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Alistar's Headbutt should stun an enemy against walls.

Digital Xcalibur··31 votes·4,244 views

Alistar is one for my main champs and I read that Riot is looking into making Alistar's gameplay better and I honestly think hi's abilities are all good the only ability that should be changed is that useless passive I don't have any ideas to what but I'm not here to talk about his passive.

instead I think the best buff that Alistar could have is to make hi's Headbutt stun enemies when they are knocked into a wall like Vayne's Condemn or Poppy's Heroic Charge.

Not only will this stop Alistar from knocking champions over a wall to safety also it will stop most Alistar players from killing their own adc because now when someone hits a Q with Alistar they knock the enemy adc into their adc with W and both the enemy adc and support all in your adc and you can't do anything given you just used all your cc this is a common mistake so if his W does receive that buff to be able to stun enemies when they hit a wall it will encourage players to knock them into a wall instead of their adc not only making Alistar players happy but all the adcs that have died to the Q&W combo.

Leona has 3 stuns and has a passive that gives extra dmg.

Thresh has 1 stun and 2 slows and a good passive.

Blits has 2 stuns and a silence that is up every 30 seconds and also a good passive.

Braum has a stun passive a slow and a knock up 3 types of cc.

Alistar has one stun hi's Q and a useless passive that takes kills and cs blitz has kinda the same passive but he has a second part to it that makes it good.

Alistar's W isn't a stun all it those is re position the enemy champion it doesn't actually stun that is literally the reason the W&Q combo exist to make it worth something cuz his W alone is just not good compared to other champions that have more then two forms of cc most of them have 3 like Leona, Thresh, Blitz, and Braum. while Alistar just has the one Knock up and the one knock away that is useless unless you use your one knock up (W&Q combo) Riot even said they wanted to give him buffs to his gameplay beacuse even they see that he doesn't have much to offer and buffing his W to have the stun against the wall will make so many plays for him like Leona, Thresh, Blits and Braum have the potential Alistar doesn't have right now.

32 Comments

flibitydoo18 votes

I've won numerous fights in the baron pit by headbutting a shyvana or some other gapcloserless champion out of the pit thereby removing them from the fight with Alistars headbutt. It has utility as a knockback as a pretty great peel option.

There is also the fact that knocking back an enemy into a wall already hangs them in the air for a split second before they can regain control.

Also, if you screw up and knock a kill away because you missed your Q, then that's more of on your fault. It's supposed to be a risk-reward combo. The reward is a malphite ultimate. The risk is throwing away a free kill.

Also what is the purpose of these champion comparisons? None of them are the same as Alistar. Even with these proposed changes, Alistar isn't going to be fixed and pulled back into being meta.

Every single champion you listed can't provide an aoe heal that can also sometimes buff up the attackspeed of everyone (including minions). None of those champions can absorb as much damage and cc as Alistar can.

Every single champion you listed can have their cc cleansed, mikaeled, or resisted with tenacity. Some of them I wouldn't even count as cc. Blitzcrank's silence only lasts for .5 seconds. Personally, I have never felt like that silence actively stopped/delayed me from casting a spell. Leona's E is a snare, and she has considerably less aoe cc than Alistar, making Alistar a much better pick for aoe wombo-combo teamcomps.

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

the W will still be able to knock away so it can still be used to peel and if a stun is added it will still gave your ally. also you can't hit your WQ every time some times it bugs out but that being said adding a stun to the W won't stop this from happening but the WQ combo isn't even a problem Alistar is just a weak support his heal isn't that strong to himself yeah but to allies it doesn't heal much. the problem here is Alistar is unbalanced and weak compared to other supports honestly giving this buff to his W wouldn't even be enough his passive needs a major upgrade.

I guess you misread everything I said because u ask questions like what is the comparison they have more cc more play potential then Alistar.

I didn't say I messed up the WQ combo but i have many times and it will continue to happen where it bugs out of i mess up. what i said is sometimes it knocks enemies through walls and that is simply useless unless you are trying to keep someone out of drag or baron but then it would only have use in those instances and any other circumstance it is simply useless yes u could save allies knocking the enemy over a wall but the stun would also save them.

67chrome6 votes

Alistar's Headbutt should stun an enemy against walls.

Not sure pinning someone against a wall would be a great idea.

currently what Headbutt does is move enemies around - either transporting an otherwise safe enemy into harm's way or punting an aggressive opponent away from squishy allies.

However, nobody sees bonus features on a skill as a bonus - they tend to read them as what you do to optimally use a skill, and what should be done every time a skill is used.

You change Alistar's Headbutt from a tool about positioning to one about stunning opponents next to walls, which is a fairly radical shift in the thought-process of using it.

Doing a solid pulverize + headbutt combo sending someone into your team also wouldn't feel the same, it would feel sub-optimal.

Which also kind of muddles Alistar's roll as a CC tank. As a proper tank, you should really be focused more on aiding allies, teamwork tactics, and team fights. Punting an enemy off your carry or punting an enemy into your team accomplish that.

Slaming an enemy into a wall changes where you want to Headbutt from team-oriented locations to a wall, which plays more into duelist/isolation play styles of the more selfish assassins, which Poppy and Vayne happen to be.

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

you are right a support should focus on helping allies but Alistar is also meant to initiator which he is but not a very strong one like i said in the post most supports offer way more then Alistar Leo, thresh, braum etc. they all have great initiations and they also have better potential to help an ally all three of them have an ult that benefits the team not just the support but Alistar does not have an ult that can help a teammate this buff to his W isn't for him its for the team in comparison to other supports Alistar is pretty handicapped and this is to balance him to give him the power most support currently have.

