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Real Talk: Balancing

TheRealStrider··1 votes·632 views

So, Lucian is very obviously the outlier op right now for adc, right? I offer a simple solution to any red names checking up on these forums. The issue, from my understanding, is that he has too much damage and mobility combined, but if you just tweak the numbers down, he's simply less good, rather than more well balanced, so my suggestion is to give him more conditional mobility. Remove a bit of his base movespeed and increase the movespeed buff on his w. This way, yes, he's still super dash-y, which keeps him fun and interesting, but in between those dashes, he has to be more careful unless he lands a w, in which case he can be the ham lucian we all know and love. Then, it also actually gives people a reason to try and dodge it.

Thoughts, anyone?

10 Comments

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

I hate Lucian. When I play him I lose because the enemy team is on curse and knows to focus me. When I play against him the enemy team is on curse and knows to peel for him. But other than dynamic queue skewing the way I look at things, I think he does need damage nerfs, along with mobility restrictions.

TheRealStrider2 votes

Just gotta get your own buddies to vc with, friend :P

UncleNature1 votes

I think if they increase his movespeed but lower down his attack damage he would still kinda be op

Mandang01 votes

How about Riot actually just...idk...NERFS something that's OP instead of trying to do the compensation buff dance?

TheRealStrider2 votes

Because the champions aren't always broken just because of high numbers; i'd say most of the time, it's functionality that breaks them. Lucian is too consistently strong . Giving him more conditional strengths and taking away that reliability gives more counterplay, whereas lowering numbers only affects the game so much. That's not to say just shaving numbers is never the solution, but it's often not the best one.

Mandang01 votes

Idk, for all the time Riot spends deciding how not to nerf Lucian, they could be figuring out how to get unplayed champs back into play. When Riot wastes so much effort on these all-for-show lovetaps, all we get is a holding pattern of the same handful of champs in top tier of play.

#LC$BIGPLAY$ basically.

TheRealStrider1 votes

I am basically 99% sure that they have multiple teams for these different things, with some people working on balancing the meta-picks and others working on bringing low-key champs back into the game. See: the mid-season mage update, which just happened. Speaking of, if you consider the last few patches a love-tap, I'm sorry, buddy, but I just don't know how to please you. lol

Mandang01 votes

Well obviously Riot's made large changes to some champs as a special class patch, that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the same champs always getting the kid gloves treatment from Riot when it comes balance time. And regardless of which team does what, resources from that team spent deciding how much help Zed gets to deal with his nerf are spent instead of helping out underpopular champs. Hell, if Riot did a good job, we might see more than 3 champs at each role next tournament!

Alternatively, we can have a repeat Kassadin reign of permaban, or we can give Zed another meaningless attack speed nerf, etc.

TheRealStrider1 votes

More than... 3 champs per role...? Idk if you and I watched the same tournament or not, but I just looked up the stat to be sure as well; there were 45 different champions played at MSI 2016. That's, on average, NINE CHAMPIONS PER ROLE. Whether that stat were as high as it is or not, it wouldn't matter anyways; comparing professional play to regular play is kind of silly. They have completely different metas from us usually both in champ select and playstyle and Riot has been pretty forward saying they refrain from balancing based on pro play as much as possible.

As for only giving light buffs/nerfs per patch to outlier OPs and stuff, that's because they don't want to under-break the champion, either, and these seemingly small nerfs or buffs can have really significant impacts on a game, especially on champs like Zed who are all about early aggression and snow-balling. If he can't be aggressive early, he falls behind and is essentially completely useless. In his current state, however, it's the opposite. He's too strong and therefore snowballs too hard, being able to one-shot even tanks given he builds and plays right. Finding a balance of him being able to snowball a lead for his team (while not snowballing too hard) and also not just being useless early and therefore useless late is much more finicky than it seems. There's such an absurd amount of math that goes into everything and there are so many item combinations and such as well, that it's incredibly difficult to properly balance a champion without breaking it in one direction or the other. Look at what happened to Fizz! He was too reliably one-shotting everyone with his basic combo that they had to move more power onto his ult and away from his other abilities. What they DIDN'T take into account was that people would then try building AD on him instead, which, with the increased damage from his ult, was EVEN MORE RIDICULOUSLY POWERFUL.

Basically, all I'm saying is, balancing is a trial-and-error process and it takes time. People are working on the things we want them to be working on, but there are priority lists and different teams and a lot more work than I believe people think there is going into everything over at Riot. It's not as easy as just flip-floppin' some numbers and calling it a day. For instance, just above, you called a light attack speed nerf meaningless, but a light AS nerf at early levels means it's harder to clear waves as someone with relatively limited aoe damage, which means it's easier to aggress the person early when they don't have enough levels to fight yet and then they lose minions under tower, so they don't get as much farm, so they don't get their item that they need as quickly, so they can't get a kill to snowball off of, so they can't carry the game the way they normally would be able to. Obviously, I'm using a bit of hyperbole here, but my point is that snowballing works both ways, so a lot of care has to go in to making these kinds of changes.

Mandang01 votes

We watched the same tournament, I'm just not as interested in the Leona that sees play in 1 game out of 41 as I am in the 10 champs above 80% pick/ban over those same 41 games. You could predict the top/jungle/mid matchups very easily each game. Make no mistake, this tournament had historically low champion diversity.

Can't be bothered to reply to your other paragraphs.

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