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So w/o AP where's the trinity in Trinity Force?

zennindon0··61 votes·4,677 views

So granted I'm still relatively new to the game, but to me it seems like Riot put more time into nerfing things that weren't in need of it, and not fixing issues that needed improvements. Before you go and start devil's advocating me with how great the new Graves is, take a moment to think about the bigger picture. What was wrong with the AP in trinity force? Aside from Hexblade (which was also nerfed by removing the cooldown) it was one of if not the only (sorry Guinsoo) viable hybrid item that gave ad/ap as well as attack speed mana and health. To me however, it was the ad/ap/speed that made the "trinity" not the health or mana. I know I'm not the only one as friends of mine that have been playing since season one and two also seem dumbfounded by this nerf of sheen, a classic staple of the game. Perhaps it's like many in the community say, and Riot just has something aginst mages, but does that really justify what they're doing? Which leads me to my next biggest qualm, as someone who started as a jungler I must say I'm thouroghly dissapointed in the changes to the starting items for junglers. Not to mention the removal of the avarace blade, an item that often allowed for late game comebacks when losing cs in lane. Yeah the rift herald seems cool and all, but did jungler's really need a gold nerf when they were already among the least income roles in the game? To me it feels like they messed up so many more things that had absolutly nothing wrong with them, than the few things they actually improved. Even the convoluted update to masteries seems to have nerfed most of what I liked about them than to have given me more "impactful" decisions. I will forever miss going 30-0-0 and having cooldown and attackspeed. Now most will probably opt for scaling AD/AP over a measly 2% spellvamp/lifesteal... to the League I fell in love with, R.I.P... and welcome to the unforgiving season 6. Please leave any other thoughts on the preseason changes, and pray that the Riot Gods have mercy on our souls...

52 Comments

Kitten of Evil12 votes

Without 42, where's the Wit's End in item 3091 ?

facemelter7106 votes

This needs to build out of stinger and give it tenacity and 10% cdr. Then it's worth buying

ChaoticPinecone9 votes

Whats the answer to life, the universe, and everything? You used to be at Wits End before you knew the answer.

Now nothing makes sense.

maikokk1 votes

thats the best suggestion ive seen. would be perf with zeph gone

Specter0271 votes

I only build that on WW now. Guinsoo's replaced it on just about every other champion.

magic pole7 votes

really?

it's not the stats it's the items that build into it

item 3086 item 3057 item 3044 --there you go, the "trinity"

also, i didn't actually read your post. L2paragraphs

RisenDarkKnight7 votes

It's the trinity of item 3057 , item 3044 , and item 3086 . Super lame the way Riot changed it, but the name does still make sense.

I GANK LANES2 votes

yeah but why those items? ap as and ad. trinity, balance, as one 3, yin yang, asian, muay thai, lee sin. all connected brahLeeSin

IcyPepper1 votes

Now it's ad, as, and cdr.

Damn, not as catchy.

iHerring1 votes

You're forgetting the 3 most important letters in league

A D C

LynXerf6 votes

{quoted}

What was wrong with the AP in trinity force?

A lot of champs who built sheen had little use for the AP. All champions enjoy cooldown reduction, it's pretty much a Sheen buff because it costs 150 less and switches 20 AP for 10% CDR.

Aside from Hexblade (which was also nerfed by removing the cooldown) it was one of if not the only (sorry Guinsoo) viable hybrid item that gave ad/ap as well as attack speed mana and health.

Well, Hextech was also buffed. Most items have been brought down in efficiency, so as the base stats from Gunblade are unchanged, it's been buffed in respect to other items. The CDR on the active was halved but the reduction was removed, so it's a nerf to that for on-hit champions. But the healing has been buffed. Rageblade is a fantastic hybrid item now.

To me however, it was the ad/ap/speed that made the "trinity" not the health or mana.

Effectively hybrid champs have "lost" Tri force but gained the new Rageblade. If you want the trinity of Attack Speed, Attack Damage and Ability power then a stacked Rageblade will give you 64%, 54 & 72 respectively, along with 30-80 on hit AOE damage. What more do you want? You will now mainly buy Tri for the mobility and damage of the passives, and the base stats give a good general boost. Riot just wanted to move Triforce from being the go-to item for a lot of bruisers. If you're hybrid, build Rageblade and Gunblade.

dumbfounded by this nerf of sheen, a classic staple of the game. Perhaps it's like many in the community say, and Riot just has something aginst mages, but does that really justify what they're doing?

