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Any place for ADC mains in S10?

Jamyn··4 votes·5,630 views

Please correct me if I'm wrong about anything here. First of all let me say the changes to the map and elemental dragons sounds awesome and I'm looking forward to it! My concern is, as an ADC main, I've noticed that top and mid are going to be receiving more EXP, while EXP in shared lanes such as bot are going to be reduced, as well as jungle EXP. On top of this, the CS poaching requires you to share minion waves with your support or jungler, or else the minions gold values decrease over time. This is an issue for ADCs, as one of the main goals is simply to hard farm for late game where you become more useful. An ADCs main build items are also generally vastly more expensive than that of most other roles, as well, support will now be getting their support item upgraded automatically and for free (saving even more gold) which is a really neat idea, but its even more gold towards the support.

It feels like every role is getting buffed in some way or another while ADC isnt receiving anything but nerfs, in a game wherein low elo (im in gold) ADC is already a struggling role. If you fall behind, it is very difficult to catch up and you are much less useful compared to say a mage who is behind as they still have CC abilities to contribute to the team (say ahri charm). In a lot of cases, even tanks or other classes can do as much if not more damage than ADCs while being inherently tankier, such as AP malphite or Darius.

My concern here is mostly just that a couple of seasons ago ADCs were so weak they were basically fallen off the meta, and I am concerned if it will happen again, forcing botlaners to choose AP mages, assassins, bruisers, or tanks simply because they are stronger choices.

16 Comments

OtterlyLost5 votes

I fully believe that no, there isnt really a place for ADCs anymore. They have pretty systematically nerfed directly and indirectly the role for seasons now. They directly nerfed them last season, effectively destroying them. And they have indirectly nerfed it over and over again by making it the weakest lane in general. And by lane, I mean the actual physical lane is the weakest. It has just as many gank points as top. It's just as long as top. It's just as punishing to die or back at a bad time as top. But this is all with the addition of a tower that is weaker than all other towers for the first five minutes of the game. This is with the addition of being expected to help ward dragon, of needing to not be pushed in at a bad time, of need to not die at a bad time or you might lose dragon. This is also with the addition of the most ganked lane in the game is literally bot lane. Top laners like to whine about getting ganked in the first 2 minutes; it's literally nothing compared to botlane being permanently by mid and jungle until the end of lane phase.

They need to give supports better access to wards. In general, they need to buff the fuck out of vision.

musixxal4 votes

um i don't know how to tell you this. those exp changes literally cement a place on the map for adc's in the duo lane. why is that? because adc's don't need experience, they scale on gold not on levels, crit can only be paid for while abilities scale on levels yadayada gave a whole rundown during the nubrac saga. you won't be getting the mage supports as often unless they actually provide real utility like karma or lux, you won't have to deal with the mage carries because "herp it's way easier to land skill shots on adc's," and you most certainly won't have to worry about other weird shit that requires levels to scale going there like gangplank, he's definitely not going there cause he won't hit lvl 13 ever.

these changes...if you know how the game works, are for the meta, and they cement the meta while putting more emphasis on solo lanes to carry the mid game. junglers will complain but whatever other options were discussed and shot down by community vote so what else are rito left to do to make the jungle healthy lol. bottom lane complaining though...unfounded, ya'll gotta learn some league.

KABLUMP3 votes

sorry that you might not get a class monopoly of a position when your class consists of 20 champions, of which only 5 at max are every viable, and a solid third have been leaking out of your lane and into top/mid/jungle unhealthily for a long time. Since it is basically obligatory to run amarksmen as the bot laner, and they are often in style, I don't see why every marksmen gets to magically own bot lane instead of other tank shredders or hyper carries. You only maintain your dominance due to logistics.

Fact is, mages, bruisers, assassins, and tanks are almost always locked into their respective lanes, and have to share those lanes with the other classes locked to their lanes. Problem with this? tanks and bruisers are always stuck between who hard counters who, mages and assassins face the same shit, and then adcs just get to lock in one of their FotM 1 of 5 viable champs that usually are just vessels for the OP adc build and then go down to bot lane.

Is cait banned? Just go tristana, same shit after 15 minutes anyways Is Vayne banned? Well here's kaisa! Ezreal? Have a lucian!

