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The Meta: Are Junglers Necessary?

aftimelord··3 votes·915 views

This shall be a little post about the necessary nature of junglers. Feel free to take the No Jung Challenge and make sure to try it out for yourself!

A few weeks ago, I played a game through the godly Team Builder and set up a no jung game. The end result: Glorious. So the question of the necessary-ness of junglers is what we lose/gain from junglers.

What we gain

We gain the ability to surprise pushed lanes with GANKS, the glorious things that end in either death or disappointment (depending on the timing) We gain the passive nature of these junglers (WW's ultimate, Rengar's invisibility, etc.) And, since junglers usually pack their Smites, assistance with dragon and Baron Nashor

What We Lose

We lose, considering the meta, a helping hand in either mid or top. We risk invasion in which the jungler gets counter-jungled or attacked in the jungle of their side of the map We put a weight on the shoulder of the jungler to possibly take charge and risk his own death through ganks and/or pushing

So what does this have to do with LoL meta? In the meta, usually you have a marksman down bot (Vayne, Varus, Caitlyn) and a support (Thresh, Nami, Braum) and in Mid, you have either an Assassin (Zed) or a mage (Veigar). And top, you have one marksman or fighter (TRYNDAMERE)

There is also a side-meta that leaves two people up top, which risks bot being overarched with the possible base-meta of the other team.

THE CHALLENGE: PLAY A GAME WITHOUT A JUNGLER, 2 TOP, 2 BOT, 1 MID

8 Comments

Teenbus13 votes

You're losing track of why the current meta developed: gold flow. Unfortunately, there's only so much gold to be gotten on the map; capitalizing efficiently on this gold is what makes a team comp effective. When you put two champions top, who gets the gold from creeps? If your answer is both, then a traditional top-laner will quickly outscale you. If your answer is one, then you essentially have two supports, i.e. two champions with little income with minimal buying power. In addition, by having a jungler, you are able to capitalize on all of the gold sitting in jungle camps. Without a jungle, that gold goes untapped, and the enemy team, once again, quickly outscales you. There are other ways the meta is structured to provide maximum gold for a team, but these are the main ways a jungler helps.

ploki1229 votes

To add on to this, the current professional playstyle is based extremely around gold and experience management. This is why, when teams lane swaps, you will have a top laners kill jungle camps. The gold in his lane is not obtainable, and the xp is extremely risky.

I somewhat disagrees with some of the points op made. Imo, what you mainly gain by having a jungler is additional gold/xp flow and then the constant MIA threat. Whenever someone goes for a play, he has to wonder if the jungler is close. If chances are that he is, he cannot go for the play. You also gain heavy vision control. By always having someone roaming around the map, you make sure that you have a mobile ward up at all time that may or may not spot enemy roamers and/or traces of them (missing camps and spell effects). Next, you also gain neutral control. Your jungler is in charge of securing buffs that are on your half of the map, and dragons/barons when possible; sending a 2nd person top means that whenever they go for dragon, they're 4v3.

What you gain by skipping on a jungler is zoning potential top. The fact that you're 2v1 means that you can wither slowpush and zone the enemy from getting as much gold/experience as possible or you can fast push and 1/2-man roam/invade. Good players however will be able to farm relatively well 1v2 (relatively is the keyword here), and once the jungler comes around, you'Re gonna be inevitably outleveled (which bears enormous weight veery early and at crucial points like level 3, 6 and 11). Also, if you don't deny the enemy top laner fast enough, he will slowly pose an increasing death threat to the weaker of your 2 top laners. If he can get kills 1v2, you've lost everything.

If I ever was to drop my jungler, I would probably run 2-1-2 with 2 bruisers bot and adc + support top, since the 2 bruisers would be able to pose constant threat to the squishier ADC (and/or support) and ranged ADC and possibly support makes it easier to zone 2v1. Another idea is to put 2 mages mid and let the top 1v1. Both mages have some great pick potential and can thus roam to side lanes/jungle to get picks off. However, putting 2 mids make it incredibly easy to ward off and thus prevent the gained pressure, and since the lane is terribly short, it's nearly impossible to zone the enemy.

Earl Eulrich3 votes

The problem remains...jungle camps are ressources, if you don´t use them and the opponent does he´s at an advantage in gold and xp. So for a "no-jungle" to work out you must make sure to deny the opponent more ressources than you deny from yourself that way...

The last time sth. like that worked out for me had been a game where we just played no Sololanes at all, but just roamed with 3man inside our topsidejugnle, the opponents jungle (can´t fight a 3man invade early on) and than ganked their lanes with 2-3people, splitting as sonn as we pressured someone away/killed someone to farm and than regrouped to pressure again once they would be back. But you need a highly mobile squad with a strong early to make this pay of (we used riven/lee/udyr).

ArtoriusIV3 votes

(Explanation of why the meta is the way it is begins)

You have successfully identified what the lanes are and who is there, let me know why it is the way it is. Mid lane is the shortest lane and so gets the most exp, this is why you put your APC there, this is because APC scale most effectively off levels, why they are in a solo lane. They also tend to have poor ability to escape, so being in the lane that is simplest to get to a tower is safest for them. Bot lane has the squishiest ADC, who builds pure damage off the gold they farm, the support goes bot for two reasons, one to protect the ADC, and to help control dragon. This objective is one that will be fought over earliest, why two people are sent to help protect it. Top lane has the tank who can stay in lane almost indefinitely. They also get the money they need to tank up, which is ultimately their goal. The jungler leaves the top lane open for the tank to farm, is an MIA threat and gathers the gold and exp from jungle camps. The junglers job is also to help secure buffs, Dragons and Barons.

If you remove the jungler from your team and put two top, their jungler gets four buffs, so faster exp, more gold, they also now have a simple lane to gank when they need/want to. Your top laners become each a half of the opposing top laner, and this can be dangerous, from my own games I have as a solo top laner made the game a 4v3 by just staying in my lane, and since we had the extra man in teamfights, they couldn't touch us, and since I could take their tower if either left, they both had to stay, else feed me or give over objectives. This is an issue that results from lack of jungler. The other issue is that with two top, if bot lane starts destroying, there is little hope for a successful roam to stop them, the reduced cost of warding, due to lack of MIA threat, is extra money in their pockets for all players because one man can be seen at all times.

Worgslarg1 votes

What you lose from not having a jungler is a roaming lane support, and use of the jungle for gold/exp. without the jungle, your team would be behind in gold and exp, and thus have a harder time winning.

Now, i could see a support that would clear one side of the jungle, then roam back to lane to help the solo laner, think a pet jungler, leaving your team with 2 semi solo lanes.( Basically duo jungle)

TehNACHO1 votes

Well this looks fun.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zllj_umMPQ_JUxFfajpgLlKG-XsjGdm78k0KRjWbNJ0/edit?usp=sharing

The largest plus I see is that having a jungler creates a 4th resource pool and helps the team as a whole.

Random Task1 votes

Typically against jungle teams, the 2 top loses because of the disadvantage of ganks in the other two lanes. What many forget is, this game is centered around gold. Your rate of gold income from kills goes up when you have a jungler because of their ganks. When you pull the jungler out and throw them top, you're sacrificing faster kill gold income and replacing it with 2 top laners fighting over gold from the minions. You also sacrifice control of the gold and xp that comes from the jungle monsters.

Junglers are like the gate keepers of the jungle. Typically the one who does their job the worst (not securing jungle camps and objectives in the jungle) loses.

Okayish Fish1 votes

It lets their jungler get 4 buffs really easy instead of 2

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