On the conditions of Galio's rework...

Garran · 2017-03-23T14:04:41.232Z

(Quoted from the ticket I had sent to Riot) As a Galio main for several years in League, Galio's revamp has caused a great deal of distress to me and several others that I have seen. "Revamp" or not, it appears that no trace of the old Galio remains besides the taunt from his ult and durand's name on one skill from the looks of it (and if that's really a "Trace", then I guess all taunting tanks are part Galio.). While a lot of players that never played galio are happy about it, I would like to send a request regarding the conditions of this revamp, as it doesn't appear to sufficiently stay faithful to the original concept....at all. This is, quite literally, a new champ. The reason why the negative feedback in necessarily high about this is that, regardless of whatever's going on to those that did play Galio, people are seeing a new champ and are simply pleased by that. I'm speaking on account of those of us that had mained the original Galio for several years though. As quoted by the riot staff in his Q&A on redit, they stated they did this revamp like so because, "Very very few people" in League were pleased by his winrate. Please note that from my observations, Galio was never given a chance to become stronger, and with item changes (Most notably things like changing ), he only got passively weaker. This goes to show that their data is most likely inaccurate and doesn't work correctly to display the true feelings of those that played Galio. Likewise, "Very Very Few", is still a lot of people when taking account the number of those that play League. There's hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of league players, so even .01% of the population being unhappy about the revamp would still be at least ten thousand individuals. While I do understand that as a company, Riot must take steps to ensure optimal profit, the original Galio was in no way hindering the game. His design and such, has been altered enough by this rework that the original Galio doesn't in fact, currently exist now. I would like to request that either the rework be rolled back, or the two Galios be separated. The two champions are far too different for this rework to do justice for him. I would also like to present proof of the discontent of those that mained Galio, simply by providing the link yo the Galio subreddit, and to a few screenshots I made of players in the reddit responding to this revamp. Thank you for reading this ticket fully, and I beg that your company take into consideration the feelings of those that played this champ for so many years before that of those that never played him, and perhaps try to take steps to make a considerable compromise. Many of us that saw the revamp are leaving League, I myself included. If this isn't resolved, there isn't a way to fix it. Many of us are feeling bitter about the removal of our main champion and would like to have the benefit of Riot understanding and attempting to fix this. So, what do you guys think of this? Maybe if this gets popular enough, Riot staff will actually give us a couple cents of attention...

midnight oil24Mar 23, 20173 votes

First off, no need to flip out like that.

Second, he was a melee mage. Why?

As such, they took his melee aspects, like Bulwark and his ult, and played off those to make him a tank.

GarranMar 23, 20173 votes

He wasn't actually a melee mage either....he mainly focused on skillshots. He was an ap heavy champ with a focus on a passive that gave him more AP for his MR. Bulwark wasn't even a melee aspect, as the shield was for others, not himself. (while it could be applied to him it would heal him less and less.)

midnight oil24Mar 23, 20172 votes

But they could have at least given him ranged abilities. Wouldn't have fixed all his problems, it still wasn't great that it was basically use your abilites. Wait for your abilities to come off cooldown.

GarranMar 23, 20174 votes

He did have ranged abilities though, and for the damage they dealt (Which was, rather significant, especially provided that they debuffed opponents as well) the range and cooldown was pretty logical. If they just fixed that, it would've been much better...I'm really just depressed that the revamp turned Galio into something really different from his original concept. Perhaps they should've moved more toward a support, which, provided your argument for the whole guardian aspect, would've still been a lot more suitable. Wouldn't you agree?

midnight oil24Mar 23, 20172 votes

Oh, whoops, I meant ranged basic attacks.

Honestly, he can still support, but I just prefer him now. He just looked ugly in his old version, at least to me. He also didn't fit demacia visually, and his gameplay was weird and didn't super fit. Why were all his abilities ranged when hi ult was melee?

GarranMar 23, 20175 votes

Ranged basic attacks would've honestly fitted old Galio really well, provided his setup, but it's not like Riot tried to adjust old Galio before the recreation.

