Why did you remove f***ing Runes?????

zXˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉ·Jan 19, 2018·8 votes·1,684 views

dude, after so many years, you had the runes cost reduced.. finally... and what you do then? you remove them, why reduce the costs when u remove them anyways ? and all we have now are 6 or 7 mastery points that we can chose, some of them beeing total garbage, like scorch, i mean wtf?

how can i do my own builds now? its so shit. and dont tell me "oh ppl used to go for same builds anyways" no i didnt. i loved going for niche builds, using shid like xp runes just to get my level up first and all ining somebody, getting me the kill.

this is so bullshit. yea the masteries are a bit stronger then before, but it still sucks.

35 Comments

MasterDCloneJan 19, 20183 votes

no niche builds what are you talking about you just have to look for new ones because the new runes give you plenty of new opportunities like going the rune that heals you when you cc allows me to go ardent censor shaco support which is tons of fun. And uh where have you been the last few months there is this great build abusing transcendence which is full black cleaver zed or talon or riven. Full movement speed hecarim became viable.

The runes price were reduced because since they were getting rid of them anyway they decided to let people try plenty of them out which i did have fun with because going full crit chance yasuo lvl 1 is fun but before the reduced price i had 2 rune pages sharing a lot of the same runes and one was ad shaco and the other was ap champions that's it i didn't have the ip to spend on runes that barely did anything unless you bought the good ones which were like 2k ip EACH. Also the fact that some people who have been playing for longer get a big stat boost just because they used all their ip on runes while you used yours to try new champions out.

And let's be honest the old runes and masteries were a pretty boring system that change on the game to game while now i make a new runepage for every game because it affects you're every game.

Starting out in league was pretty awful because when you start out you struggled to get a 450 champ so what makes you think people would even bother to look at runes when they are counting on f2p every week to see what there playing but now they are free and accessible to all which is a definitive improvement

and the individual runes vary based on each champ which is another improvement, teemo can really abuse aery, ultimate hat, and scorch while someone like vi may not but but vi will use press the attack and alacrity to help her own jungle clear. I have seen others with similar thoughts on the subject but you are a very small minority of players who actually enjoed the runes probably because you already owned every champ so you all the runes available and could actually think about what runes you bringing.

The one thing i miss from that system is the 1% crit rune. That rune was byfar the funeest rune in both systems to date just because of how good it makes you feel when you kill someone with it

zXˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉJan 19, 20184 votes

show me how i can get to lane with 40 armor.

or with extra xp.

otherwise im not even gonna read this.

OxyrottenJan 19, 20182 votes

It's not worth reading, it's the same bullshit ghostcrawler fed us when he removed complex stat building from WoW.

The runes were removed to cut the learning curve for bads, noobs, casuals, and younger kids. It's a marketing ploy.

People just regurgitate the same bs excuses not having thought about how they are so full of holes you can grate cheese with them.

zXˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉJan 19, 20183 votes

yea it just looks like riot once again simply wanted to make something "new" for the sake of it. they could have kept the runes, and made those new masteries, everthing would have been fine.

dont even know why they call it runes, it should be called masteries because thats what it was before. they simply removed the rune system. and thats it and reworked the masteries. thats all they did.

and some masteries now may be fun for some champs, but not for all. runes could be used for all champs. you could customize them for your own playstyle and match ups.

now you cant do anything, all you can do is chose those 6-7 masteries and thats it.

it just feels like total garbage now. and basically its all about the keystones anyways.

absolute 100% garbage.

OxyrottenJan 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

yea it just looks like riot once again simply wanted to make something "new" for the sake of it. they could have kept the runes, and made those new masteries, everthing would have been fine.

dont even know why they call it runes, it should be called masteries because thats what it was before. they simply removed the rune system. and thats it and reworked the masteries. thats all they did.

Because it makes the pill easier to swallow, it's a marketing ploy to get us to accept it.

and some masteries now may be fun for some champs, but not for all. runes could be used for all champs. you could customize them for your own playstyle and match ups.

now you cant do anything, all you can do is chose those 6-7 masteries and thats it.

Yep.

it just feels like total garbage now. and basically its all about the keystones anyways.

absolute 100% garbage.

