Stealth and healing.. Please address them

Treal OP··6 votes·796 views

These are 2 problems that become glaringly obvious if you favor champions that have stealth or healing mechanics. With morellonomicon and the reintroduction of executioner's calling, Champions like Dr. Mundo, Vladimir and Sorraka become a lot less viable. What's the point of playing a champion if their ultimate is cut in power by 50% because 1 person on a 5 man enemy team built an item that was already extremely cost efficient without the grievous wounds.

The stealth mechanic is even more problematic (in my probably biased opinion as a filthy Shaco main). Other champions like Akali, and Teemo are struggling (and Rengar somewhat) as you go higher in the rankings, everyone makes it their priority to buy pink wards and upgrade vision to shut you down. Akali is a free kill with 1 pink ward or oracles sweeper, teemos ult is soft countered by the same mechanic, and shaco and rengar are sitting ducks if caught out before making it to their target in stealth.

I'm sure this is very common knowledge to most of you, and I'm sure it's been brought up before, but it's a big problem for the few of us stubborn enough to want to main champions that use these mechanics.

I often hear riot developers, analysts, etc. talking about how "there is no counter play" to an ability, champion, or strategy; but should "hard counter" play be available to every champion in the game via an item that costs 100g and you can have 2 of at a time or a trinket that doesn't even take up an item slot? What's my counter play to that? Don't fight? Split push? Bank on the enemy not buying pink wards? The counter play to shaco is peels, exhaust, and burst damage/cc.

I had a game the other day where I was left with support and there was a Rengar on the enemy team, and being that he is very similar to shaco just having more offensive utility than defensive, I picked Allistar, and it worked beautifully. Head butt him away when he jumps your carries, easy. Most supports can peel just as easily and stop bruisers and less mobile assassins in their tracks (Janna comes to mind). But for some reason riot thinks it's necessary to leave these champions gimped, and their kits easily countered, while they buff AD carries...

There's really no counter argument that is valid that I can think of for why these issues are still relevant. I understand playing around pink wards and such; and that these champions, although extremely easy to counter are still to some degree playable, but stealth and healing are still very key parts of a hand full of champion's kits.

My 2 cents: Pink wards are for vision control, and denying vision, as they are in most games without a stealther, so remove their ability to see champions. Ward deep vs shacos, his stealth lasts 3 seconds. Rengar gives u a giant exclamation point that he's near you, and Akali is in a small circle. Teemo's mushrooms are essentially 1 of his 2 abilities, and have received several damage nerfs. Remove or reduce grievous wounds to ~20%, and/or put them on a longer active use cool down. Just realized I forgot twitch. Eve has her snare break move speed and a huge shield so I don't think she suffers nearly as much.

14 Comments

pripustas2 votes

Talon is kind of in the same boat as Akali. He has stealth on his ult, but he needs ult damage to kill someone. So you end up either not finishing your job, or doing it and dying. I don't know why they made Talon invisible while ult is active only. It would make more sense that he turned invisible AFTER ulting. I mean if they wanted him being able to stealth and then jump in, they did a very poor job on calculating damage, because he needs both ult phases to hit, to kill someone in a teamfight.

Yosuke Apperu2 votes

As a Talon main, I'd have to say that may make him too safe.. Plus It'd destroy your chances of catching someone out as assassins like to do. Nothing like a youmuu's-ulti-cutthroat to gank from half a lane away XD

pripustas1 votes

Well I mean Leblanc, Khazix, Kassadin, Fizz, Katarina, Zed, Shaco, Ekko, Nidalee all have ways to escape after killing enemy. Talon doesn't :/ If you don't want for assassin to escape after killing someone, might as well make a champ with 1 skill called "die with me" which kills 1 target 100% of the times, and kills you aswell. That's what Talon is like atm if enemy is decent. Well I guess he gets a bit of damage on other enemies with W, R

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

As Vapora (A Diamond Talon Main) Has said.. "He doesn't snowball. He avalanches" If you do manage to get ahead as talon you can pull off triples on squishies with relative ease if they're grouped.. He has a huge amount of aoe, and because of that they have to watch what they do with him. My fastest time killing someone I believe was a lee sin who told me that his death timer said .87 seconds. Anyways He's scary when ahead so they have to be careful what they give him.

pripustas1 votes

Every assassin is scary when ahead. Fizz can delete everyone without ult when he's fed. Katarina can 1x5 if enemy is bad, Leblanc can 1 shot and escape to where she was on 0.5 second. Nidalee.. Rengar! Rengar is way scarier than Talon will ever be.. I had a game yesterday against a fed kitty, you can't even react when you see ! you die instantly. He would 1shot me while I had item 3157 item 3082 item 1011 rly, 1shot, not even a combo. Just Q and I die :D

I think my fastest killing time was something like 0.2seconds, because I didn't see what killed my enemy. I started with my ult activated, and the moment I pressed E I immediately heard "you have slain an enemy" I didn't even see my animations (enemy was full hp tho) and I have a decent computer.

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

You're sure he didnt, hit you with his he, 2 q's and a hydra proc? It all hits at once so sometimes its hard to tell

pripustas1 votes

No, that's the point xD I zhonya'd right as I saw ! he still jumped on me, but did no damage. then right after I went out of zhonya he used Q to insta delete me. Now, to be fair, my teammates fed him nice and juicy :D but I don't think that should be possible in this situation.

PokladnicaZla2 votes

item 3165 and new EC reduces only self-heals,so our beloved Soraka is good.

BTW personaly I think %HP true damage is more problematic than healing anf stealth.

BluePolarizer1 votes

Here's the secret about Rengar: He does give the enemy a warning, but if you have Ghostblade and the trinket passive that lets you boost movespeed when out of combat, they will only see the ! mark in time to open the shop window, assuming you have the mechanics and items to 1 shot.

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

So Tiamat/Hydra while being even with the enemy adc/slightly ahead? :P

BluePolarizer1 votes

basically yes. item 3077 item 3142 item 1001 .

KrashKourse1 votes

Salt is strong here

Ziovi1 votes

I know this doesn't change your point, but i just wanted to say that they are going to change grievous wounds so that it wil affect only self-heals, which means soraka won't suffer at all from the new items. Mundo and vlad are screwed, though.

Kharn Skyshatter1 votes

Eve gets dumpstered so much because Riot hates stealth (or players don't like to adapt to stealth champs so will argue for nerfs). Its why Twitch got hard nerfed as well. Lets see if Twitch gets nerfed again before or during S6 though with the cheaper pinks.

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