Gargoyles are meant to look intimidating, as their original design besides being a waterspout was to ward off evil spirits from a building. His original intention wasn't for demacia, but to protect Durand, his creator as well, so the lack of a 100% demacian look made sense. Now, the melee ult was pretty peculiar, but as I mentioned earlier, it was built for optimal use in a team fight. His kit made it more than possible to get within melee range of players via his E.

The new design honestly urks me because I really like monstrous champs, and we've already 20+ other generic muscular men, so they could've at least let us keep a single gargoyle or monster that wasn't either a god, mythical creature, or a voidspawn.

midnight oil24Mar 23, 20172 votes

I just feel like they did a good job, gave his kit more cohesion, and finally gave him some CC.

I get that you don't like him, but some other people will, and it's not the end of the world.

GarranMar 23, 20177 votes

Yeah, but here's the question. Was this rework worth removing a champ several people mained, just for a couple people to play him sparingly, but overall most likely never touch him? They didnt simply give his kit more cohesion, they gave him an entirely new kit. And he had some okay CC already, provided you built low cooldown and high mp regen alongside MR. (which was rather simple.)

They should've just made the revamp a new champ. Sure, people will like new Galio, but as I've seen, the people that already played Galio don't, and that's really what should matter. 10 games from someone that'll play him rarely vs. 1,000+ from a main, and you kinda see why it'd be such a terrible change for mains.

midnight oil24Mar 23, 20172 votes

But if they'd just made him a new champ, they would have had people accusing htem of ripping off galio's plot. Or they would have to make something weirder. He fits his new theme pretty well, IMO.

Also, give him some time. Maybe you'll grwo to like him.

GarranMar 23, 20175 votes

Nah. I don't like Demacia in all honesty, and if I dont like Garen, I sure as hell wont like his new copycat.

Old galio's plot was that he was trying to compensate for his creator's death when he failed to defend him from some assassins. He was always awake the entire time, observing the entire world for what could be seen as a long time under the guise of a lifeless gargoyle. Then poppy came along and reminded him of what Durand fought for.

Basically, compared to new Galio that literally just wakes up to fight because that's his purpose of creation, Galio's entire gist was he was fighting for retribution because he lost his original purpose as durand's guardian.

Also, old and new Galio are opposites in personality. New Galio is basically, "Galio smash!" whereas old Galio was compensating for something, quite literally.

Very Hard EngageMar 23, 20176 votes

Amumu Singed Nunu Mordekaiser Gragas Elise Evelynn Ekko

he has no healing. and his new taunt is garbo, they expected it to be as effective as old galio ult, but unfortunately you still need flash. the wind up on the channel destroys the ability making it just an interrupt or *stick around a little while longer while i get my cd's back so i can finish you because my first round wasn't enough, nor will it ever be"

RalanrMar 23, 20175 votes

Everyone of those has a reason to get into melee often.

Even Nunu.

Very Hard EngageMar 23, 20175 votes

and giving galio a long range auto would have been better and solved 95/100 of his problems as to why people dont play him.

sure it creates the issue of "well why is he tanky" but base stats can be adjusted.

turning him into another mid lane bird. Anivia

RalanrMar 23, 20173 votes

So basically turn him into another squishy harass mage?

That would make him more generic than how you see him now.

Very Hard EngageMar 23, 20174 votes

generic > bad

new galio is a mix of several already existing champs while simultaneously being the best at nothing.

RalanrMar 23, 20175 votes

{quoted}

generic > bad

new galio is a mix of several already existing champs while simultaneously being the best at nothing.

So basically you don't care if Galio is generic, you just don't like him being a tank?

Very Hard EngageMar 23, 20174 votes

i wanted riot to make a decision go one way or the other, tank, or ap. one or the other. not both, because i know they would botch it up, which they did. they tried to do too many things and never stopped to ask the important question "will it work"

ofc, excluding keep him as he was, the obvious better choice.

you cant give a champion 4 non synergistic abilities look at ivern, camille, kled, tall, AS, they all have abilities which enable themselves or can be combined.

the last champ that didn't have synergy is jhin, which doesn't matter because his passive, Q, and ult are enough to carry the whole champion.

just like old galio, his W + R were enough to carry the whole champion.