Truth. But it makes Riot more money.

MasterDCloneJan 19, 20182 votes

those runes had no learning curve they were litteraly just base stats that's it. these new runes you have to adapt your playstyle around and take a lot more time and effort to learn.

Im not making any excuses for anything im just telling you that these new runes are far better the the old broken system

zXˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉJan 19, 20182 votes

wtf ?? how do i need time to learn "klepto ezreal" ? what do i need to "Learn" with that huh ? let alone the fact that some of them are literally the same -> walk around and get extra dmg. walk around and get more ms. walk around and get more hp. wth ?

this is soooo garbage, absolute garbage.

and he defenetely has a point. beginners (bronze silver) had no clue about runes and im pretty sure they complained alot. and since bronze silvers make up most of the community, its WAY easier for them now. just chose your garbage ass masteries and watch them in game do some fancy stuff.

nothing needs to be learned.

they could have made new masteries but keep the runes.

fuck off

MasterDCloneJan 19, 20182 votes

The masteries werent the problem the runes were and yes anyone in low elo just had the base of what they did but that'sonly because they couldn't afford them the new ones are easier because they are free and are accessible to all but are more complex then here some players with more ip will have more armor and damage than you because they have played for longer. while now some are quit simple but even klepto ezreal you need to adapt your playstyle around that and i can assure you that people playing press the attak ez and people playing klepto ez have very different playstyles

Runes reforged Is a combination of aspects from both systems which had flaws. Not to say the new system doesn't have flaws but it is an improvement

OxyrottenJan 19, 20182 votes

This is exactly my point, cutting the learning curve. No the runes did not, but the game and stat building did.

Although you are exactly right, now you have to adapt your playstyle to the runes, before you could adapt your runes to your playstyle, and your champ, and your team comp, and your lane strategy, and your team strategy, and your matchups, and your countering, and so on..

Before you were able to adaptively play, now you are forced to play the way Riot says to, simple because Riot didn't like that people just min max'ed, so now they FORCE you to min max. That makes no sense. Then we look at ghostcrawler who used the same min max argument at blizz before he cost them half their playerbase (7 million players lost in 2 years that he worked there before coming to Riot). And those same excuses? Turns out they just wanted to cut the learning curve to make the game more friendly to bads, new players, casuals, and younger kids...

The new runes are not better, the new runes don't exist, they gave flat buffs and universal buffs to champs without consideration and call them runes. Calling them runes is just a marketing ploy to get you to buy into the fact that they cut out a decent chunk of the game's complexity and strategy and theorycrafting just to make it easier to learn to play.

MasterDCloneJan 19, 20181 votes

I dont really care what happened with WOW it issn't my problem i don't play the game if something doesn't work there it doesn't mean it can't work here. I don't see where the marketing ploy for riot is in this situation cuz the way i see it is they lost money doing this because you are no longer able to purchace runes or rune page with money which did in fact make them a lot of money, on top of that they gave those who bought rune pages with money free skins. So i don't see what riot is gaining economically out of this.

Lastly nobody is telling you to play the way riot is telling you to play because even with these new runes you can still theory craft new strategies synergizing your runes, your champions and your. A lot of these new runes like relentless hunter and ghost poro are helping many of my very off -meta strats like zed their jg where i spend the entire game counter jungling. while in the old runes if you didn't go the recommended rune page ON MOST CHAMPIONS it was far weaker than anything and in fact limiting your own choices.

Say what you will but the vast majority of players would agree that this is an improvement

OxyrottenJan 19, 20181 votes

My point isn't that the changes didn't work at WoW, it's that the changes did work at WoW. But let's keep it relevant shall we.

Your still able to purchase rune pages by the way, but since they are useless that just becomes a sink. The ploy is two fold, one it's just a wording trick "runes reforged" when they aren't runes at all, runes were removed. Secondly they transitioned IP into BE/OE and implemented loot rewards.

This is an entirely different topic however, so to keep it brief; loot rewards is a casino parlor trick, you think your getting more, you get less, and you buy more to make up the difference without realizing it. Secondly the IP/BE change deflates the value of BE, so even though your (now after much complaining) getting roughly the same BE as you were with IP, the BE is still worth less than IP (again encouraging sales). The other factor is that "loot" rewards is rng based, but it's not really rng since the drop percentages are controlled and lowered so that you loose value upon investment.

