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Kindred E, Mounting Dread and Windwall-type Interactions

DrBaconCat··32 votes·12,294 views

Windwall seems to have no operative "rules" for how it works. Pyke's phantom counts as a projectile, while Irelia's ult does not count as a projectile for its purposes.

This is going to be a case for the final part of Kindred's E, Mounting Dread. The ability "Directs" Wolf to attack her target, instead of using her bow. Kindred, as a champion is NOT Lamb or Wolf but both of them and was billed as a champion who is both of them when they were released. Champions can walk through windwall, therefore Wolf should be able to go through windwall.

When Kindred uses W, Wolf's Frenzy. Wolf is able to walk (float?) up through the windwall and attack yasuo. Why is this type of movement treated differently when compared to Kindred's E, where Lamb "directs" Wolf to move to her target. He is not thrown, he is not a projectile. He uses the same locomotion to move to targets while in Wolf's Frenzy.

Malphite is able to ult through Windwall, but Wolf is not able to go through windwall (with regards to Mounting Dread). Why is one champion able to go through, while the other is blocked? Wolf is a part of the Kindred champion and therefore should interact with abilities as a champion.

32 Comments

rtbf2256182415 votes

Imagine if Malphite would ult to Yasuo and just disappear to the windwall?

Yasuo Come at me, rock monster! Malphite You will pay for what you've done to my team! Malphite ults Malphite "DIE!!!!" Yasuo uses Windwall Malphite disappears into the Void item 3512 A new visitor.. Velkoz Who the hell are you?

xxxDogmanxxx1 votes

Malphite: Malphite.

Pika Fox3 votes

Its a ranged auto attack. Therefore it gets blocked.

Malphites ult is unstopable. Same with sion.

DrBaconCat8 votes

both are instances of the champion moving through the windwall. Irelia's Ult is also a ranged attack and ignores windwall

Pika Fox3 votes

Youre comparing an apple and an orange. Malphs ult is unstoppable, meaning nothing can stop its completion. Same with noct, sion etc.

Kindreds E is a 3 hit auto attack. It is not "unstoppable", and therefore can be stopped.

Im assuming irelias R can be stopped before contact, in which case it is stoppable. Upon contact, it becomes terrain, and not a projectile.

DrBaconCat7 votes

Should a champion have to be unstoppable to move through a Windwall? Was Wolf not billed as part of the Kindred champion and thus subject to the same interactions as a champion should be?

Also I highly suggest you test the Irelia ult into the windwall. It absolutely goes right thru it before the second part of it activates

Eternal Torment5 votes

Windwall is meant to stop PROJECTILES

Wolf is part of Lamb, who both combined result in Kindred. That Wolf is not treaten as a champion, the OP says, is blatantly degenerative and false.

Kindred is "Lamb + Wolf" and not "Lamb.... and oh, there is also wolf."

Wolf should be treaten as a champion and not a projectile even if he is executed through an AA, and thus he should be allowed to ignore Windwall in all instances.

Pika Fox4 votes

He SHOULD be treated as a projectile, because, under the ability of her E, thats what he IS. The animation is irrelevant. All that matters is E marks a target for a 3 hit auto attack proc. Ranged auto attacks are stopped by windwall, therefore E3 is stopped by windwall. Animation makes no difference as to what happens.

Eternal Torment6 votes

I Disagree, Wolf is part of what makes Kindred a champion, not just an asset tool on the side. That his gameplay-thematic is degraded this much compared to his Lore-thematic is almost insulting for kindred players.

And No, ranged attacks are not stopped by windwall. Projectiles are. You forget champs like Thresh and kayle can bypass yas wall. Wolf can remain part of the AA, but he should not be a projectile.

Pika Fox2 votes

End of the day, all that matters is he is the animation to kindreds auto which is stopped by windwall. The animation as to what happens is irrelevant, all that matters is its kindred's auto attack. Therefore, windwall blocks it. Wolf isnt even part of the discussion.

Eternal Torment3 votes

Welp...yasuo favorism is now officially confirmed.

Pika Fox2 votes

Im a support main who doesnt even own yasuo. I even own kindred.

DrBaconCat4 votes

Wolf is a part of the discussion because that's what my thread is about. You blanketly write that its the animation of the auto that matters when specific examples exist that contradict that so it doesn't apply in all cases. There are good legitimate reasons why Wolf, who is every bit a champion as Lamb is, should be able to move through the windwall based on the specific design unique to the champion.

Pika Fox1 votes

If your only reason is an attempt at semantics, its not a great gameplay argument. Its a ranger auto. Kindreds basic attack is blocked, and this isnt a basic attack change. The only thing different is the animation.

DrBaconCat3 votes

Its not just a semantic one. Wolf and Lamb are the champion Kindred, and champions can float (like karthas) or walk (like most the others) through windwall. Therefore there is standing that wolf can go through the windwall. Yes Kindred is making an attack animation (note that Kindred is not just Lamb, so her attack animation isn't the only thing to consider) but wolf is the one attacking.

flibitydoo1 votes

To be fair your argument makes as much sense as "blitzcrank's Q should go through windwall because his hand is a champion"

well sure, you can argue that, but from a gameplay clarity perspective when you look at it and ask yourself "is it a projectile", it makes complete sense for it to be stopped.

It would make sense if Wolf attacked like Xerath W where it comes directly from the sky as a ground target aoe, but so long as it is a clear cut ball projectile in it's current state then it makes perfect sense for it to be absorbed.

The Space Cowboy1 votes

Camille

Modl Ryden l3 votes

I want to say Irelia's ultimate is a projectile until it hits an enemy champion. After which it becomes damaging terrain. Kind of like J4's ultimate.