RalanrMar 23, 20175 votes

{quoted}

i wanted riot to make a decision go one way or the other, tank, or ap. one or the other. not both, because i know they would botch it up, which they did. they tried to do too many things and never stopped to ask the important question "will it work"

Except they did go one way. They made him a tank. Him having AP scalings isn't making him a mage. Most tanks have AP scalings in most of their abilities. The only ones who have more AD scaling are Sion and Poppy.

What the hell makes you think they tried doing both?

ofc, excluding keep him as he was, the obvious better choice.

I smell bias but ok.

you cant give a champion 4 non synergistic abilities look at ivern, camille, kled, tall, AS, they all have abilities which enable themselves or can be combined.

Kinda like how old Galio was non synergized. Which new Galio is not.

the last champ that didn't have synergy is jhin, which doesn't matter because his passive, Q, and ult are enough to carry the whole champion.

Jhin? No synergy? Do you not understand how his root works?

just like old galio, his W + R were enough to carry the whole champion.

Except that's not the case with Jhin and it didn't make Galio work.

Only older champions can really be carried by one or two abilities, but that's a problem in Riot's design philosophy now. HENCE ALL THE REWORKS.

GarranMar 23, 20176 votes

Kinda like how old Galio was non synergized. Which new Galio is not.

Except, the Q slowed, the E sped him up, the W could defend himself for his R or others to heal him after his R or simply defend them as he used his Q to slow down others while he sped up his allies with his E to get them away....saying his old kit wasn't synergized is like saying slow and fast aren't opposites.

And actually, his W+R could definitely carry a group in a team battle, y'know...like it was intended.

RalanrMar 23, 20177 votes

{quoted}

#70% ap scalings

Maokai has a 60% scaling ability.

Amumu has 70 and 80% scalings.

Nautilus has 75 and 80%

Rammus has 100%

Sejuani has 80%

Tahm has 70%

Zac has 70%

Malphite has 100% scaling

#SHEN HAS 135% SCALING

Wow, a lot of tanks have some decent AP scalings despite not really building like a mage. Almost like tanks usually have this crap.

Glory ln DeathMar 24, 20172 votes

And Sion has a 180% AD scaling. According to CrestKnight's logic, I guess he must be an AD carry, huh? Probably a diver or skirmisher.

Variks the LoyalMar 23, 20173 votes

You know Galio was always meant and made from the ground up to be a defensive, anti-magic tank, right?

It was always his main identity.

midnight oil24Mar 23, 20172 votes

And he still is an anti-magic tank. I never said he wasn't, I just said he was a tank.

RalanrMar 23, 20177 votes

No, he was an anti mage tank. Why do you think he had a passive build around building resistances?

GarranMar 23, 201714 votes

Why would an anti mage tank focus on mage based setups? He didn't have a trace of AD in him. He was a fundamentally, a mage that countered other mages. I get where you're going with that, but the passive also built around _increasing his AP. _

RalanrMar 23, 201712 votes

{quoted}

Why would an anti mage tank focus on mage based setups?

That was KINDA THE PROBLEM

He didn't have a trace of AD in him.

Not a lot of tanks do...so?

He was a fundamentally, a mage that countered other mages. I get where you're going with that, but the passive also built around _increasing his AP. _

By encouraging him to build tanky. He was intended to be a tank, specifically an anti magic tank. That was the problem since he either hard countered mages too hard, or was rather pointless.

Galio was supposed to be a tank but couldn't function like it. So he became a mage that's oppressive to other mages when strong.

It's the problem Rammus and Malphite have whenever they are seen as strong. The meta is pretty much spoon fed to them as they hard counter everyone in it. They are too specialized. And they are also getting reworked eventually.

Galio was a failure of a tank.