But like I said that's an entirely different issue than rune removal. Riot is telling you how to play now, since before you had options, and now you have hard coded presets. We are not talking about masteries, masteries are separate from runes. Runes used to be customizable pages and now they simply don't exist. This was done in favor of preset flat buffs, and universal stat buffs, both of which we don't need and are forced upon you. In fact these universal buffs severely hurt the state of the game and only added to several game balance issues that Riot has been building on, mobility creep, and damage creep just to name a couple.

Before you could build off meta strats much more effectively because you could tailor your base stats to fit your needs, whatever those needs may be. Now you simply can not. There's just no way to argue that. Remember we are talking about runes, not masteries. Besides the fact that this was all done as Ghostcrawler put it, to remove min max'ing, but you can't remove min max'ing from a game, it's just not possible. So that's an obvious lie. And then they remove min max'ing by forcing us to min max? Does that make sense to you? Your argument that old runes were limited by viable choices is exactly that, a fallacy. Remember viable means optimal for competitive (ranked) play. In that sense you are much more limited now than you were before, again don't confuse runes for masteries, that's part of Riot's wordplay trick. But let's talk about casual play, (people shouldn't have to spend hours and hours studying how to build right?), before you could design (unviable but fun) any number of builds that may not have been viable but were still effective. Now you can not, there just isn't that option. There's just no way around that point.

I could give you specific examples if you would like, but hopefully you are starting to understand what really happened as opposed to what Riot told you happened.

MasterDCloneJan 19, 20182 votes

It's quite simple you can't. because that how change works somethings you just keep to make room for the clear better option. It is also more fair because everyone is on equal footing at the start of a match without having someone with more xp just cuz

zXˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉJan 19, 20182 votes

exactly i cant. they took away that option and now all i have left is 6-7 semi-decent masteries (fucking stop calling it runes!), wich only the keystones aand some op ones´ are important.

total bullshit. i cant prepare my champ for certain match ups anymore. all i have are these garbage ass masteries. fcking greeat.

MasterDCloneJan 19, 20182 votes

if you don't want to take the time to learn the new runes and see they're pros and cons then that's up to you but i am merely answering your question on why the old runes were removed nothing more. And if you ask a question on the boards when someone gives you an answer you should probably read it even if they are'nt saying what you want to hear

OxyrottenJan 19, 20182 votes

This is such a misnomer. It does not create equal footing, equality was achieved in the old system, people just don't understand the dynamics at play so they think it was unequal, but that just stems from laziness.

There was no time constraints in the old system (out of game) like there are in MMORPG's. That is part of what sets moba's apart from mmorpgs's. Because there are no time constraints, there is absolutely no reason you can't have the same runes as your opponent going in to the same match. If you choose to play without the runes (because you can't afford them or for whatever reason) then that is your fault, not the games fault.

In fact, grinding for IP used to provide further game content for League, but now out of game is simply aesthetic.

MasterDCloneJan 19, 20182 votes

runes in the old system were honetly just a chore to grind for it was really one of the reasons i became a one trick is because i wanted to explore more champion possibilities without having to sacrifice my power levels in the ranked scene so i bought general runes for other champions and then a bunch of really expensive runes to benefit shaco jg otherwise at the start of every game i would be at an immense dissadvantage. when i had my runes i rarely changed them because they worked for me but they were'nt exiting like they are now. I may be a little bias just because i love dark harvest it has made shaco viable again but nevertheless even if equality amongst players could be achieved it doesn't mean it was. If you dont play a lot you won't have as much ip then the other players it's not nessessarily lazyness more that people have lives outside of the game so it isn't fair that one person who plays a lot more than another be put an advantage over a player who plays less but they are both at the same relative skill level. It isn't about understanding the dynamics it was just who spent more time or money on the game that would generally come out on top if the players were of the same skill level. While now it is purely on who a) outskills the other b) abuse their runes on their champion better.