Malphite's and Sion's ultimate is not a projectile but a champion that's dashing. However they unstoppable while they're doing it so grounding abilities like Veigar's cage, Cass' Miasma, Singed Adhesive will not affect them until after they finish their ability.

DrBaconCat3 votes

I suggest you test the Irelia ult into the windwall. It absolutely goes right thru it before the second part of it activates.

Should a champion have to be unstoppable to move through a Windwall? Was Wolf not billed as part of the Kindred champion and thus subject to the same interactions as a champion should be?

Oleandervine4 votes

What they're trying to point out is that Sion and Malphite are champions. However, Wolf, as part of Kindred, qualifies as a projectile in one ability while not qualifying as a projectile in another ability - and yet, Wolf is supposed to be half of the champion. Kindred is Wolf and Lamb, not just Lamb. That's the OP's complaint here.

Also, Veigar's cage does not ground. It stuns. Grounded prevent you from dashing or blinking when you're affected by it.

DrBaconCat1 votes

This exactly

nyakasgoods3 votes

The third auto of E is treated as a projectile and not as a champion dash because you can't hit wolf to deal damage to kindred while he's flying at them. Kindred's W is treated like a Nasus E but only deals damage to one opponent, so there's nothing for windwall to block.

Holy Activist1 votes

A wall of wind can't block a light Lazer But can block

  1. A giant powerful wave
  2. A fast moving bullet (that previously was unavoidable unless somebody jumped in front of you) but you know some champions W can just block the whole thing and you're ult will still go on cooldown
  3. A sphere containing dark energy
  4. A hail from a pure fire Cannon

And any other strong ultimate that's a projectile...

Like I would understand if wind wall was his ultimate I wouldn't even be upset but the fact that it's just a 20 sec W ability And he gets a free shield from walking....

I imagine someone that riot was like: Idea for a champion someone who gets a free Shield periodically by moving around, he has a lot of crit, and his W blocks literally every projectile in the game (but we're going to exclude it for our most popular champion lux of course) he dashes around everywhere so Landing a skill on him is going to be quite difficult Oh and after he dies he automatically Resurrected [but that didn't make it to the Final Cut]

SpaghettiVase1 votes

Oh and after he dies he automatically Resurrected [but that didn't make it to the Final Cut]

That's going to be his new passive. He's going to have a karthus passive yet he still moves

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

This just proves that Kindred needs a rework so that Wolf can be a proper part of the kit and not just VFX, i mean they can keep what Lamb has but with the rework they need to add more Wolf aspects

i mean they already touched on Irelia not meeting her gameplay fantasy so we know eventually they will get to Kindred it will just take a while cause Kindred is newer

They same thing is gonna happen for Kai'sa

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

Yeah it's weird but Riot considers Kindred to be mostly Lamb and not Wolf. I'd say for the W, wolf is more like an untargetable pet that moves around and does damage. He becomes a projectile for the E, which is odd. Kindred just needs a larger rework tbh. I want to actually be able to play as wolf.

Also can someone explain why Irelia's ult can go through the windwall?

Summonah123691 votes

I swear if you manage to get fed on Kindred, tons of marks, full build and good runes. You can 1v5 the enemy team by just kiting. Cus it'll deal tons of dmg.

GreenhoodJ1 votes

Wolf being a part of the Kindred champion doesn't matter (and I'd argue that the whole 'two parts of the same champion' fantasy riot was going for majorly failed in the kit, since it's really no better than Quinn & Valor) because all that matters to the windwall is whether or not an attack hitting it is a projectile. Kindred is not a projectile and thus can walk through it. Lamb Q dashing isn't a projectile and can thus go through windwall. Malphite charging isn't a projectile, so he doesn't get destroyed. Wolf attacking on kindred's 3rd E is coded as a projectile, therefore it's intercepted by the windwall. From a code perspective, this is consistent with most other projectile abilities. Projectile basic attacks, Ahri Q, Quinn Q, Twitch W, etc.

The argument that "Wolf is a part of the champion, so shouldn't be affected by windwall" is faulty because it relies primarily on lore rather than consistent mechanics. It's like saying Quinn's Q should go through windwall because valor is was a part of the Duo champion. Additionally, lore doesn't matter much for gameplay purposes (brand's literally made of fire, so why do other sources of fire hurt him? Why can't champions hurt themselves with abilities? etc.)

DrBaconCat1 votes

Quinn isn't billed as "Quinn and Valor" in the store or champ select. The champion Kindred is literally Wolf and Lamb. Wolf is designated part of the champion. Its not a lore argument. Wolf is literally a champion. This isn't a lore argument because what designates a "champion" is not something decided by lore. Now what designates a champion is a bit more up in the air, but seeing how the champ icon is both Wolf And Lamb's masks and neither of their name is featured as the champion (Kindred) I would say its safe to argue that Wolf is as much the champion as Lamb is.

I get you are saying "its not coded that way" but exceptions are coded into the game all the time, so I don't feel like it is a valid argument. Its kind of like saying "The law is the law," but the law can change with a valid enough reason. Why does Thresh autos go through WindWall? Well he has a long chain, but the game has Thresh coded as a ranged champ (he can't by Tiamat/Sterkks ect). I think the fact that Wolf is the champion (which I feel like is undeniable based on reasons given) is a perfectly valid reason for Kindred to be added to the exceptions.

MooooooooreDakka1 votes

IIRC, it was going to be Quinn and Valor but that was too long for the client so they had to go with Quinn. I guess with the rework, counting Valor as a projectile would make sense.

The Space Cowboy1 votes

Meanwhile thresh can auto through the wall. Not complaining though.

KZ Engel1 votes

i find it hilarious that people are still unironically referring to kindred as "them"

you're 100% playing as lamb with wolf functioning as a pet and thrown projectile

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