GarranMar 23, 201710 votes

Well, then go revamp Rammus and Malphite too then. Galio still had plenty of use, and revamped Galio doesn't seem particularly special either. From the looks of his setup, he'll also either absolutely destroy or get pummeled to the ground as well, and what makes it worse is that his setup isn't even original in the slightest. I cant count how many times I've heard Aatrox in the recent discussions of new Galio.

Galio, to begin with, was a rather experimental champ. He should've kept to being a unique champ instead of being turned into yet another juggernaut that's giant, and super hero-esqe, and just overall not particularly fun to play. In my eyes new Galio is just Garen 2.0. The thing about old Galio was that he had the power to tank, but also aspects that other tanks normally didn't have, such as the ability to buff allies and inflict heavy AP based damage, within short bursts. Of course, given that heavy AP matches are usually uncommon, Galio wouldn't just die or not die, 'cause he was usually fighting against a mix of AP/AD either way from my experiences. Also, he could easily fend off ADs as a pure mage if needed, so that goes to show that simply being a tank wasn't his intention.

Galio might've been seen as a "failure of a tank" in your eyes, but he wasn't meant to specifically be a tank in the first place. He was always known as a hybrid. Even riot themselves called him a hybrid, which was their main issue in revamping him to begin with. We've enough tanks, we've enough mages, so we didn't need another tank to begin with. Also, aren't there plenty of champs that either counter heavily or die? Fiora, etc?

RalanrMar 23, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Well, then go revamp Rammus and Malphite too then. Galio still had plenty of use, and revamped Galio doesn't seem particularly special either. From the looks of his setup, he'll also either absolutely destroy or get pummeled to the ground as well, and what makes it worse is that his setup isn't even original in the slightest. I cant count how many times I've heard Aatrox in the recent discussions of new Galio.

They're going to revamp those two champions.

And people make ability comparisons all the time with new stuff.

Galio, to begin with, was a rather experimental champ.

Well I think the experiment failed since they felt the need to rework him. If he truly is an experimental champion, then it's not really up to you whether it succeeded or not. It's up to the creators initial goal.

He should've kept to being a unique champ instead of being turned into yet another juggernaut

Tank. He's a fucking tank.

that's giant, and super hero-esqe, and just overall not particularly fun to play.

Fun is relative.

In my eyes new Galio is just Garen 2.0. The thing about old Galio was that he had the power to tank, but also aspects that other tanks normally didn't have, such as the ability to buff allies and inflict heavy AP based damage, within short bursts.

Old Taric. Literally old Taric.

Of course, given that heavy AP matches are usually uncommon, Galio wouldn't just die or not die, 'cause he was usually fighting against a mix of AP/AD either way from my experiences. Also, he could easily fend off ADs as a pure mage if needed, so that goes to show that simply being a tank wasn't his intention.

Fending off AD champions as a full mage only shows that a mage can fight an AD champion. That doesn't show that he wasn't intended to be a tank. Specifically an anti move tank.

Galio might've been seen as a "failure of a tank" in your eyes, but he wasn't meant to specifically be a tank in the first place. He was always known as a hybrid. Even riot themselves called him a hybrid, which was their main issue in revamping him to begin with. We've enough tanks, we've enough mages, so we didn't need another tank to begin with.

We have maybe 15-20 tanks and a lot of them aren't that diverse (hence the tank class update coming soon). We have much more mages and fighters than we do tanks. So I'll have to disagree on not needing a new tank.

Also, aren't there plenty of champs that either counter heavily or die? Fiora, etc?

Fiora can be played around her vitals be anyone. I've beaten Fiora as Sion before because I knew the counterplay to her vitals.

And even if you give examples, it doesn't mean that form of playstyle is healthy or justified. It means Riot has more work to do.

GarranMar 23, 201712 votes

You do know that the people that designed new Galio didn't even know who designed them or what they intended for him, correct? That was their issue for the longest time. So it can't be a failed experiment if the ones revamping him never made the experiment to begin with. And they revamp everyone, it's kinda their focus. My point is that they could've taken a far better approach to revamping Galio, first off, but at least keeping more than just Durand's name.