OxyrottenJan 19, 20182 votes

Sure grinding is supposed to be a chore. So your essentially saying that games should no longer have grinding aspects? That's not healthy for gaming. By that logic we shouldn't get gold for cs, and items should just be free. See how that doesn't make sense? Out of game aspects are the same (minus time constraints), your saying you should be able to play ranked without being ready to play ranked. So in order to accomplish that just remove any barrier to entry so anyone can play ranked without being ready to play ranked. That just doesn't make sense. But it's the kind of attitude that Riot is catering to and subsequently ruining our game, just to please people who don't want to actually play the game because they pay the bills.

Playing a lot or a little shouldn't be a factor. Why shouldn't someone who plays a lot have an advantage over someone who plays casually? Like is there an honest reason for that? If you were in an mmo do you think someone who just plays a few hours a month should be able to join raids and play at the same level of effectiveness at end game content as someone else who plays for hours every night? How is that fair? Talk about inequality, you just handed the same benefits to casuals as the active players get who spend hours and hours playing... Just because someone doesn't want to put the effort in to actually earn the rewards? Should bums get the same paychecks as people who have worked their entire lives at a career? That just doesn't make sense to me.

And that's not the dynamics I was speaking of, what I meant was that part of mmo's has always been resource management. In particularly or as it applies to our case, management of time and money (earned game currency, IP). If someone takes the time to research the champions, what class they are, what their skills are, how their skills scale, what roles they fill, etc. And then takes the time to research the what runes will best suit that playstyle, role, etc, and then what runes will best fit a number of champions in that fashion so that he can plan out how to spend his earned currency. Are you saying he shouldn't have an advantage for planning and spending wisely? That he shouldn't have an advantage compared to some kid who just impulse bought whatever champion they wanted and doesn't actually learn the game to know what runes he needs? Or that the kid who took the champion into a game without learning the game to know that he needs runes, or specific runes, to be competitive?

I mean you mentioned it should just be skill based competition, but isn't learning the game and the stats and mechanics part of skill? And beyond that isn't skill a learned trait that someone who has played a lot longer should have more of? How do you think removing runes helped that? Your logic just seems so flawed I don't understand at all. Could you please explain?

MasterDCloneJan 19, 20181 votes

For that first bit I am going to clear it up because what I meant isn't that the grind was a chore it's getting the individual runes. Because I love to grind for a new Champion or to grind for lp but i found buying and managing my runes a chore but if i didn't do it i would be at disadvantage.

For the second bit(i don't know how to use quotes so this will be my format) In normals and in game-modes what you say is completely correct. But i am mostly talking about the ranked scene since that is all I play and when I play ranked I want to play the game with everyone on equal-footing because it isn't fair that people with less skill could just pay to win with runes. I have a duo he has been playing since season 2 he has all the champions and had all the runes in the game while I had started early season 6 and when I started playing ranked in season 7 I had a handful of champions and a measly amount of runes. I play a lot more than him on the daily because he finished the grind so he didn't need to play and he knew that he would have an advantage over others. Im not saying that some bum who just joine a company should have the same paycheck as others but when we put people in a place where it is entirely based on skill there shouldn't be a money factor for who determines the outcome.

People still need to research all of what you said on their champions and they need to trial and error to see which of new runes would give you maximum value in a game. if somebody learns there champion to such a extent over someone who just picks up champion player A should win no problem but he should win entirely based on skill and not with those extra stats. E.G; Two swordsman go into a match to determine who is better last one alive wins. Swordsman A is new swordsman and doesn't fully understand it and goes in whith nor armor and a dagger. WHile swordsman B goes in with a claymore and a full set of armor who will win. but if they are each going in with the same weapon and the same armor swordsman B should still win but this time with skill allone.

Lastly learning the game is important and every one should do it regardless and if they have learned their stats and their mechanics and yes someone who has played longer should have but not always I'll take my duo for example he has been playing a lot longer and has everything but we are of the same skill level we both ended silver 2 because it should be about who plays more in each season rather that overall because he played a lot in seasons 3,4,5 but in season six he slowed down and in season 7 he climbed but he wasn't as good as before but in every matchup he had a huge statbuff over his opponnent that might be better than him.