How the hell does the change to sheen nerf mages? Lich Bane now GAINS 2% movement speed and 10% CDR. It loses nothing but gains a hell of a lot of efficiency. That's a large buff.

Even the convoluted update to masteries seems to have nerfed most of what I liked about them than to have given me more "impactful" decisions.

The masteries will inevitably suit some champions more than others. Hopefully Riot will address this with nerfs and buffs across the board when it's clear who benefits (Trynd/Yasuo) and who loses out (Riven/Panth?).

I will forever miss going 30-0-0 and having cooldown and attackspeed. Now most will probably opt for scaling AD/AP over a measly 2% spellvamp/lifesteal... to the League I fell in love with, R.I.P... and welcome to the unforgiving season 6.

I loved going 30-0-0 against easy lane opponents, but hey, that's just how it is. There are clear reasons they've changed the masteries around, and the Keystone masteries are far more interesting than what we have before. This is preseason, why is everyone up in arms about some basic overpowered things that obviously will get addressed. Chill, enjoy the chaos and at least for now you can do what you want with the meta.

Yorukin5 votes

To be perfectly honest, I love the change to Sheen itself. While the Spellblade effect is attractive to a large number of champions, the AP was often something of a turnoff. The problem is sorting out the stats on Trinity Force.

Lich Bane and Runeglaive were already AP-reliant, so they could just bake some AP into the recipes as solid compensation; Lich Bane even got buffed for it. Iceborn Gauntlet, meanwhile, is always built on tanks and fighters for some extra AoE damage and CC, with plenty of armor and mana. The AP was kinda pointless, especially with the new radius buff.

Trinity Force, on the other hand, was the item that gave EVERYTHING, with special emphasis on its incredibly powerful Spellblade procs. Taking the AP out of it was unfortunate collateral damage, but there's no way to put it back in without either ruining the three-part recipe or having the stat materialize out of nowhere (something that can only be done safely with CDR).

I will agree that more crits on it was not the way to go, though. Trinity Force is for AD casters who can abuse the massive damage amplifier on its Spellblade while still benefiting from its variety of stats. These same champions tend to be less reliant on crits, not that the new Essence Reaver seems to care.

LankPants4 votes

It's still a Trinity, all 3 parts are crit now though.

ChaoticPinecone4 votes

They killed trinity when it cost more than 3 gold to combine the items.

The Soulforged1 votes

it wasn't originally that though :/

Lithium Rosa3 votes

RIOT has always been working on narrowing our choices. Sometimes I feel like they just don't want us to have fun.

OOOOHHHHBABY1 votes

{quoted}

RIOT has always been working on narrowing our choices. Sometimes I feel like they just don't want us to have fun.

Feel the same way. A lot less hybrids now, and they keep removing the AP ratio on old champs that made 4 some lulsy builds

Specter0273 votes

{quoted}

"... but to me it seems like Riot put more time into nerfing things that weren't in need of it, and not fixing issues that needed improvements."

That's somewhat accurate about how I feel about this patch. Most of this feels like change for the sake of change, not a game that's is seeing targeted, well thought out improvements in places that need it as it heads toward a well-defined vision. I liked that they tried to bring more diversity of ADCs, and create identities for them, I don't like how unhealthy most of these changes have felt.

Vistha Kai2 votes

Exactly my thoughts. Change for the sake of change.

It looked good when they brought marksman update, but then completely obliterated everything in the vicinity.

Well, same thing with the Juggernaut bullcrap, except the collateral damage(Oh, boy.) wasn't as astonishing.

Bergk2 votes

Yeah with only 25 ad and zero AP; it is a worthless purchase in the current league of crit. CDR is on everything else, trinity doesn't need it. I can't think of anyone its good on anymore. :/

Mathbalnase2 votes

AD/AS/Crit

ZephyrDrake2 votes

{quoted}

AD/AS/Crit

oh you mean the stats it already had? 2 of which got nerfed? just to accommodate for the extra CDR and crit?