Also, I could take some of your points and say the exact same for Galio. You can beat Galio by knowing the counterplay to his strategies, and it's hella simple. And if it's ** old ** Taric, then that simply meant that the kit is up for use. I wouldn't be surprised if they make a new champ that _literally _ gets old Galio's setup, under the guise of a "Tanky mage".

Additionally, there are more tanks that're exceptionally popular than mages. The upcoming tank update will only emphasize that even more like it did previously.

Also, what justifies changing a champ so much that you can't look at them and know who they were? Does poppy's face look that different from old to new? No. As I've stated before my beef goes far beyond a simple kit on the champ. Visually, he's almost closer to Malphite now than old Galio. Hell, maybe he IS! I get it. You like tanks, you think Galio's a failure of a tank, but aesthetically and the like, he's always been primarily a mage. When you suddenly change a champ this much, it isn't even a revamp or rework, it's just flat out replacing them. It's like changing poppy for a human with a hammer. Actually, it isn't, 'cause unlike old to new Galio, that'd still fit Poppy's lore.

Have you also considered that some people select champs for a little more than the fact they're a tank? 'cause thats why I chose Galio. I liked the gargoyle concept.

RalanrMar 23, 20174 votes

{quoted}

You do know that the people that designed new Galio didn't even know who designed them or what they intended for him, correct? That was their issue for the longest time. So it can't be a failed experiment if the ones revamping him never made the experiment to begin with. And they revamp everyone, it's kinda their focus. My point is that they could've taken a far better approach to revamping Galio, first off, but at least keeping more than just Durand's name.

I guess they didn't see as much of old Galio as worth keeping as you did. Plain and simple.

Also, I could take some of your points and say the exact same for Galio. You can beat Galio by knowing the counterplay to his strategies, and it's hella simple. And if it's ** old ** Taric, then that simply meant that the kit is up for use. I wouldn't be surprised if they make a new champ that _literally _ gets old Galio's setup, under the guise of a "Tanky mage".

And I'm sure that mage will have ranged autos just to spite former Galio mains.

But I doubt it.

Additionally, there are more tanks that're exceptionally popular than mages.

That's a load of fucking horseshit. I'm sorry but do you know what a tank is?

There are maybe 4 tanks played in the LCS right now. And SoloQ was basically dominated by Maokai. Mages are not that rare.

The upcoming tank update will only emphasize that even more like it did previously.

Yeah, it'll make tanks more fun hopefully.

Also, what justifies changing a champ so much that you can't look at them and know who they were?

Nothing but observational skills. Old Galio's dialogue didn't express much of his mournful personality bytheway.

Does poppy's face look that different from old to new? No.

A bit younger and has that tooth, but sure.

As I've stated before my beef goes far beyond a simple kit on the champ. Visually, he's almost closer to Malphite now than old Galio.

Won't fully disagree. Him being so huge does feel rather extra.

Hell, maybe he IS! I get it. You like tanks, you think Galio's a failure of a tank, but aesthetically and the like, he's always been primarily a mage.

A mage as a result of failing to be a tank. And not a very good mage either. But we'll have to agree to disagree here, it bring old Galio back.

When you suddenly change a champ this much, it isn't even a revamp or rework, it's just flat out replacing them.

That's what these do. Sion was replaced, Poppy was replaced, Yorick was replaced.

I'll agree that Galio's change was the biggest. But he is still at his core a guardian.

It's like changing poppy for a human with a hammer. Actually, it isn't, 'cause unlike old to new Galio, l that'd still fit Poppy's lore.

Lost track here.

GarranMar 23, 20174 votes

Ehhh, maybe I was a little inaccurate about tanks 'cause its been awhile since I've played, but overall what I'm trying to say is Galio gave a pretty interesting experience when playing at him, and while he isnt the best champ, he was pretty fun for those of us that mained him.

What I meant about the whole poppy thing is, they've changed Galio beyond even keeping the concept of him being a gargoyle, instead coining the concept that he's now a "collosus" because gargoyles just aren't good enough or somethin'. Kinda as if you changed a champ's species to make them seem more viable design-wise.