OxyrottenJan 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

For that first bit I am going to clear it up because what I meant isn't that the grind was a chore it's getting the individual runes. Because I love to grind for a new Champion or to grind for lp but i found buying and managing my runes a chore but if i didn't do it i would be at disadvantage.

But that is part of how the game is played, you are effectively saying you only want to play specific parts of the game that you like, and other parts that require learning or work should be removed. That doesn't create equality that creates laziness, which in the long run further separates the equality.

For the second bit(i don't know how to use quotes so this will be my format) In normals and in game-modes what you say is completely correct. But i am mostly talking about the ranked scene since that is all I play and when I play ranked I want to play the game with everyone on equal-footing because it isn't fair that people with less skill could just pay to win with runes. I have a duo he has been playing since season 2 he has all the champions and had all the runes in the game while I had started early season 6 and when I started playing ranked in season 7 I had a handful of champions and a measly amount of runes. I play a lot more than him on the daily because he finished the grind so he didn't need to play and he knew that he would have an advantage over others. Im not saying that some bum who just joine a company should have the same paycheck as others but when we put people in a place where it is entirely based on skill there shouldn't be a money factor for who determines the outcome.

Quotes can be done with >

Ranked is fine to discuss since that is what the game is intended for and balanced for. But your making a serious misunderstanding of the game already. The situation isn't that people can pay for an advantage, since that advantage is made available to everyone regardless of paying or not. It is attainable through earned in game currency. AND there are no time constraints out of game, so there is nothing saying you have to play that person when you do not have a rune advantage yourself. Thinking that you do, is the misunderstanding as a byproduct of laziness that I spoke of. Your friend had all the runes because he worked for them, you have the SAME EXACT OPPORTUNITY that your friend has, you can work equally the same and earn the exact same runes as him. Nothing is preventing you from doing that. To think that you do not have the same opportunity as him is a grave misunderstanding of the game.

People still need to research all of what you said on their champions and they need to trial and error to see which of new runes would give you maximum value in a game. if somebody learns there champion to such a extent over someone who just picks up champion player A should win no problem but he should win entirely based on skill and not with those extra stats. E.G; Two swordsman go into a match to determine who is better last one alive wins. Swordsman A is new swordsman and doesn't fully understand it and goes in whith nor armor and a dagger. WHile swordsman B goes in with a claymore and a full set of armor who will win. but if they are each going in with the same weapon and the same armor swordsman B should still win but this time with skill allone.

My point is that they do not. Remember again, we are not talking about masteries, we are talking about RUNES. And RUNES were removed from the game. There is no research into runes necessary anymore. In the case of the old system, part of knowing your champ was knowing what runes would best benefit the situation, that is earned skill, or rather learned skill, not bought. Part of swordplay is learning your weapons in and out and knowing the advantages of one weapon over the other. If Swordsman A practices with his dagger and is faster and more agile without armor and studies his opponents weaknesses and soft spots in his armor, then he should still be allowed a chance to win with his dagger. Part of skill is that learning that comes from experience and research.

"A true warrior enters the battle with all his weapons at the ready" - Akuma, runes are just one of those weapons.

Lastly learning the game is important and every one should do it regardless and if they have learned their stats and their mechanics and yes someone who has played longer should have but not always I'll take my duo for example he has been playing a lot longer and has everything but we are of the same skill level we both ended silver 2 because it should be about who plays more in each season rather that overall because he played a lot in seasons 3,4,5 but in season six he slowed down and in season 7 he climbed but he wasn't as good as before but in every matchup he had a huge statbuff over his opponnent that might be better than him.

Your again making the mistake, the stat buff creates equality as well as diversity, because your opponent can have that exact same stat buff. There is nothing preventing that. Nothing. No pay wall, no barrier to entry, no time requirements, no hours played, nothing. Absolutely nothing says you or your opponent can not have the same rune advantage.

MasterDCloneJan 20, 20181 votes

But that is part of how the game is played, you are effectively saying you only want to play specific parts of the game that you like, and other parts that require learning or work should be removed. That doesn't create equality that creates laziness, which in the long run further separates the equality.

So you're saying that in the system that everybody has the same start to every game is less equal than a sytem when only those who have played for longer get extra boosts in game. I don't think you know what equality means.

