Hello to you person who reads this, back to season 5 i was made to be a huge 
player and i heard that 
will get "un-rework" so i wanna have your opinion about an "un-reworked" , do you think he will comeback on botlane like before or he will be too strong for actual top tiers marksmans like
or
? Thanks for responding , see you.
DunkinNoobs25 votesThere's 0 chance that Riot reverts the best rework from the Marksman update. Graves may be too strong but the rework concept is amazing and adds something truly unique to the game.
IPromiseTomorrow3 votesYa you're right but then there's that other side of the rework. Graves counters melee champs so hard by doing more damage as they get close. He can chunk them as they get closer and he has some zoning with his smoke screen. His dash let's him stack an extra 30-120 armor and magic resist.
His early burst is hilariously huge. That's the other side of Graves. Just have to put this seeing as it's relevant to changing him or not.
DunkinNoobs7 votesThen that's something for the balance team to handle, not the champ design team.
Keevalroy1 votesUnique doesn't always mean good.
Deneviel8 votesFun that an adc works in every lane except bot XD
Stephen The G1 votesno he is imo possible the only champ that works well in EVERY role even support because we all know death is the best cc i take him bot sometimes and hes really good with his q wave clear really easy to push out lane get them to go to their tower
The Oasis1 votesKayle works every role and lane too. :^)
MrryZ1 votesBut Kayle cant 1v1 the entire roster
Stephen The G1 votestrue dat
Veigarisgod18 votesNo. The new graves is incredibly unique and brings something different. If he becomes too much of an issue, then he will be changed.
Woodakoodashooda2 votesNo. The new graves is incredibly unique and brings something different. If he becomes too much of an issue, then he will be changed.
https://storage.googleapis.com/vidsums/3d969b9a-93c9-44c9-ae75-f93216043f8c_text.gif
2nd most picked jungle with the 5th highest win rate of jg.
Veigarisgod13 votes
KatCraft2 votes5th highest winrate of junglers out of 6 meta junglers?
Kled Man Walking6 votessee, a big reason why they're reverting (most of) the kog update is that, while his update is already unhealthy from a gameplay standpoint, he also had a specific niche before the update that gives him his own unique identity.
whereas pre-update graves was basically just a shorter range lucian.
and while he might seem overloaded or arguably unhealthy nowadays, the fact that he has his own identity now lets riot hit him in the specific spots that are making him too strong if necessary.
is he taking too little damage in the jungle? nerf his ability to kite monsters by getting rid of the knockback on his passive. is he dealing too much dps when he should be burstier? extend his reload time, or make his reload time scale less with attack speed, or remove his ability to load in a shot when dashing.
see what i mean? it allows riot to hit more than just numbers and lets graves players feel like they're different from other carry junglers
Wolfram Oxford3 votesI would like to see that. Right now Graves is just too strong, and I think it would be easier to balance him, or even just update him if he had his rework reverted.
TequilaZombie3 votesGraves was reworked for 2 factors:
1- He and Lucian had the exact same niche. You would only pick the one with better numbers at the moment, as picking the other brought no benefits. One of them would have to be reworked, as they couldn't coexist.
2- He had one of the coolest themes out of all ADCs, but his gameplay failed to deliver it. Lucian, on the other hand, fit his theme quite well.
There is no chance Riot will ever rework him. They might nerf him, but un-reworking is not an option.
Wolfram Oxford1 votesPerhaps re-rework or heavily nerf.
TequilaZombie1 votesI'd say Riot is more likely to distribute across the board nerfs for him.
Possibly reduced damage on his Q, bigger CD on his Dash and lower amounts of armor given. I doubt they'd change his smokescreen or ult too much.
EDIT: Now that I think of it, they might give him a slightly bigger range on his autos, so he can be a bit more damage oriented.
Wolfram Oxford1 votesI think giving him an extremely lower base attack speed and increasing his reload time while increasing his scalings with attack speed scalings would be a good start. That way crit and attack speed is more enticing than heavy AD.
TequilaZombie1 votesI think heavy AD is the way to go on Graves. I mean, it's a shotgun. He should be hitting hard as fuck with slow shots. Not hitting reasonably hard somewhat quickly. In fact, he was already doing the later when he got reworked.
Wolfram Oxford1 votesI don't think you got my point. I think they should make this change so he is more focused on auto attacking rather than using auto attacks as a supplementary damage source. Which is why you would also have to nerf his ratios.
TequilaZombie1 votesHe will never have Autos as his main source of damage without losing his thematic. At least not without some rework. Making his pellet count scale with crit AND attack speed could be a solution. Giving him a Jihn like treatment.
Anything shorter than that, he either gets really weak abilities that don't do much and lower his DPS (basicly a waste of mana) or he gets too focused on his slow auto attacks that don't hit as hard as they should, because now he needs to shoot fast (as there is a reason why ADCs buy AS and Crit to multiply their AD instead of raw AD).
Glory to God3 votesOh yes I really missed the sometimesbetterbutmoslyworseLucian
Feed Daddy3 votesDo yall even remember what graves used to be like.
He'd just randomly start 1 shotting you at some point kappa and his abilities had almost no cast time.
Loki Atmamia2 votesTrue ^^
option paralysis2 votesDoubt they're gonna do that, but I'd like it too. That reload mechanic is just too clunky for me, I can't play him.
OneMustFall2 votesYeah I miss the old Graves. I got him right a little while before they reworked him and really enjoyed playing him then he got reworked and I haven't been able to play him since. FeelsBad
The Taco Kat2 votesI loved old Graves a ton as well, but they will never change him back in a million years. They said his playstyle is too much like Lucian's, which I still fail to see. I maintained a 58.5% win rate on Graves last season, but a 38% on Lucian this season. If they were really that similar, my win rate shouldn't really be as far negative as it is.
I mained Katarina since late season 3, Graves since early season 5, played 3 Graves games this season, and soon I won't be playing Katarina either. I'm really upset about these updates.
Theorchero2 votesRiot loves his "shotgun" mechanics too much.
But I fucking wish he would get reverted.
Fuck Graves.
LatetotheRace2 votesI 100% want to see the NON drain-tank Graves back. This new iteration of him is beyond stupid and unbalanced. (Pretty much all of the downvotes are from plebs wanting to carry themselves with the busted drain tank.)
Wolfram Oxford1 votesI don't like Graves, but tanks pretty much deserve to face toxic ADs with how strong they are and have always been.
LatetotheRace1 votesI'm more than happy to see a damage decrease across the whole board. That being said, graves is no longer a marksman but a ranged fighter similar to gnar.
Wolfram Oxford1 votesGnar is focused on providing CC and split push capabilities, Graves is just a ranged AD assassin that is better at staying alive and auto attacking than the average Joe.
IcyPepper2 votesdo you think he will comeback on botlane like before
If anything, I don't think that should be the main reason for a reverted rework. Just because he's a marksman does not mean he should be forced into the bot lane. If he did get reverted, he would likely come back, but I think it's fine if he's mostly played jungle as long as he's not an outlier (looking at the statistics, he's performing well but not too well).
MLDzXnRRR1 votesADCs are played down there only if they are good this patch. You can pick graves any time jungle or top. Quinn is also trash bot.
PaladinNO1 votesGraves reverted rework?
I came here expecting to see a post about "Graves reverted back to when he had a cigar". I became pleasently surprised.