I wish they kept his concept, outside of kit basically. I totally wouldn't mind having a tank Galio, even if they took away his mage aspects. But when ya get emotionally attatched to a character, only for that character to no longer be in any way related to them except through concept, it feels like a major loss. I would've taken a weak, but enjoyable character over a strong but generic one anyway. If that makes more sense, I'll go with that logic. Sorry if I seem kinda biased or unagreeable, it's just it's a major letdown to play as this guy for so long, only to lose exactly why I played him to begin with. So yeah, basically what you first said. They didn't want to keep the gargoyle, and thats what made me upset.

CroaninMar 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ehhh, maybe I was a little inaccurate about tanks 'cause its been awhile since I've played, but overall what I'm trying to say is Galio gave a pretty interesting experience when playing at him, and while he isnt the best champ, he was pretty fun for those of us that mained him.

What I meant about the whole poppy thing is, they've changed Galio beyond even keeping the concept of him being a gargoyle, instead coining the concept that he's now a "collosus" because gargoyles just aren't good enough or somethin'. Kinda as if you changed a champ's species to make them seem more viable design-wise.

I wish they kept his concept, outside of kit basically. I totally wouldn't mind having a tank Galio, even if they took away his mage aspects. But when ya get emotionally attatched to a character, only for that character to no longer be in any way related to them except through concept, it feels like a major loss. I would've taken a weak, but enjoyable character over a strong but generic one anyway. If that makes more sense, I'll go with that logic. Sorry if I seem kinda biased or unagreeable, it's just it's a major letdown to play as this guy for so long, only to lose exactly why I played him to begin with. So yeah, basically what you first said. They didn't want to keep the gargoyle, and thats what made me upset.

Riot's doesn't want to have generic characters. Galio simply being a "gargoyle" wasn't enough. Ryze is the example of how they didn't just want some regular bearded wizard.

GarranMar 23, 20174 votes

It's really weird though, because Gargoyles were a rare concept to begin with. It just seems over the top to make him a colossus, especially provided there's already a few "colossus" in all technicality, like Sol, Malphite, etc. (If you take in account their realistic sizes)

It's pretty odd when you look at the two concepts, right?

CroaninMar 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well, then go revamp Rammus and Malphite too then. Galio still had plenty of use, and revamped Galio doesn't seem particularly special either. From the looks of his setup, he'll also either absolutely destroy or get pummeled to the ground as well, and what makes it worse is that his setup isn't even original in the slightest. I cant count how many times I've heard Aatrox in the recent discussions of new Galio.

Galio, to begin with, was a rather experimental champ. He should've kept to being a unique champ instead of being turned into yet another juggernaut that's giant, and super hero-esqe, and just overall not particularly fun to play. In my eyes new Galio is just Garen 2.0. The thing about old Galio was that he had the power to tank, but also aspects that other tanks normally didn't have, such as the ability to buff allies and inflict heavy AP based damage, within short bursts. Of course, given that heavy AP matches are usually uncommon, Galio wouldn't just die or not die, 'cause he was usually fighting against a mix of AP/AD either way from my experiences. Also, he could easily fend off ADs as a pure mage if needed, so that goes to show that simply being a tank wasn't his intention.

Galio might've been seen as a "failure of a tank" in your eyes, but he wasn't meant to specifically be a tank in the first place. He was always known as a hybrid. Even riot themselves called him a hybrid, which was their main issue in revamping him to begin with. We've enough tanks, we've enough mages, so we didn't need another tank to begin with. Also, aren't there plenty of champs that either counter heavily or die? Fiora, etc?

Galio was in my champion pool also. I always new he was due for a tune up, but I was annoyed when they announced he was getting a "Sion/Poppy" level rework, which is essentially a new champion, that's a spiritual succeser of the old. You have champion updates, and reworks, and I was hoping his would be more inline with Fiora, Warwick and Taric, where you feel like it's clearly the same champion, but updated for the current time.

Sion, Poppy and Taric had clear design flaws that made it so if they were ever too viable, they were just broken. (point and click stun, immunity,etc.) So big changes were warranted.