PB4UAME3 votes

Amen. 13 sub classes, yet one has had an utter monopoly on one of only 5 positions for 10 fucking years, while also being viable or meta junglers, top laners, mid laners, and even supports, strong enough to have been picked in worlds and multiple competitive leagues for years, outside of the position they hold hegemony over. They have also for many years and in the vast majority ofmetas LoL has ever seen been by far the most important role, sub class, etc. Just look at all the bot focused metas we've had. Oh, every thing from S2 to S9, with particularly sore points in S3, in S6 and S7 (Ardent Meta, and clown fiesta bot to shut down their adc/get yours fed so they'd single-handedly be the win condition past 15-20 minutes).

Hell, the one time, the singular ONLY time there was any actual diversity in the bot lane, ADC mains whined like babies and got every other champion nerfed and their precious ADCs buffed after a single fucking week. Not to mention, ADC abuse of other items, particularly tank and assassin itemization has gotten both fucked over for the classes actually designed to use them. Look what happen to item 3071, item 3153 (originally designed as a fighter item to help champs like Udyr Olaf (old)Aatrox etc) item 3025 item 3156 item 3053 item 3508 item 3124 item 3026 item 1054 item 3022 item 3142 etc due to ADC abuse. Not to mention, because of their crying items like item 3143 item 3075 item 3110 item 3076 item 3047 etc were also nerfed to the point where other than Tabi, and bramble (for the GW alone) no one hardly builds those items anymore.

KABLUMP3 votes

{quoted}

Amen. 13 sub classes, yet one has had an utter monopoly on one of only 5 positions for 10 fucking years, while also being viable or meta junglers, top laners, mid laners, and even supports, strong enough to have been picked in worlds and multiple competitive leagues for years, outside of the position they hold hegemony over. They have also for many years and in the vast majority ofmetas LoL has ever seen been by far the most important role, sub class, etc. Just look at all the bot focused metas we've had. Oh, every thing from S2 to S9, with particularly sore points in S3, in S6 and S7 (Ardent Meta, and clown fiesta bot to shut down their adc/get yours fed so they'd single-handedly be the win condition past 15-20 minutes).

Hell, the one time, the singular ONLY time there was any actual diversity in the bot lane, ADC mains whined like babies and got every other champion nerfed and their precious ADCs buffed after a single fucking week. Not to mention, ADC abuse of other items, particularly tank and assassin itemization has gotten both fucked over for the classes actually designed to use them. Look what happen to item 3071, item 3153 (originally designed as a fighter item to help champs like Udyr Olaf (old)Aatrox etc) item 3025 item 3156 item 3053 item 3508 item 3124 item 3026 item 1054 item 3022 item 3142 etc due to ADC abuse. Not to mention, because of their crying items like item 3143 item 3075 item 3110 item 3076 item 3047 etc were also nerfed to the point where other than Tabi, and bramble (for the GW alone) no one hardly builds those items anymore.

And it was clearly irelia that was the issue and not the class of champions that exists to right click you to death from the other side of the fucking screen while healing for 25% of each of their 600 damage auto attacks that they get 1.5-2.5 of each second

OtterlyLost4 votes

What happened to Sterak's that ADCs caused? >_>; It was made melee only.

ER was always an ADC item; IDK what you mean by it was intended to be a bruiser item. It was never built before its rework and post rework, it had AD, Crit and Mana was exclusively built by ADCs. After its third rework, the only people abusing it were literally bruisers.

BoRK has historically been built by many ADCs(Lucian, Vayne, Trist) and isn't solely a bruiser item; it is an on hit item and intended for tank busting. No Udyr or Olaf would build this item intentionally.

Maw never received changes or nerfs due to ADCs building it and ADCs never build it now.

GA used to be just a general late game item that traded damage for survivability. It was never exclusively a bruiser item and was honestly more problematic before because your tank could build it and you'd have to kill them all over again. Its since been changed to add AD, actually making it a better Bruiser item.

Guinsoo was historically never built. They reworked it and it became a generic on hit item. If a Jax feels like being a squishy PoS, he could build it. I also remember Master Yi hard abusing this item, especially when its current passive was a jungle item in a time where ADCs rarely if ever went into the jungle.

Mallet was nerfed not because of ADCs; it was abused by Gnar who is a bruiser.

None of those tank items received direct nerfs due to ADCs. Not a single one. The only one that was nerfed was Bramble and that's because it completely fucked over top laners. In fact, actually looking, Randuin's lost health for more % reduction of crit damage; it went from 10% to 20%.