Also I never said I didn't like the grind for ip I loved getting ip it's just I don't know anyone who enjoyed spend 20 k ip on runes after grinding for it for so long. I would much rather spend my ip on champions to try them out and see which ones I enjoy. Next Up your saying that those that don't spend dozens of hours a day in front of a computer screen to grind for ip and runes and instead go and do things with their own lives are the lazy ones. That doesn't make anysense.

Ranked is fine to discuss since that is what the game is intended for and balanced for. But your making a serious misunderstanding of the game already. The situation isn't that people can pay for an advantage, since that advantage is made available to everyone regardless of paying or not. It is attainable through earned in game currency. AND there are no time constraints out of game, so there is nothing saying you have to play that person when you do not have a rune advantage yourself. Thinking that you do, is the misunderstanding as a byproduct of laziness that I spoke of. Your friend had all the runes because he worked for them, you have the SAME EXACT OPPORTUNITY that your friend has, you can work equally the same and earn the exact same runes as him. Nothing is preventing you from doing that. To think that you do not have the same opportunity as him is a grave misunderstanding of the game.

My friend has been playing for 5 years more than me and grinding it for 5 YEARS over me so he could get them all and i played like 4 times as much as him in my year and a half of play and I could barely get the 16min champs with a good set of runes on my main and my backup anyone else i didn't have the ip for. The point is I don't have the same opportunity as him because i havn't been playing my whole life, if i work equally the same as him it would take me 1 year to get a full rune page he is so lazy because he doesn't have to grind anymore he walks to every game with an advantage just because he has been here for longer. And no I don't have the same opportunity because I can't go back through time and start in season 2.

My point is that they do not. Remember again, we are not talking about masteries, we are talking about RUNES. And RUNES were removed from the game. There is no research into runes necessary anymore. In the case of the old system, part of knowing your champ was knowing what runes would best benefit the situation, that is earned skill, or rather learned skill, not bought.

You do have to research your runes to see which one would affect your champion and why and then test it out with multiple builds until you find you match and they get changed so you just do it in this loop. When the runes came out the shaclone community discord were all arguing over which runes work or not on him and it was a lot of fun to try all the builds that work base on your runes before the change nobody argued over what flat stat rune was better we all followed on what shaclone was using and copied it because he had found the optimal rune page for bruiser shaco and everytime he changed a rune we all did it was very straight forward.

Part of swordplay is learning your weapons in and out and knowing the advantages of one weapon over the other. If Swordsman A practices with his dagger and is faster and more agile without armor and studies his opponents weaknesses and soft spots in his armor, then he should still be allowed a chance to win with his dagger. Part of skill is that learning that comes from experience and research.

My point isn't that they have been practising with said weapon it's that they both enter having practised swordsmanship but then when they enter one is given a dagger and the other is being given his weapon of choice and his armor simply because he has been there long enough to earn it, that would be a huge dissadvantage. The point isn't that they sould both be given the same fair chance regardless of who has practised longer and who has done it for longer in the aspects that aren't related with you skill like your armor and your weapon of choice.

Your again making the mistake, the stat buff creates equality as well as diversity, because your opponent can have that exact same stat buff. There is nothing preventing that. Nothing. No pay wall, no barrier to entry, no time requirements, no hours played, nothing. Absolutely nothing says you or your opponent can not have the same rune advantage.

but there is a time restraint not everyone has the time to spare in their live to dedicated just for a couple of runes that isn't being lazy that's called spending time playing other games or doing something with your life, and the hours played is what decides which ever one of you has the most hours played normally has more and better runes which should'nt determine the outcome.

OxyrottenJan 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So you're saying that in the system that everybody has the same start to every game is less equal than a sytem when only those who have played for longer get extra boosts in game. I don't think you know what equality means.

Everybody had the same start in the old system, your point is invalid. Equality is achieved through offering everyone the exact same opportunities, which is exactly what we had in the old system.

Also I never said I didn't like the grind for ip I loved getting ip it's just I don't know anyone who enjoyed spend 20 k ip on runes after grinding for it for so long. I would much rather spend my ip on champions to try them out and see which ones I enjoy. Next Up your saying that those that don't spend dozens of hours a day in front of a computer screen to grind for ip and runes and instead go and do things with their own lives are the lazy ones. That doesn't make anysense.

