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Why is Veigar still gutted?

Obsidian Sun·3/11/2015, 8:58:48 PM·6 votes·1,043 views
Patch 5.5 notes

I read Patch 5.5 notes in hopes that Riot would at least take into account where they went wrong with Veigar 's "buff", but from what I read, they clearly assume there is no real big issues with him other than his missile speed or a small delay in his stun.

His Q being a skill shot makes it possible to be evaded and demands frequent repositioning to exploit that second stack, which by the way, Veigar scaling stacks was never an issue in the first place. His biggest weakness was the cost and cooldown of all his spells which crippled him in being able to trade effectively and forced him to back really early in comparison to other mid laners like LeBlanc and Kassadin.

I would prefer Q being a single AP stacking, homing missile (like it used to be) so that Veigar secured kills more efficiently than simply let the enemy champion summoner 4 out of the range of the skill shot.

Just take into account that as Veigar , you tend to drop every spell on a single enemy champ to ensure the delete is guaranteed. But due to the sudden hit to his R and delay in his E, what if that enemy champ survives with a small sliver of health that Q can easily deal with? Just cast Q right? Okay, cast it to secure!

NOPE!

Enemy champ just summoner 4es forward or to the side and are now out of range for your Q to finish it.

Also the delay to his E makes the stun an unreliable "secure the kill" and "God, they're trying to dog-pile me in mid, I need to escape quickly!" mechanic.

It still makes him a sitting duck incapable of defending himself let alone securing a kill.

15 Comments

ModAcademy Kayn3/11/2015, 9:26:51 PM2 votes

So, Veiger is a mage. Zed is an assassin. Zed can 100-1 someone if he does it right, be it very hard. Even Zed needs to poke a bit.

Mages, though, they follow a much stronger sense of poke till low then go in for the kill. Past Veiger functioned more of an assassin, deleting someone before they could respond. Last time I checked, that's not a mage. That's an assassin like quality. Riot even said that his 100-1 wasn't healthy and they wanted to change it. Honestly, they did what they wanted but it did put him into the ground.

With the new buffs though, TS on q and the stopping of movement on his cage, IMO this can be better. Take into people with dashes, LB, Ahri, some adc's. They have a dash, but with the new mechanic, a risky dash to get out might end up in a stun. It may not be that huge but its more of a buff then you think.

That's my two cents at least.

Byakuya Kuchiki3/11/2015, 10:09:51 PM1 votes

because when a champion's role is mage and hes an assassin he needs tob e cahnged, he wasnt gutted damn stop crying that fact he could 100-0 tanks is stupid now he cant 100-0 anyone thats how mages work

Gama Masa3/11/2015, 9:08:52 PM1 votes

you my friend are stupid veigar is where he is suppose to be.

Meep Man3/11/2015, 10:55:11 PM1 votes

We can't judge yet. Luden's Echo is a pretty good item on him so we might need to actually TRY the patch before we say anything.

BuCkeT SeiZureS3/12/2015, 2:19:32 AM1 votes

His q is less reliable and had its cooldown raised (completely pointless nerf. making it a skill shot was good. the cooldown thing was dumb). It allows for a double hit, but its mana cost is so high, damage so low and veigar's passive so unnoticeable, that the double hit only comes into play much later in the game. I think the biggest problem here is that they continue to ignore his biggest problems. He needs some form of instant CC. I would rather them raise the cast time to .5 and make it instantly appear than what they did here. Honestly, I think that they need to re-invent veigar a little more. I would say that they should nerf all his base damages and raise all his ap ratios, especially that on his ult. I think they should turn veigar into the late game god they want him to be. Make his passive be that his mana regen scales off of AP as well. Make early game weak, but late game a real threat.

Anyways, I think that they really need to do something with his W. at the moment, it is rather dumb. Make it slow and lower the delay on its drop or something. and give him back his damage on his ult. If they do that, then his E will actually be in a good enough place to work with his kit.

TLDR: Veigar will be in a great place if they make his W have some sort of CC to it (slow, no hard CC) and lower its drop time, give him back damage on his ultimate, and make his passive scale into late game (scale off AP. currently it is not really good at any point). If they do that and keep his E as it is, he will be in a great spot.

Trídent3/13/2015, 3:35:09 AM1 votes

Pretty much given up waiting for Veigar to be fixed. I hoped they would fix it before the changes made it to live. I was hoping they would fix it in 5.5. I was hoping he would have his E fixed in the 5.6 PBE cycle. I know it just started.... but It's just taking too long. Riot needs to make sure the changes are good before they actually make it live.

Zarxis3/11/2015, 10:35:11 PM1 votes

Veigar's main theme has always been his single-target burst. He sacrifices mobility and survivability for the ability to single out and kill one (non-tanky) target when all of his abilities are off cooldown... Not anymore, apparently. I won't try to argue about his E's former instant-stun capability. Riot can't be convinced that it was a healthy pattern, despite the fact that Veigar was a balanced, if not slightly weak, champion in terms of viability.

New Veigar cannot reliably burst anyone from full health unless he's farmed to the point that he has so much bonus AP that his ultimate can burst anyone from full health without the benefits of DFG or the pre-nerf AP ratio. I have never seen a Veigar that was fed to the point that he could ult-to-kill anyone besides a glass-cannon AP mid that happened to feed him to the point that he should've virtual diabetes.

Current Veigar doesn't have the tools to reach his former potential in terms of his ultimate (more Q farm is nice, but we're missing a large chunk of Primordial Burst's AP ratio + R.I.P. DFG), and current Veigar also lacks any tool that would make him viable in terms of the current state of the game. Old Veigar's instant stun wasn't the healthiest gameplay mechanic, but it was the only thing that allowed him to survive and land his W. He has never had any way to deal with being ganked or even simply being harassed besides his stun, which is now unreliable. If the dash-stopping mechanic goes live in 5.5, he'll be able to cage dash-using champions, but he still won't be able to land his W on them unless they stun themselves voluntarily.

Unless Riot gives him some real compensation for the removal of his only survival and engage tools (mobility, less W delay/more W AOE/etc., another form of CC, etc.), he'll never be what he used to be (relatively viable).

I have little hope for that occurring after seeing Riot's small buffs in 5.5's notes and the original nerf's "compensation." The increases to his ranges make him seem more like a poke/siege mage; his W is still basically useless without allied help; his E is useless against champions with blinks; his net damage is ridiculously low compared to pre-nerf Veigar (no DFG, lower ult AP ratio, W requires enemy to stun itself or be subjected to Veigar's allies' CC).