AetherKingdom4 votes

How about you stop being bad and then the problems you have with his W disappear.

Akenero3 votes

he DOES have a stun, it's called a pseudo-stun, the length of time that the enemy should go flying makes them unable to move, if used against a wall, some knockback effects make the enemy stunned for the duration. However I know exactly what you're talking about, what about not changing anything about the collision mechanics, but having the headbutt stun very briefly whether or not the enemy hits a wall?

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

because then you are talking about having a stun every time you hit a W instead of ppl line up the headbutt and make a play they would just simply press W also you won't always have the time to line up a stun and the enemy player can try to stay way from walss when playing vs Alistar just like you would against vanye. also champs bot can reposition themselves better to not be stunned against the wall like vanye, lucian, kalista, corki, and tristana.

Talamare2 votes

Thresh technically has a stun and a knockup

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

yeah ur right thanks for proving my point further :3

Meep Man1 votes

I would love this change. Can we also add more support for WQ combos? Such as make it so his W doesn't knock the enemy back but still does damage if he casts his Q while dashing, instead just stunning them in place for the duration of the knockback.

CounterSnipe1 votes

Nope. It's way better that his W pushes people through thin walls because sometimes you actually want to separate an enemy completely from a team fight.

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

yeah I thought that too but a stun would give you time to get away and some times they don't get pushed over the wall and most of the time this is something that rarely happens but like I said a stun would give you the time u need to get away or save ur ally

junglerboy161 votes

It is better how it is for what he wants to do with it. If you want a wall stun, pick up Poppy, she's a blast, but a little tricky to play.

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

not only do I not like playing broken champs but she is getting reworked completely so no point in trying to learn a soon to be dead champion.

Gunpoint1 votes

My idea for Alistar, Have Alistar's Q changed to a Mega Gnar Hop that knocks up enemies, leave his W as is. This way his W isn't just used as a gap closer.

TheI3igDaddy1 votes

So essentially you want his Q to turn into Aatrox's. While I'm all for that, he'd most likely be over the top then. The fact that he could easily jump onto someone, walk behind them and punt them back into your team would be too much, and I doubt Riot would want that.

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

yeah plus I personally don't want Alistar to be changed that much just to have that one thing and a better passive but gameplay wise it shouldn't be changed that drastically I don't want another mistake (Sion)

VDc0zCqe0w1 votes

he would be broken as hell like this; W to wall then Q: stunned for days

lDontLiftIcarry1 votes

Alistar used to stun against walls. they removed it. Have you ever seen an alistar main play jungle/support alistar? Level 2 ignite zero counterplay 2+ second CC lock with 200 burst.

you don't want that again do you? I'd love to have that back. But seriously you've got to admit its broken as shit rofl.

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

I never knew this but still in the way champions are progressing I don't see a problem with it riot has made a lot of gameplay changes regarding old champions and this will make him better in the current league of legends given most champions are getting double passives and more abilities then the standard 6 (Gnar, Rek'Sai and the champions that already have more in their kit then Alistar does Jayce, Nidalee, Jax and many more.)

lDontLiftIcarry1 votes

i'm not saying to NOT bring it back. I'm just saying it got removed because all the spikers abused it with champions like graves and lucian who do retarded early game damage. For easy all in level 2s even under your turret. Sure the support dies but if the adc isn't getting the kill or your adc loses 2+ waves to turret its GG anyway. 14+ cs behind. Might as well just be a death sentence early game lol

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

Well ppl always abuse the broken and op but this balance is far from broken or op ppl just have to play with more caution when fighting an Ali instead of taking him like a joke like most ppl do.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

So technically, changing it into a Sion E (minion effects, of course).

If this were to be changed, remove the after-stun from his Q. Like, how you get knocked-up for 1 second, and then gets stunned for 0.5 seconds-ish.

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

no not like that at all.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Uhh you mean the E effect? Yeah, Sion's E does stuns minions & monsters when pushed against walls, similar to how your new Ali's W concept sounds like, just that it's on champions now.

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

yeah but that's why i said vaynes condemn as a example because it works on champions but i don't know much about sion other then the part he isn't that good

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Oh right, Vayne does resembles that too lol

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

yeah u probably didn't know cuz all vaynes miss condemns

Madra1 votes

His trample needs to apply a 0.1 mini-stun every second and his triumphant roar should silence for 0.5 seconds all enemy champions caught within it's range, too. I mean, is the guy a CC tank or not? I think if Alistar uses Unbreakable Will while under the effects of CC he returns the effect to whoever cast it on him. And you know what? His kit would still be less stacked then Thresh or Lee Sin.

Akenero1 votes

My view on this, Ali should know where his carry is, and know if they are about to die, if you headbutt someone into your team, it's your fault. It's a way of making alistar require a bit of skill.

Digital Xcalibur1 votes

I didn't say it wasn't my fault and when I do try this combo I do it with the intentions of getting a kill for my adc but then u got to realize that not everyone is good my adc might be shit once i use all my cc the enemy support can cc my adc but yes it is my fault in the end but like i said I never done it with the intentions to kill my adc. it's a common mistake and it can be fixed by encouraging players to knock them into the wall instead towards adc also this stun will give Alistar a much needed buff even Riot said they wanted to buff him so it isn't just me saying buff my favorite champ I'm giving an Idea but in the end Alistar is gonna get buffed Riot is already fixing his animations and they changed hi's W a bit already.

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