since season 4. First they introduced Oracle Lens (which is not too bad),but then they only allowed each person to purchase 3 wards, then wards can only be provided by support’s items, then they introduceditem 3147 , then they removed Signstone and Tracker’s knife, and then Oracle Lens was buffed so that level 1 can buy the upgraded version.

True Garen3/24/2019, 11:28:04 AM2 votes

You realize that vision was nerfed by roughly 1/3 in preseason. They could just revert part of the nerf. And/or bring back Green Smite.

Bears Dont Care3/22/2019, 4:03:52 PM1 votes

We are still doing this better jg wins meme? Mmkay.

heroikc3/22/2019, 2:26:32 PM1 votes

I'd try to delay effective level two ganks, personally...but that's pretty hard to do with jungle.

Always angry tbh3/25/2019, 5:24:36 PM1 votes

Just buf wards a bit, don't let anyone buy Sweeper until lvl 6 (or even 9 but that'd hit the game too hard right now to be honest.) and then buff jungle a bit because we'd need to buy control wards to actually control vision pre 6 (or 9).

RekSai CoffeeCo3/22/2019, 2:22:59 PM1 votes

Reverting scuttle changes would help a great bit as well.

OrangeMarine3/23/2019, 1:55:27 PM1 votes

they need to increase jungle XP or camp respawn rate. They can do it little at a time; I dont think junglers should be even level with mid/top, but at this time they're keeping pace with bot lane. So it's common u are 2 levels below a solo lane; at that point it's too risky to gank u might just feed a kill if ur not 100% hp.

we all know that game that for whatever reason u just have no good ganks to make. so you're forced to afk farm even though you want to gank. Unless ur a godlike farmer with aoe, you end up soooooo far behind in XP. Even then you will be at best -1 level from solo laner

RainbowIcee3/23/2019, 5:27:06 PM1 votes

i think they need to make jungle more fun, idk if you guys have seen the statistic but pre-season jungle was the least picked role. It is honestly very boring to be a jungler right now. Ofcourse opinions differ but generally it feels a lot more genetic than any other role. The freedom is just on paper.

Bears Dont Care3/23/2019, 6:59:57 PM1 votes

BeTtEr JuNgLe WiNs.

So does the better mid, top, and bot. Statistically, people who win morr are better. This idea that a singular role is wholly responsible for determinjng the outcome of a game is ignorant. You can be the best jungler in the world, but if your team cannot utilize the gains you obtain for them, you still lose.

Junglers inherently are an early game role, and trying to change it to be the opposite means making it a farm meta, which the forums hate as well.

You cannot bake the cake and eat it too and collect a profit.

BigFBear3/22/2019, 7:24:37 PM1 votes

there is enough vision in the game with all these wards items which grant vision and runes which grant vision.

AetherArising3/22/2019, 7:43:32 PM1 votes

The difference isnt so much “better jungle wins people the game” anymore, but rather “worse one usually loses the whole game” - snowballing has gone from ”a few champs can get really going and carry the game” to “literally everyone and their grandma has carry power, so the team that doesnt all powercarry loses”

Problem is mostly the nonstop xp nerfs after xp nerfs after MORE XP NERFS. Guess what happened to lead to these past few seasons? Nerfs every season to jungle XP, and no nerfs to camp-heavy ganker champs ;\

#bringbackfunjungle