You didn't enjoy finally getting to play a champ to it's fullest potential? And remember, enjoyment is subjective, which automatically disqualifies it from equality. And that's not what I am saying, what I am saying is that those that choose to dedicate their time to any effort, deserve to reap greater rewards than those who don't. What your saying just doesn't make sense, should someone who drops out of school get the same job as someone who goes to a university and dedicates 8 years of their life to learning and earning their way into a profession? Your essentially saying that drop out deserves the same job because he had other things to do than go to school...

My friend has been playing for 5 years more than me and grinding it for 5 YEARS over me so he could get them all and i played like 4 times as much as him in my year and a half of play and I could barely get the 16min champs with a good set of runes on my main and my backup anyone else i didn't have the ip for. The point is I don't have the same opportunity as him because i havn't been playing my whole life, if i work equally the same as him it would take me 1 year to get a full rune page he is so lazy because he doesn't have to grind anymore he walks to every game with an advantage just because he has been here for longer. And no I don't have the same opportunity because I can't go back through time and start in season 2.

Your again misunderstanding the situation, you still have every opportunity to put in as much time as he has put in. There is absolutely no rule saying you can't earn as much in game currency as he has. There is absolutely no rule saying you can't buy the same runes that he had. There is absolutely no rule saying you can't buy the same champs he has. There is absolutely no rule saying you don't have the same opportunity that he has. You are the only one saying that you are limited, your under the misunderstanding that you can't spend as much time as he has on the game. Nobody is saying you can't put in the time and effort that he has, but you... If you are unwilling to do that (because you have a life or whatever reason), THAT IS ON YOU, that is not a design flaw of the game... You make that choice. Nobody else.

You do have to research your runes to see which one would affect your champion and why and then test it out with multiple builds until you find you match and they get changed so you just do it in this loop. When the runes came out the shaclone community discord were all arguing over which runes work or not on him and it was a lot of fun to try all the builds that work base on your runes before the change nobody argued over what flat stat rune was better we all followed on what shaclone was using and copied it because he had found the optimal rune page for bruiser shaco and everytime he changed a rune we all did it was very straight forward.

Again your mistaking runes for masteries. And beyond that your point is still invalid, there is no way to remove optimal builds from the game. There just isn't. Riot was lying to you when they said that is what they were doing. How long did it take for shaclone or pink ward to find an optimal build and then everyone copied them? Every MF runs comet, every EZ runs klepto, there just isn't any way to remove optimal builds, there just isn't. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to run off meta builds. That is effectively what Riot said, that since the majority of people don't run off meta builds that they removed off meta builds...

Now I know your going to say but Oxy, we can choose any number of keystones, again your mistaking runes for masteries, we are not talking about masteries. Beyond that runes gave you the option to augment off meta builds to make them more effective, we can no longer do that making off meta builds even harder to run successfully. Riot limited our choices, there is just no way around it. Runes gave us more options. Runes are gone. Those options are gone. Period.

My point isn't that they have been practising with said weapon it's that they both enter having practised swordsmanship but then when they enter one is given a dagger and the other is being given his weapon of choice and his armor simply because he has been there long enough to earn it, that would be a huge dissadvantage. The point isn't that they sould both be given the same fair chance regardless of who has practised longer and who has done it for longer in the aspects that aren't related with you skill like your armor and your weapon of choice.

Following your example, the one with armor loaded his rune page with attack damage and armor runes. Figure that he is like darius, big heavy cleaving attack swinging his claymore. The other loaded his page with movespeed so that he could step back from the telegraphed cleave, then close the distance and attack with his dagger (loaded with crit chance runes) so that he could find that gap in the armor, or crit damage runes so that he could slide the dagger into an exposed part.

This creates a greater application of skill, meaning it is not just two people with the same damage the same armor etc, that takes some skill to outplay, but introducing different elements to boost the strategy (such as forgoing the heavy sword and armor in favor of a dagger and agility) makes the skill cap so much higher. It allows people to strategize and outplay in so many different ways. That is increasing the skill involved, not decreasing it. Does that make sense? By removing runes, your lowering the skill ceiling, which makes it unfair for skilled players. This is wrong and unhealthy for a competitive game.

but there is a time restraint not everyone has the time to spare in their live to dedicated just for a couple of runes that isn't being lazy that's called spending time playing other games or doing something with your life, and the hours played is what decides which ever one of you has the most hours played normally has more and better runes which should'nt determine the outcome.

