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Assassian update, shaco nerfed ?

Alawii96··7 votes·1,376 views

So with the assassian update all the assassians got buffed ao hard.

Rengar : one shot people in half a second

Talon : scary damage and when hes low just dont waste your time following him. He has 10k walls to parkour over

Kata : change in gamestyle, can outplay still good though Leblanc : Still op and can one ahot you + now she can trick you and laugh at you for being that stupid Fizz : a shark that is bigger than kim butt ?

Khazix : INSANE DAMAGE THAT CAN MAKE YOU CRY Ekko : R - Oh he got all his health back

Akali : can jump over walls using w, passive changed to more damage but less life vamp

Shaco : his early game is so bad, Q damage nerfed used to be 220 crit, now u cant kill a minion with it. W nice buff but u cant stack boxes anymore which was used to stop dashing and more. E lvl one deals 5 dmg ( op aint it ? ) and even at lvl 5 still doesnt deal 200 as it used to be. And the R is kinda buffed with the mini boxes but still not that good but yeah fancy.

So shouldnt shaco get buffed ? I played him like everyday and i knew how good it is. And now u cant do much even if you start well and all.

So any plans for shaco ?

34 Comments

Pasrthinia4 votes

100% agree .. shaco sucks now .. i prefer the old shaco.. For God's sake .. do something about that minion.

Michael Sykes1 votes

{quoted}

100% agree .. shaco sucks now .. i prefer the old shaco.. For God's sake .. do something about that minion.

http://champion.gg/champion/Shaco

Shaco definitely sucks. K. So statistics are wrong?

TequilaZombie1 votes

Look at his playerbase distribution and his playerbase average number of games. He's only behind Fiddle in the jungle and about 56% of his playerbase has 125 or more games with him. That's insanely high. He fell 7 positions in 1 patch. That's a pretty big impact.

Shaco is in a bad state, he manages to function due to his overly dedicated playerbase. Compare his playerbase to the ones of other champions and you will see. There are only 5 champions with a more dedicated player base: Fiddle (who has 3 out of the 10 first spots), Heimendinger, Rengar, Quinn and Riven.

A high winrate is expected. Usually, when it comes to 125+ games, the winrate of those players end up at 56%-58%.

Statistics don't lie, but there is much more to tak into account than the overall winrate of a champion.

Michael Sykes1 votes

{quoted}

Look at his playerbase distribution and his playerbase average number of games. He's only behind Fiddle in the jungle and about 56% of his playerbase has 125 or more games with him. That's insanely high. He fell 7 positions in 1 patch. That's a pretty big impact.

Shaco is in a bad state, he manages to function due to his overly dedicated playerbase. Compare his playerbase to the ones of other champions and you will see. There are only 5 champions with a more dedicated player base: Fiddle (who has 3 out of the 10 first spots), Heimendinger, Rengar, Quinn and Riven.

A high winrate is expected. Usually, when it comes to 125+ games, the winrate of those players end up at 56%-58%.

Statistics don't lie, but there is much more to tak into account than the overall winrate of a champion.

yes, of course is winrate is higher because he is mostly played by mains. But obviously he is not as bad as people think, and as long his statistical values are as a good as they are, I do not see any reason to change something. Additionally, his early game was way too oppressive, and the rework fixed that. His winrate does even increase when the game goes on, probably because he is able to kill squishies fast

Shac Norris1 votes

AD Shaco is shit now.

Early game damage is decent, but your Q is short as fuck, and thunderlord's doesnt proc because of a ''bug'' with Shaco's passive.

They basically removed crit-shaco from the game, so you can't get those late game mega crits anymore.

The only way to play jg Shaco efficiently right now is to lean towards an AP/hybrid buildpath.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Found sucess with something along the lines of farming like a Warwick until I get item 1402 and only then bothering to gank anyone who's not stupid enough to push to tower and stay there.

It still sucks to only have meaningful ganks that later in the game.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

{quoted}

Look at his playerbase distribution and his playerbase average number of games. He's only behind Fiddle in the jungle and about 56% of his playerbase has 125 or more games with him. That's insanely high. He fell 7 positions in 1 patch. That's a pretty big impact.