PB4UAME2 votes

ER, Manamune, and IBG were all primarily and originally desigend to help out immobile mana-based AD fighters back in the day (a category of champions since deleted from existence mostly due to reworks.) It was meant for Jayce Urgot Yorick Blitzcrank Nasus before Manamune was changed to be for ADCS in S6, and ER was similarly changed into an ADC item around then. BotRK used to offer more raw AD, less attack speed, had a lower %hp per hit proc, but had a much stronger active that was also % HP damage, and stole more movement speed, and had a longer duration slow as it was designed to help immobile melee's stick to targets, and was designed to help them counter tanks. It was then retooled into a lower AD, higher AS, higher %HP damage, much weaker active item so that ADCs could better continue their abuse of the item. It used to be absolutely AMAZING on Udyr and Olaf in S2, S3 and S4, before it was changed into primarily an ADC item. Seriously, Olaf and Udyr used to rush that item into straight tank as their only damage item. It was their most built offensive item by over 3x the pick rate of everything else, including Triforce. On that note, Jax used to build BotrK into Tri into tank as well.

Maw was nerfed, its build path changed to have more AD and CDR, it was made more expensive and it was made to no longer stack with Sterak's AS THE ITEMS WERE ORIGINALLY DESIGNED AND INTENDED TO DO, TO STOP ADC FOR ABUSING THEIR PASSIVES BY STACKING BOTH OF THEM TO MAKE THEM IMMUNE TO BURST After that, ADCs were STILL FUCKING ABUSING STERAK's and so it was made melee only so they couldn't even fucking touch it, AFTER nerfing its damage, its %base AD ratio, and changing the build path up, and nerfing the amount of HP it gave but increasing the max HP ratio of the shield.

GA used to be built every single game on every tank if the game got late enough. It was NEVER a bruiser item, it was a dual resist pure tank item, one of only two to exist (at a time), the other one was Runic Bulwark which was removed from the game entirely, then a few years later ZZ'rot was added, but that's getting removed this season. It was changed to be an item for ADCs with the ADC update. It was not at all changed to be a bruiser item, though the change does make it better for offensive champions, mostly divers and skirmishers, of which the skirmishers get the far better end of it with their higher damage ratios and much greater focus on offense, and guess what, they are slayers not bruisers.

Guinso's worst abusers have been VAYNE, Yi, VARUS. In that order. Note that two of them are ADCs, the other is a melee ADC.

Mallet was nerfed because of ADCs opting into it in S3, and has been utter garbage since, and yes it was later nerfed again due to Jayce and Gnar abusing it in top lane several years later, but that was not what I was referring to.

Yets42403 votes

Fam, not a single thing you posted or listed here is even remotely correct, and it really strikes me as if you're a recent player, maybe starting in S6 or S7, as you very clearly did not play anything in S2-4, or else you remember pretty much none of the balance and item changes made in that period, let alone the major ADC reworks and updates in early S6 and S7.

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

sorry that you might not get a class monopoly of a position when your class consists of 20 champions, of which only 5 at max are every viable, and a solid third have been leaking out of your lane and into top/mid/jungle unhealthily for a long time. Since it is basically obligatory to run amarksmen as the bot laner, and they are often in style, I don't see why every marksmen gets to magically own bot lane instead of other tank shredders or hyper carries. You only maintain your dominance due to logistics.

Fact is, mages, bruisers, assassins, and tanks are almost always locked into their respective lanes, and have to share those lanes with the other classes locked to their lanes. Problem with this? tanks and bruisers are always stuck between who hard counters who, mages and assassins face the same shit, and then adcs just get to lock in one of their FotM 1 of 5 viable champs that usually are just vessels for the OP adc build and then go down to bot lane.

Is cait banned? Just go tristana, same shit after 15 minutes anyways Is Vayne banned? Well here's kaisa! Ezreal? Have a lucian!

Wow. Sorry that a class that is only allowed by riot to be played in ONE SPOT is a little pissy when other roles start taking that spot. -.-

OtterlyLost1 votes

B-but other classes have to share lanes!! It doesn't matter that they at least have the choice of MULTIPLE FUCKING LANES and aren't IMMEDIATELY NERFED IF POPULAR IN ANOTHER LANE

The thigh guy3 votes

Pretty sure adc is going to suck ass in s10. Mid laners and top laners are going to be the only roles that matter just like s7-9

PB4UAME2 votes

You're really going to sit there are pretend that Kai'sa and Xayah are not absolutely dominant in proplay and Worlds this year?

Hell in S7 two of the meta defining mid lane champions that worlds were Lucian and Corki, two ADCs played mid, not to mention Kog, Xayah, Trsit and Varus coming in quite powerfully as bot lane ADCs.