Mathbalnase2 votes

They still make a nice 'trinity'

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

They still make a nice 'trinity'

that is not a trinity in the slightest though, might as well look for every almost every single AD item that gives more than 2 stats (not that hard to do) and say they have a nice 'trinity'

Mathbalnase2 votes

I might suggest that you have an arbitrarily narrow definition of what qualifies as 'a trinity'.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

I might suggest that you have an arbitrarily narrow definition of what qualifies as 'a trinity'.

i could say the same to you

Mathbalnase1 votes

I might suggest pursuing something of a remedial literacy course.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

I might suggest pursuing something of a remedial literacy course.

i don't you follow your own advice?

Mathbalnase1 votes

Now you're not even trying.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Now you're not even trying.

because you were even trying to begin with?

Mathbalnase2 votes

I never try. I simply am.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

I never try. I simply am.

suuuure

Solaxo1 votes

{quoted}

that is not a trinity in the slightest though, might as well look for every almost every single AD item that gives more than 2 stats (not that hard to do) and say they have a nice 'trinity'

THREE items. Learn to count ffs

ZephyrDrake2 votes

i really don't see much of a reason to buy it on most champions, CDR is so easy to get on AD champs that the CDR it has makes it pointless, you lost so many stats just for the CDR and 10% extra crit all the while making it a bit more expensive... the item as it is right now it's practically worthless on most champions and i really can't see any reason to buy it anymore. ADCs that normally built it can't even use the sheen passive as effectively since it's also nerfed to them due to them having lower base AD now... so maybe it's an item that's only supposed to be good on Irelia now?

Kitten of Evil1 votes

So... I guess you could say they nerfed Irelia!

:D

I'll show myself out.

Sohleks2 votes

Removing sheen AP lets sheen build into frozen gauntlet without having ap making more room for tank stats.

Sheen and lichbane having cdr instead does make lichbane more attractive in a lot of cases. In sheen's case it varies on the champion, but sheen rush wasn't a common strategy for ap's anyways. Except for maybe Fizz and Twisted Fate who both love cdr anyways.

That's the logic.

The loss of Trinity Force attack speed hurts but addition of cdr is valuable in most cases... I think the real issue is much cheaper items are currently overtuned (guinsoo's and other assortments of crit items)

It is also worth noting Trinity Force's "buddy item" Bork got nerfed too and together they made a nice on-hit ability-burst build.

warpenguin5552 votes

It's in the 3 shot. As in that adc just 3 Shot me

Vistha Kai1 votes

Whole 3? You must be a tank!

Saianna2 votes

Without cigar, where's Graves in Graves?

Vistha Kai2 votes

I mean, at least it still exists. All jungle items give 10% lifesteal on jungle creeps.

Hey, look. Mage junglers are almost viabl- aaaaaaaaaand they're gone.

Cherysse1 votes

In the erased section, within Zephyr, when they did this change they turned Trinity into an OP Zephyr that isnt so much of a good option because of the heavy cost.

facemelter7101 votes

Sheen plz come back to us. T force come back to us. And Runeglave come back to us.

chipi991 votes

I actually makes the champs I play more viable.

TenSpeed1 votes

Duality Force Confirmed

ChaosThief1 votes

I guess they tried replacing AP with cooldown reduction.

...not that good now, come on.

Izbiz1 votes

I'm still mad that it costs 78g to upgrade.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Sheen got CDR in part to make up for Brutalizer being removed from the game. Now bruisers who want to rush CDR have a choice between item 3057 into an early item 3078 /item 3025 or item 3133 .

The buff to item 3025 was substantial, 20% CDR on a tank item other than item 3110 is amazing and gives champions like Malphite and Taric more offensive options early game without costing them utility.

Le Dauphin1 votes

It used to have 30 AD, 30 AP, and 30 AS too, which I thought was fitting... so many 3s being taken out of Trinity Force

Auroramancer1 votes

AP on Trinity Force was not all that great.

Hybrid champions typically relied on on-hit bursts (Jax, Akali, Kayle, etc.), and in this way, Lich Bane was a better option. Old Trinity Force gave maybe 20(?) AP, and the Spellblade effect scaled off of base attack damage, which wasn't necessarily a great stat on hybrid champions.

Current Trinity Force is better in that the improved crit chance helps to make that particular stat much better than just a small bit of crit chance and a small bit of AP.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

30 AP

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