Shaco is in a bad state, he manages to function due to his overly dedicated playerbase. Compare his playerbase to the ones of other champions and you will see. There are only 5 champions with a more dedicated player base: Fiddle (who has 3 out of the 10 first spots), Heimendinger, Rengar, Quinn and Riven.

A high winrate is expected. Usually, when it comes to 125+ games, the winrate of those players end up at 56%-58%.

Statistics don't lie, but there is much more to tak into account than the overall winrate of a champion.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.overallPositionChange&order=descend&roleSort=Jungle

Shaco's position went up by two.

His win rate has barely changed, and he has always had one of the most experienced playerbases. He has an acceptably high win percent for people with 125+ games. The only statistic that really changed is that of his power curve. His early game win rate is lower but he actually gets more likely to win as the game goes on.

This myth that Shaco is bad now is just that. A myth.

hhaavviikk1 votes

because they play him AP and what allot of shaco players complain about is AD shaco being shit

Michael Sykes1 votes

{quoted}

because they play him AP and what allot of shaco players complain about is AD shaco being shit

highest winrate build is still ad

Kr1sys1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Michael Sykes,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QtrmUfo0,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2016-11-17T15:44:33.877+0000)

highest winrate build is still ad

By how much %? The problem with this argument is that champion.gg doesn't show anything but the top, and the complaint with Shaco is that you can go AP or AD, and have pretty much the same success. AD can farm, which is a huge benefit while AP will initiate and hit like a truck between all of his scalings being AP, plus being magic damage so he's building pen for it.

In Shaco's 'core' build he builds leathality, which is only going to help with autos, and if you actually look on his champion.gg page, you'll see his damage distribution favors magic since W, E, R all do magic damage.

My games as AP are usually stomps unless the whole team gets dumpstered, and in which case, it didn't matter if I was AD or AP, but if I'm ap and we're even or ahead AP is not going to fall off as hard because I don't have to get up in their face to drop a lot of damage with the short cds on E's or using the extended duration and higher damage on W to zone out an area for the team to take objectives easily.

They both have their merits, but AP got a boost, while AD fell off a bit.

Michael Sykes1 votes

{quoted}

By how much %? The problem with this argument is that champion.gg doesn't show anything but the top, and the complaint with Shaco is that you can go AP or AD, and have pretty much the same success. AD can farm, which is a huge benefit while AP will initiate and hit like a truck between all of his scalings being AP, plus being magic damage so he's building pen for it.

In Shaco's 'core' build he builds leathality, which is only going to help with autos, and if you actually look on his champion.gg page, you'll see his damage distribution favors magic since W, E, R all do magic damage.

My games as AP are usually stomps unless the whole team gets dumpstered, and in which case, it didn't matter if I was AD or AP, but if I'm ap and we're even or ahead AP is not going to fall off as hard because I don't have to get up in their face to drop a lot of damage with the short cds on E's or using the extended duration and higher damage on W to zone out an area for the team to take objectives easily.

They both have their merits, but AP got a boost, while AD fell off a bit.

For more specifical details I recommend this page: http://current.lolalytics.com/champion/Shaco/

AP/AD are both very good options, and the fact the itembuild is situational gives him some diversity which is good in my opinion

Kr1sys1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Michael Sykes,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QtrmUfo0,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-17T17:28:28.433+0000)

For more specifical details I recommend this page: http://current.lolalytics.com/champion/Shaco/

AP/AD are both very good options, and the fact the itembuild is situational gives him some diversity which is good in my opinion

Looks like AP/Hybrid is now the highest. I'm not big on going to the IE route in it, but that's usually what I'm building.

http://champion.gg/champion/Shaco

Wukong Airlines2 votes

(Talon : scary damage) you must be on a new intellect level mate.

Alawii963 votes

He ults from mile away parkour 10 walls w you ur dead, not scary enough?

Wukong Airlines3 votes

(He ults from mile away) literally the dumbest reason ever.

i can make shaco sound op. goes invisible every 3 seconds, ult spawns 3 boxes.

there u go.

Alawii961 votes

Alright lemme explain this a bit better. So u said go invisible and zpawn 3 boxes ? Just to let you know you will need 45 secs to spawn 3 boxes Plus with the new assassian items changes, the boxes will be disabled

So yeah shaco op, talon not

Shac Norris1 votes

When his ultimate breaks, it makes 3 boxes appear, it should be pretty clear to you since you wrote it in your post...

