A Twitter post came out late yesterday, concerning the 0 CS top lane off-meta play style, and how there will be a hotfix added to "fix it". I know a lot of people have already commented on the Twitter post, but I really just want to get an overall community opinion. Are these changes healthy for the state of the game or detrimental for supports?
Ale non è male3 votesHonestly, these changes are dumb. If the "0 cs" top lane strategy work because of the spellthief + Klepto synergy, just hit Klepto which is generally NOT used by supports (except Sona which yet has other good runes available for her)
Klepto basically allow you to get 10 gold every 10 seconds through two autoattacks (so 5 gold for AA). Just reduce the amount of gold you get from Klepto to something like 3 gold for AA, so you get 6 gold every 10 seconds. If you think that's too much of a nerf, add also a +1 gold if the Klepto AA kill a minion, so you lose gold if you use those on minions but you are still encourage to not only harass with Klepto
Problem solved, Klepto still give you a sizable amount of money, but you can't abose the passive gold gen to just freely harass without worrying about CSing
Tobykachu4 votesKlepto just needs to be straight up reverted imo, the sheer number of ranged top laners seeing play right now just because they can harass the melee top laners is extremely unhealthy for the game.
MorgManBasher5 votesKlepto just needs to be straight up reverted imo, the sheer number of ranged top laners seeing play right now just because they can harass the melee top laners is extremely unhealthy for the game.
Personally think the rune should just be removed, it's just not healthy for the game.
can find a different rune
Tobykachu1 votesEspecially considering how strong Ezreal is right now, he could do with being pegged down a little either way.
Ale non è male1 votesEspecially considering how strong Ezreal is right now, he could do with being pegged down a little either way.
If Ez was the only problem, you could just gut him to the hell in the early game with CD to not allow him to abuse it Klepto is staying because Riot still see as a rune that has a role in the overall rune balance, as in theory you trade combat stats for gold useful to build your items faster as a tradeoff - similar to Cull concept, but with trading in mind instead of farming -
The real problem is that, unlike Cull which is still totally underpowered, Klepto is overall overpowered, when it can cyclically get to unintended uses like in these cases. At a certain point you got to do the only thing that has not being done yet, hit the gold generation from that rune (without buffing Ezrael as compensation), and see where it does land in the overall scheme of things, and then decide if rework it/remove it, or keep it and change again numbvers
Tobykachu1 votesThat's what I'm saying. The only champions that uses Kleptomancy without spellthief's are Illaoi and Ezreal. Illaoi has multiple good runes for her, so hopefully it wouldn't hurt her too much and Ezreal is one of the very best champions in the game right now and could definitely go for a nerf in some way or another, nerfing his primary rune choice is just one way they could hit him.
Kleptomancy, especially the new one, has completely broken top lane as people realise they can just play scaling, team fight mages up there, with Kleptomancy and just punish any melee match up.
Ale non è male1 votesThat's what I'm saying. The only champions that uses Kleptomancy without spellthief's are Illaoi and Ezreal. Illaoi has multiple good runes for her, so hopefully it wouldn't hurt her too much and Ezreal is one of the very best champions in the game right now and could definitely go for a nerf in some way or another, nerfing his primary rune choice is just one way they could hit him.
Kleptomancy, especially the new one, has completely broken top lane as people realise they can just play scaling, team fight mages up there, with Kleptomancy and just punish any melee match up.
But reverting Klepto would just bring back the old problems that existed with that rune before the changes, when it was abused from anyone who could abuse it, and not "only" in some cheesy unexpected strategy like the "0 cs" one There is an overall power problem with Klepto, it is just too good when it can be exploited and once this "0 cs" thing is shut down, another issue will occur down the line as long as there is the potential for Klepto to be broken.
The priority should be to tone down the overall power and open it to wider usage, not revert from new kind of abuses to old kind of abuses
Tobykachu1 votesThe old Klepto and new Klepto suffer from identical problems. Mainly that it becomes highly problematic when a ranged champion uses it against a melee champion. The old Klepto was abused hard by Viktor (and Ezreal) and the new one is being hard abused by multiple ranged top laners (and Ezreal).
Ale non è male1 votesThe old Klepto and new Klepto suffer from identical problems. Mainly that it becomes highly problematic when a ranged champion uses it against a melee champion. The old Klepto was abused hard by Viktor (and Ezreal) and the new one is being hard abused by multiple ranged top laners (and Ezreal).
And that's exactly the definition of a problem about its overall power, so reverting to previous state eliminate some problems and create others You need to hit Klepto gold income hard, and then see the results, period. At that point you see if you can do QoL changes to it, like reverting to old system or inserting other restrictions/additional effects or just discard the rune completely. Riot has done ANYTHING except reduce Klepto gold income, including items tangentially related like in this istance, so it seems clear that the step they should make is gut Klepto gold income next
MorgManBasher1 votesAs a support main, I am not sure how I feel about this. They definitely need to do something to fix the "no CSing" top lane thing going on ASAP, but hopefully this doesn't effect me
I mean, it only effects spell thief so once it's upgraded it works like normal so it should be fine, right?