That is not a time constraint of the game. That is a time constraint of YOU or the player. That is called being lazy, you want something but you don't want to earn it. So because you don't want to put in the hours, you think you deserve the same as everyone who did put in the hours? How does that seem fair to you? That's like going to the olympics saying I have kids and a family and didn't have time to practice, so no one is allowed to do fancy gymnastics, we are only going to compete at summersaults because it's not fair to me that everyone else spent all year practicing. That's not fair, that's not fair at all, that's laziness.

MasterDCloneJan 20, 20181 votes

This is becoming pointless we are both agreeing to disagree and we both said what we came to say neither of us are gonna change our point of view on this so I'm gonna put this message as my last one on this topic because this is going nowhere.

For example on your gymnastic example you think that those who don't practice because of their lives everyone else is getting penalized for that. While my train of thought on the matter is because he had his life to worry about when he got there because of that he was penalized like not having a trampoline while everyone else did. Your definition of equality on the issue is that everybody has the same opportunities to have all the right runes. While my definition is that everybody should have no runes so that is dependant on your skill alone. Neither are wrong but neither are right so if this goes on we'll keep arguing forever.

I just wanted to end off with saying that the runes were removed because for the large majority of players in the community found it was an unfun part of the game. Nobody was excited to grind for runes giving very little individual stats or manage them or even make your own rune pages except for a very small minority of the community that enjoyed to theory craft with said runes like yourself.

Honestly seeing how your a fan of off-meta shit i wouldn't mid playing a game whenever but im ending this right here

BeatzBoyFTWJan 19, 20183 votes

Here we see someone who can't adapt to changes.

....especially changes that were already made like 2 months ago.

zXˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉJan 19, 20183 votes

just because i complain, doesnt mean i cant adapt.

and i just came back after 6 month break because of university.

get a brain.

BeatzBoyFTWJan 19, 20183 votes

Hey, if you're that serious into making a complain about it & talks down anyone who comments otherwise, you should be keeping yourself up to date with League's content.

zXˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉJan 19, 20182 votes

i just came back, i checked the patch notes.

what do you want now ?

BeatzBoyFTWJan 19, 20183 votes

Whine less, work more. Complaining anything about it now will do you no good. You might as well just get used to it.

And you have to admit that the old Rune system is just bland af, I mean 90% of the time, everyone will always have 9 solid Armor Seals & 9 Magic resist glpyhs, there's just absolutely no diversity at all, except for like the 1-2% minority of it, such as yourself. At least with this new Rune system, it opens more building path & actual gameplay differences compared to the old season.

MasterDCloneJan 19, 20181 votes

This is exactly what i am trying to say in my post right below.

Thank You someone else that gets it

sorechiy2May 10, 20181 votes

but thats not the point the old runes were good just bc so %%%s cant buy there on page dosent mean they have to remove them

FooDangJan 19, 20182 votes

Welcome Back!!

[slayer-jinx-catface]

zXˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉJan 19, 20182 votes

im so mad i actually want to go again.

where are my xp runes ? my life steal runes ? my +40 armor set up ?!

where is that shit `??diou23h9fuhd239 fh92ühf98qrfouihrq9gfu43 08ug1t8z945zhgoüehf

ModWulf HelhammerJan 19, 20182 votes

The rune cost was reduced because they were replacing the old rune system

(and seriously? You think scorch is garbage?)

zXˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉJan 19, 20182 votes

wtf???? change something that is going to get removed anyways ? whats the point ? so ppl can buy runes cheaper that will be gone anyways ? whats the fcking point ?

"here guys buy these runes so we can remove them from your inventory" "nice riot, i love me some cheap runes that will be gone anyways"

and ye it is. some masteries are clearly better then the others. lets not discuss wich one, because thats not the point.

this is just pure shid now.

no niche builds possible anymore. all we have now is these little bit stronger masteries.