Galio was actually in a decent spot with a high win rate, good at what he did. Galio was a disengage/peel tank, similar to the likes of Cho'gath or Braum, awful at engaging w/o flash but his Q made him a great peeler, along with shielding carries and his ultimate to round up divers.

Now he's just an all around tank, that happens to be good against AP. What always bothered me about Galio was that even though he was good against magic he never really screwed magic damage users over in the same fashion that Malphite or Rammus did to AD users.

If you picked Malphite or Rammus into a full AD team it was pretty much GG, not just because there damage scaled with Armor, but they're kits inheritly screw over AD users. Malphite with his attack speed slow, helping his entire team and Rammus reflecting damage back.

I was hoping the Galio rework would make him the AP Malphite, but all he got as a Magic shield. Imo if they just gave old Galio the current passive he has now and just take the absurd cast time away on his E, he would have been fine.

Regardless I'm liking the new Galio and I think he'll be a fine addition to my champion pool. His Q is still there even if it doesn't slow, and I don't have to worry about getting CC'd for my taunt. I mean the amount of CC he has is kind of crazy.

GarranMar 23, 20176 votes

Yeah, he's pretty nice as a standalone champ. I just wish I could still play as the gargoyle I loved and came to league for.

RalanrMar 23, 20172 votes

If it helps, I'm sorry for your loss.

GarranMar 23, 20172 votes

Ehhhh, I've got other games I can play at least. Sorry 'bout snapping at yah. I'm really going to miss playing as old Galio.

Sire HippingtonMar 24, 20172 votes

He was ment to be tanky, especiallly vs magic damage, that's not the same as beeing a tank. The closest 'class' that discribed him would be battle mage, tanky with decent damage but not to much cc/mobillity. Gallio fit very well into that profile, just that his huge aoe cc ult somewhat pushed him towards tank a bit more.

It's also noteable that Gallios most succesfull builts through out his entier existence(that recently came to an end) were rather ap-heavy, so claiming that he was more a mage than a tank is totally valid. He spend more time in distance to his opponents, useing the range of his base kit, and only closed in when his W was up and for the ult. Just like swain or vlad, his tank tools didn't make him a huge frontline, but more allowed him to aim for the opposing back line without fearing the opposing front line while beeing hard to kill without focused fire when his W was down or healreduce.

RalanrMar 24, 20171 votes

And yet he was stuck with melee auto attacks.

Sire HippingtonMar 24, 20172 votes

Yea, and that's the main flaw of old galio and not much else. His melee AAs felt of cause he wasn't really rewarded for going melee asides from the ult(that also had ~550 range if you just wanted a specific target) He didn't even have good base stats on his AAs unlike other tanks like malph, mao or gragas. It was more in line with mages like morgana. So imo there were two good ways to solve that issue: give him a reward in meleerange, and simply changeing his passive the way they did would have been enough(with some number balanceing for his overall damage), giving him a reason to use go in meleerange duering his W tankiness window for the extra burst. Or Giving him ranged AAs, imo 450 range like morgana would have gone a long way for him, still keeping him somewhat close combat as tanky mage, but not full melee without payoff either. But that rework, besides deleteing his form character in terms of story, art and vo, eliminated nearly all mage aspects and turned him into a clear tank. And Galio never was a pure tank, he always was a mage/tank hybrid. Also, his melee attacks are actually a point for him beeing a mage: Every tank has a kit that works better if they can stay close to their opponents, either aoe dots like Amumu's W, spamable close combat spells or echanted AAs, spells that automatically get you to melee range and so on. Thx to his pointless AAs and no other melee skills, Galio never profited from going melee later on(in lane, especially vs mages, the AAs still had impact). In teamfights, Galio would have the same effective impact with his base kit from ~800 range as he would have in melee range, which fits for a mage but is very unusal for a tank.

NarasimhaMar 23, 20173 votes

Eh, I never saw it. I always put him in the same vein as Gragas, a magic bruiser, rather than a tanky mage. Hell, gragas got his minor rework for the exact reason.

On the conditions of Galio's rework...

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