Ale non è male1 votesAs a support main, I am not sure how I feel about this. They definitely need to do something to fix the "no CSing" top lane thing going on ASAP, but hopefully this doesn't effect me
I mean, it only effects spell thief so once it's upgraded it works like normal so it should be fine, right?
It apparently effects all the item line, that's the problem
MorgManBasher1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PucEfK71,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T12:44:52.666+0000)
It apparently effects all the item line, that's the problem
Oh, they should make it so it's only for the first portion of spell thief and coin...would be enough to fix the problem without effecting support
boricCentaur11 votesI like them it won't do much to hurt support and in some cases will actually buff the amount of gold supports get.
Salron1 votesI wonder how many times support items need to break the game before Riot realizes they're fundamentally flawed
ChaosLordMadis1 votesI wonder how many times support items need to break the game before Riot realizes they're fundamentally flawed
Well purpose a way for supports to actullygain gold in lane. THe whole idea for the items is so supports are able to bye items. I see people says things like this and they never purpose a way to make sure supports have a gold income.
Oleandervine1 votesI wonder how many times support items need to break the game before Riot realizes they're fundamentally flawed
Or, you know, bind them to the role instead of allowing anyone to buy them. Riot's been dicking around with Support items for years now, dumbfounded by how people keep abusing them, and nerfing them into oblivion because of abuse instead of LOCKING THEM TO THE SUPPORT ROLE LIKE THEY SHOULD BE. The last two years of support item abuse in top lane, mid lane, jungle, and ADCs should have been more than enough of a wake up call for Riot to get their shit together here.
BeatzBoyFTW1 votesShouldn't bother me too much since I rarely stay in my lane solo whenever my ADC recalls back.
Arcade Lulu1 votesThey honestly should've just hit klepto
Now you need yo have someone with you to be able to get gold from spellthief and you can't get gold if you adc recalls etc
Anime Fizz1 votes[{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PucEfK71,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-12T13:10:46.981+0000)
They honestly should've just hit klepto
Now you need yo have someone with you to be able to get gold from spellthief and you can't get gold if you adc recalls etc
Why are you not recalling when your adc recalls?
If you play support correctly this is basically a non issue, theres no reason for you to stay 1v2 in the lane, you can always go mid, roam to get some wards or simply recall and go back to lane with your adcs.
Arcade Lulu3 votes[{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PucEfK71,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-12T13:15:58.705+0000)
Why are you not recalling when your adc recalls?
If you play support correctly this is basically a non issue, theres no reason for you to stay 1v2 in the lane, you can always go mid, roam to get some wards or simply recall and go back to lane with your adcs.
Or if the lane is pushed, i could go hit the tower few times to get 'bot extra gold when the enemy has backed but no can do 'cause my adc recalled
Ale non è male2 votes[{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PucEfK71,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-12T13:15:58.705+0000)
Why are you not recalling when your adc recalls?
If you play support correctly this is basically a non issue, theres no reason for you to stay 1v2 in the lane, you can always go mid, roam to get some wards or simply recall and go back to lane with your adcs.
That is just a dumb statement If your adc is forced to back earlier than what he should, you may want to stay a bit longer to try to hold lane and prevent enemy bot lane from getting easy plating gold, and delay your back about 20 seconds to allow him to reach to tower to reduce the losses
Or if you are high hp and mana, and without enough money to get the item you need, you could just stay around to collect some money and exp and being able to actually buy the items when you then back, without being forced to back twice
Ravenhale1 votesThis issue already was in place with Targon's. Always amusing to finally complete my quest at the 20 minute mark.
Arcade Lulu1 votesThis issue already was in place with Targon's. Always amusing to finally complete my quest at the 20 minute mark.
Targon's is literally the only reason i don't play tank supports usually
It's so frustrating because either your adc is too dumb to realise that you have targon's so they don't let you get the minions or in the late game you'll never get any gold from your supp item because nobody let's you have minions
I just hate the whole item
Ravenhale1 votesI often feel compelled to play a Tank support when every other role decided to carry. I don't see a whole lot Top lane Tanks or Jungle Tanks these days, so it ends up being a decision on whether or not we have too many bruisers/juggernauts to even toy with the idea of adding another melee (two or more and y'all getting an enchanter, maybe mage if y'all AD).
I think not having a ward outside trinket is the more annoying issue with Targon. Once the silly thing has wards, any extra gold I might get out of the item is extra.
Ravenhale1 votesI mostly play support, often rotating from enchanters, mages and tanks. Targon's already required an ally to proc the tribute. I don't have an issue with the other two lines falling under the same rule.
Oleandervine1 votesYour poll is completely flawed. Something can be detrimental to supports as a role while simultaneously being healthy for the game in terms of getting rid of bad gameplay abuse.
Also, I hope Riot actually fixes this issue beyond this "quick fix," because they acknowledge it's not a good fix, but instead a bandaid - but they really need to commit and find a better fix than this.
mustasekittens1 votesThanks riot!! Killing an entire role because a few people like to play off meta in top :) why not nerf klepto? That shits broken as is