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

they're miniboxes and die faster, and now they can't stack, I preferred the old explosion and just deleting someone

Shac Norris1 votes

The miniboxes are really just there to CC people, it shouldnt even be boxes that spawn, i'd be more fine with a gas being released that force champs to use their laugh animations for a bit.

The fact that boxes can'T stack anymore is a good thing, but i wish that you could stack 2 instead of none.

I always went support Shaco, and put 3 boxes near a wall, and had my adc take a hard CC spell at lv 1, to get an easy first blood almost every game, so it was kind of broken. Not late game, but early game yeah.

But now they have even more options to disable invisible traps, an item that EVERY SINGLE AD ASSASSIN build everygame now disables wards and traps simply by being near them, so FUN, they removed NONE of Shaco's/teemo's counterplay bullshit and then added some more. ITS LIKE RIOT DONT WANT US TO PLAY HIM.

AvadaKidavra2 votes

Totally agree with you. Needs to be buffed ASAP

MyNameAintNick2 votes

The akali changes were definitely a huge nerf.

Shaco doesn't need to be good, cancerous playstyle.

Alawii961 votes

Well, I kinda agree that she used to be better. But shes still playable ! U can still get this triple in the botlane

While shaco cant do any of what he used to do but running away

hhaavviikk1 votes

same could be said for allot of champions, doesn't mean they should be dumpsterd

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Tell me that you didn't want prime urgot third nipple dumpstered. As an old main I know dam well how broken that shxt was.

Sherlock Clones2 votes

Revert shaco back to the way he was, problem solved. He legit sucks right now

Michael Sykes1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sherlock Clones,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QtrmUfo0,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-17T14:01:13.053+0000)

Revert shaco back to the way he was, problem solved. He legit sucks right now

statistically he is in a good spot.

TequilaZombie2 votes

Statistically he was in a good spot before.

Shac Norris1 votes

I guess that only a champion's main can know his weaknesses.

Especially Shaco.

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

The thing is yes. they buffed his utility so people build him as a tank/ap now since AD assassin shaco blows.

Which I find weird. he was supposed to be an assassin.

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

I just wish they would revert shaco to before preseason :( I love going ap and it feels more difficult, (maybe it's just me) Btw i've never gone ad shaco and the anti-stacking prevents me from deathbushing :( or having full build as ap(with luch bane) and goings: q then hit them, E and smite on the squishy champs :3

also in every game i'm against a shaco they would always go ad, I guess i just found ap more fun

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Box spread is better chain cc and still get kills.

Box stacking was just a noob trap which 3 different items(especially new duskblade) would stop.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

If akali was a buff, you're smoking.

Shaco only had his AD nerfed.

W is far superior to old, box stacking was a NOOB TRAP spacing out boxes for chain cc>>>>box trap which 1 AoE destroyed anyways

E is better than the old, 5 damage is wrong it starts off with more base than old due to TOTAL AD along with the execute. It does more than old normal E. While only losing 20% bonus AD of back hits. The base is there, the AP ratio compensated.

R- just has additional cc and damage could be more reliable but it's fine for now.

Q- There's actually a reason it does lower damage for AD, the new Q excludes your AA from the damage. So not only are you missing a chunk for AD, but requires an additional hit to proc TLD. While the stealth I wish rank 1 was 2 seconds because you can work with that. Stealth gap closers early game are a balance issue but constantly having to put 2 points pre-5 just for FUNCTIONALITY is BS.

Passive-simply put should scale to normal crit amounts but cannot stack with IE. Tired of constantly having to buy IE just for the passive, and IE is useless from the front.

Overall the rework addressed 2 balance issues. AS+Crit on assassins causing sustained dps and early game stealth gap closers.

But now rank 1 stealth is too low so we're forced to put 2 points in it early for it to function and we're forced to buy a useless item(6th item IE) just to make back attacks work. I'd be fine with the Q damage if passive scaled better late game(no ie stacking to compensate) and rank 1 stealth was 2 seconds.

Overall getting AD shaco to work with full lethality+IE. But really needs those 2 changes so shaco could get something like a triforce for cdr or upgrade tiamat for wave lear or something that just isn't a back attack only IE.

Kohei Tsujikaze1 votes

I think Shaco' s Q and W got nerfed too much, and returning it to its old state would be much better

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