What do people actually want?

Laughing Fish··4 votes·395 views

People on these boards complain constantly about which Champions need to be nerfed. And yet, when a champion actually DOES get nerfed, the same people will turn around and complain that Rito is butchering the game. This, to me, raises this question: What champion would actually be considered balanced? It seems that every champion is either "overpowered" or "underpowered".

17 Comments

Ash Lockheart1 votes

Honestly. Most players want to not have afkers/trolls/feeders. How ever most player fail to understand they make those players because they talk crap in chat. But in the end champs get nerfed, some get buffs. Never the ones we want, but that is just what happens. Riot does what they want always. Never what the players what. They won't admit that, but its the truth. They know the sona nerf was not needed, but they wanted. They knew veigar did not really need a rework, but they wanted to make it about skill, and hardship above all else.

RogueWill1 votes

In my opinion this champions are balanced:

Tank: Sejuani Tanky Support: Leona/Allistar Utility Support: Janna Bruiser JG: Xin Zhao

the other roles I don't play enough champions to give you an opinion

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Sejuani is about to be the best jungler in the game. You'll reconsider, I promise.

Janna is basically never balanced, but nobody seems to mind too much because she doesn't make kills.

RogueWill1 votes

Sejuani is the nest Tank Jungler in the game. I'll give you that but not so much as best Jungler. There are many other JG that woudl do a much better job than sejuani. And as I said she is balanced, she in only the best due to the other tanks junglers being so underpowered.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Ok, I guess I need to explain this. Sejuani is a pretty good jungler right now. Somewhere between 5th and 10th best jungler. She scales with health and primarily struggles with clear times.

She's about to get Cinderhulk, which is going to give her +25% health scaling and a clear time boosting aura. Juggernaut was weak enough that she often bought Magus. This item change is going to be absolutely gigantic for her, and she was already close to competitive.

She won't just be the best tank jungler. She is about to rule solo queue. Poro slobber will be everywhere.

RogueWill1 votes

Then she WILL be overpowered, on this current patch she is balanced.

The OP question was what champions are balanced. A champion can be balanced and still be among the top tier thanks of the way their were designed or their kit. Most of the other champions on the jungle just happens to be underpowered and that's why she rise to the top, in terms of number and counterplay she is well balance. She still struggles with early ganks and can't really defend from invades, she still has a low mana pool that hindrance her Q around the jungle unless you have blue. The clearance isn't actually bad since you have plenty Aoe but some camps shouldn't be attempted without smite as it will reduce her HP considerably (Gromp and raptors to be precise). Most of her power revolves around her mid game and the picks you get and the possible teamfight you can provoke late game (proven that your team can back you up with some damage)

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Sejuani is considerably better than the average random jungler. Wouldn't call her balanced today. I agree she has actual weaknesses, which means it'll be healthier for her to be the best jungler than say Vi or Lee Sin.

Here are some junglers I would regard as balanced: Chogath Diana Maokai Udyr Nasus

Predictably enough, you don't see much of them. This is a good proxy for balance -- balanced champions are invisible to your eyes; if you notice a champion, it's probably not balanced.

RogueWill1 votes

Ok. based on that you don't see balance champions.

Here is each Champion popularity: Diana 2.13% Sejuani 2.31%' Maokai 2.36% Chogath 3.4% Udyr 3.51%

As you can see all of these champions you considered balanced are more popular than the unbalance Sejuani except Diana that is well played by Diana mains only. Also all the champion you mentioned are viable laners so they aren't really adjusted to the jungle as they are for their respective lane and hence the are and should feel less powerful than a champion that is only viable in the jungle.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

{quoted}

Ok. based on that you don't see balance champions.

Yes, that's generally correct. People tend to pick the strongest champions a lot. Balanced champions usually have a low single digit pick rate.

As you can see all of these champions you considered balanced are more popular than the unbalance Sejuani except Diana that is well played by Diana mains only.

I don't know why Sejuani hasn't caught on amongst the masses yet. She's strong. Her pick rate is increasing rapidly in diamond; currently at 8% and trending to be 12% by the end of the week.

Also all the champion you mentioned are viable laners so they aren't really adjusted to the jungle as they are for their respective lane and hence the are and should feel less powerful than a champion that is only viable in the jungle.

You're suggesting that Maokai should be a weaker jungler because he can top lane? I don't like that idea at all. We'd end up with a world where only single role champions would see competitive play.

Champions shouldn't be allowed to be OP at anything, but champions that are viable in multiple roles are a good thing for the game. More versatility means more play variety and more interesting pick and ban phases.

RogueWill1 votes

I'm saying he is weaker because he can top. Not long ago maokai was redesigned (a few changes in his ult) and as a result he became a beast top lane which forced riot into nerfed him into his current states. Similar has happened to champions like Lulu who got nerfed because of top and mid lulu and not specifically support lulu. Champions are normally balanced around their most strong role, unfortunately for maokai that is not jungle, you can't afford to buff him for the jungle because he will become a horror on the lanes. That's why champions with double or triple lane viability usually feels weaker (exception is nidalee)

SmokingPuffin1 votes

{quoted}

I'm saying he is weaker because he can top. Not long ago maokai was redesigned (a few changes in his ult) and as a result he became a beast top lane which forced riot into nerfed him into his current states.

I think Maokai's top lane strength is accidental. The rework was aimed at the jungle, and to my mind made Maokai into a healthy and balanced champion in that role.

Champions are normally balanced around their most strong role, unfortunately for maokai that is not jungle, you can't afford to buff him for the jungle because he will become a horror on the lanes.

I agree with this take in general. You often have a collateral damage problem with multi-role champions.

In the specific case of Maokai, I fail to see his nerfs since rework as anything of significant interest. W does 13% damage instead of 15%, and the R damage cap you never reach anyway is a bit lower.

That's why champions with double or triple lane viability usually feels weaker (exception is nidalee)

I think the opposite is true. The champions with multiple lane viability tend to be among the strongest in the game. Current competitive examples include: Nidalee JarvanIV Annie Corki Lissandra Morgana

I think this list trends towards "you know, these guys are just plain OP".

Kingsgrave1 votes

The community doesn't decide what is OP or UP or Balanced just because they are vocal. They are most certainly a vocal minority and most of the time heavily biased. There will always be people yelling at Riot because its entertaining to do so.

Make a nerf to a mage and the mid laning bias parade shows up. Make a nerf to a top laner and the top laning bias parade shows up. Make a nerf to an assassin and the assassin bias parade shows up. etc.,

Solaxo1 votes

Maybe not nerfing already weak champs? And not being hypocritical?

Solidair31 votes

Karma

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Very approximately, the champions nobody talks about are balanced.

Let me offer some examples: Lux Kayle Skarner KogMaw Chogath

Honestly, most of the champions in the game are in good spot on balance. The top 20 and bottom 20 are the problem spots -- said top 20 dominates the LCS, and the bottom 20 is mostly champions Riot doesn't want to be balanced. That still leaves ~80 champions that are really doing fine. Not great, just k.

Nucleophilic atk1 votes

I thought old Veigar was pretty balanced. Only reason people started to complain was because he could be used against mobility. Obviously nothing in the game is allowed to beat mobility, so boom.

ActuallyArrow1 votes

I want to not be bad at this game.

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