Top lane has been utter dogshit for at least the last three to four years with the exception of reworked Irelia being a disgusting abomination of a champion. To try to pretend that top has mattered more than ADC recently, let alone for the last three years is nothing short of laughably delusional. Its currently at the worst state the lane has been in in ten years, with the utterly disgusting counter pick meta that essentially decides lanes from champ select. In higher Elos its the least played, most auto filled role, and has been for some time. Hell, you can even check the top of the leaderboards for the role distribution and will barely find a single top laner in the top 50 in any region, yet ADCs are always up there and have been for ten straight years. Furthermore, ADC is still by far the most played and most picked of the 13 subclasses, to the point where on average there are over 3 ADCS picked per game. They would not be so monstrously over represented in pick rate if they were truly as bad as you try to make them sound, nor would they be over represented at the top of ranked ladders either.

Jamyn2 votes

{quoted}

You're really going to sit there are pretend that Kai'sa and Xayah are not absolutely dominant in proplay and Worlds this year?

Hell in S7 two of the meta defining mid lane champions that worlds were Lucian and Corki, two ADCs played mid, not to mention Kog, Xayah, Trsit and Varus coming in quite powerfully as bot lane ADCs.

Top lane has been utter dogshit for at least the last three to four years with the exception of reworked Irelia being a disgusting abomination of a champion. To try to pretend that top has mattered more than ADC recently, let alone for the last three years is nothing short of laughably delusional. Its currently at the worst state the lane has been in in ten years, with the utterly disgusting counter pick meta that essentially decides lanes from champ select. In higher Elos its the least played, most auto filled role, and has been for some time. Hell, you can even check the top of the leaderboards for the role distribution and will barely find a single top laner in the top 50 in any region, yet ADCs are always up there and have been for ten straight years. Furthermore, ADC is still by far the most played and most picked of the 13 subclasses, to the point where on average there are over 3 ADCS picked per game. They would not be so monstrously over represented in pick rate if they were truly as bad as you try to make them sound, nor would they be over represented at the top of ranked ladders either.

Sorry I meant to clarify more that I know ADCs like xayah and kaisa are very strong in proplay this season, im talking more in low elo like silver-gold etc where reaching 300 cs in 25 minutes simply isnt going to happen. They rely a ton on items and gold, so in professional play where they can reach that level of income they are definitely a lot stronger.

The thigh guy3 votes

{quoted}

You're really going to sit there are pretend that Kai'sa and Xayah are not absolutely dominant in proplay and Worlds this year?

Hell in S7 two of the meta defining mid lane champions that worlds were Lucian and Corki, two ADCs played mid, not to mention Kog, Xayah, Trsit and Varus coming in quite powerfully as bot lane ADCs.

Top lane has been utter dogshit for at least the last three to four years with the exception of reworked Irelia being a disgusting abomination of a champion. To try to pretend that top has mattered more than ADC recently, let alone for the last three years is nothing short of laughably delusional. Its currently at the worst state the lane has been in in ten years, with the utterly disgusting counter pick meta that essentially decides lanes from champ select. In higher Elos its the least played, most auto filled role, and has been for some time. Hell, you can even check the top of the leaderboards for the role distribution and will barely find a single top laner in the top 50 in any region, yet ADCs are always up there and have been for ten straight years. Furthermore, ADC is still by far the most played and most picked of the 13 subclasses, to the point where on average there are over 3 ADCS picked per game. They would not be so monstrously over represented in pick rate if they were truly as bad as you try to make them sound, nor would they be over represented at the top of ranked ladders either.

You are not a pro. I am not a pro. No one on these boards is a pro. Pro play is not relevant. When your games average player is communicating through voice coms, has 100+ games of experience with their teammates, and has near perfect gameplay skill, THEN pro play becomes a relevant argument.

When it comes to average play, ie solo que, top lane and mid lane are the only roles that matter.

Cool. You have a 13/1 kai’sa. Too bad she got instant deleted by a 1/1/0 renekton because she is team dependent.

KABLUMP3 votes

by the way the changes to lethality items will benefit some adcs and the changes to energizer build are amazing opening up a whole new crit+ad item

PTA and Lethal tempo are untouched, fleet is effectively buffed, More tanks will appear due to conq rework so 90% of enemy teams will have tank top laners instead of fighters/bruisers.

im also fairly certain that enchanter supports are getting a new item and it's clear that riot are working on sej and kalista.. why is this important? Because adcs are effectively the best tank shredders in the game and the adcs that do that best usually want either mage or enchanter supports and tank frontlines so assassins become literally your only danger

s10 adcs are going to be plenty fine

vgamedude2 votes

ADC has been this games focus for 10 years now. There will literally always be a place for them. Why post this ?

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