Nerf her Cooldowns or damage. Remove the bubble off the floor sooner. Remove the cooldown she gets from hitting a champion with her E. Why would you remove her SINGLE USEFUL COMBO when not a single person complained about her range. They complain about her damage and E being dumb.
AirKingNeo14 votesThere are so many things about Zoe that should be changed.
xelaker4 votesThe damage and super forgiving cc was the prob I thought, riot goes and makes her feel weird to combo.
50ShadesOfÀDC4 votesReduce Q damage on minions to 75% dmg like on Rumble Q, Sion Q and Xin W.
Troll for Trump3 votesThey didn't remove the combo, though.
Fisher No Chains8 votesWell, they kinda did for experienced Zoe players.
Again, a nerf that makes the champion clunky while not addressing a single problem that makes it frustrating to play against.
Let me guess, was it ricklessabandon who nerfed Zoe?
CrazyBigfoot282 votes[{quoted}](name=Fisher No Chains,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PqfFBA68,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-13T21:21:17.791+0000)
Well, they kinda did for experienced Zoe players.
Again, a nerf that makes the champion clunky while not addressing a single problem that makes it frustrating to play against.
Let me guess, was it ricklessabandon who nerfed Zoe?
Ya zoe changes kinda feels clunky with her r now
Kooner273 votesThey might as well get rid of her ultimate because with you can get the same distance now by simply walking probably more with movement speed. I tested it in sandbox mode. Please just nerf her damage to the ground but keep the fluidity of the combo.
FlameHalbrdOkido3 votesand get rid of minion's giving item actives/summoners
Lios Ashenblade3 votesYeah... the issue with zoe was always the damage, she hits super hard, practically for free in lane lol
Kavren20553 votesShe is burst, she's supposed to 100 to 0
Anidan8 votesShe's burst, but I only recall 2 abilities that directly do damage. Her R doesn't damage by itself, her W can steal spells that aren't damage. Hell, if you get down to it, her E by itself isn't that outrageous but if you combo it with her Q it becomes absurd. You're looking at a "burst" hero with only 2 spells to burst you with, so she probably shouldn't have the damage to 100 to 0 anybody at all and if she does have that capability then that's a problem since other heroes have to dedicate their entire kits to damage for the ability to 100 to 0.
Hello I am Bird3 votesHer W can get damage items. Doesn't undermine your point, just thought I would point it out.
LordGeovanni1 votesit also does damage itself but we can ignore that
Kavren20551 votesOf course I was just saying she is supposed to have high damage.
Tykenn4 votesI'd say that is the reason she has such high damage. She needs to land fewer abilities because she has less of them, than most other champions. The down side, is that if she misses she turns into a giant ranged minion. Plus she's an immobile champion in a very mobile game.
SweedishGunner10 votesBut her cool downs are so low that another Q comes your way in less than 5 seconds.
Tykenn1 votesShe gives you a few seconds of warning before, so it's on you to keep an eye on what the zoe does. Unlike most mage champs, her main damage isn't instant, it's planned.
Lios Ashenblade3 votes
Fucking dammit... she got away again
Tykenn1 votesthat's just poor planning on your part. If you look at the amount of time that skill is in active use, it's a ludicrously small amount of time compared to the total time of the match.
Even so, can't blame you too much. People ban her so often they don't actually know her limitations or counter play.
Lios Ashenblade1 votesThat and I rarely play mid, too many champs you have to ban there lol
Lios Ashenblade2 votes"Burst" Ummm she is basically a sniper poke mage, its frickin stupid
Jinx Hunter1 votesShe's burst, but I only recall 2 abilities that directly do damage. Her R doesn't damage by itself, her W can steal spells that aren't damage. Hell, if you get down to it, her E by itself isn't that outrageous but if you combo it with her Q it becomes absurd. You're looking at a "burst" hero with only 2 spells to burst you with, so she probably shouldn't have the damage to 100 to 0 anybody at all and if she does have that capability then that's a problem since other heroes have to dedicate their entire kits to damage for the ability to 100 to 0.
[sg-syndra]
doubleguac2 votesBurst champs have something gating their burst.
Annie, Veigar, Syndar have substantial cooldowns on their ultimates (which they rely on to burst). Akali and Diana have to dive in, and don't have a way out. Etc.
Zoe has no significant gates on her combo. Her Q, E, and R all have low cooldowns. She is ultra long ranged, and does not have to commit to anything to be able to drop her entire combo (or, at least, her entire combo minus passive). She can basically stand behind a wall and chuck out her combo on cooldown.
Zoe should not be a burst champion. If she is a burst champion, that is a problem IMO. Her play pattern is that of a poke champion. She should be balanced as a poke champion.
Burst champions don't burst from a screen away every 7 seconds without ever having to commit. That's a poke pattern. She's a poke champion.
Tykenn2 voteswhat gates zoe is her low defense, and hp. Proper positioning will make or break a zoe, depending if the enemy know how to act on it.
doubleguac2 votesAll poke champions tend to be squishy when they are jumped on.
Tykenn1 votesThat is exactly my point, on top of her needing range to do damage, if someone goes on her she gets shut down.
doubleguac2 votesI'm not saying she doesn't have counterplay. I agree that she's squishy and vulnerable when people jump on her.
I'm just arguing about what her core archetype, as a champion, is. I was responding to a post that said "she's a burst mage, she's supposed to 100 to 0." But I don't think she plays like a burst mage.
Her kit is designed like a poke kit. She chucks out a poke combo, from very far away, very frequently.
That is different than a burst mage's pattern. A burst mage usually can only drop a full combo every minute or so in the early game, and every 30+ seconds in the late game. And every burst mage in the game has much lower effective range than Zoe (but probably better target selection).
Tykenn1 votesAh, that is fair, you make some good points.
I've played a lot of Zoe, and I would say she is more akin to a "sniper" class in FPS games. As a lot of her damage comes from distance and prediction, getting to as high as 4 seconds of movement prediction to land a max range Q. To answer your question, league doesn't have a role to properly describe Zoe, burst mage was the closet fit.
With that said, I'd like to say a few points about her kit.
LordGeovanni1 votesannie's cooldown doesnt gate her ultimate because unlike other summoned minions in league her ults cooldown ticks down while her ult is up
doubleguac1 votesShe relies on the cast damage to burst people. She has significant downtime on the cast damage, especially in the early game.
She is also low range, which is another form of gating.
LordGeovanni1 votesburst is not supposed to 100-0 from mages they are supposed to chunk portions of hp. 100-70 etc. burst from assassins maybe 50-0 against a squishy but then riot doesnt know how to balance things o they dont 1 shot rotate. to impliment it properly like it was in older season for mage and properly for assassins because they never were implimented properly riot would have to massively change and lower damage out put per spell and spell cooldowns on many classes
Divewing3 votesMaybe I haven't played against Zoe enough, but my only issue with her to begin with was her E cd didn't feel long enough that you could punish her if she wastes it
Tykenn4 votesAs a Zoe main, I agree, I could see longer E cd being a healthy nerf, as long as they reverted the Q-R interactions, and didn't mess around much after that.
Divewing2 votesYeah, reduce the sleep duration early ranks, increase the cooldown (however you like, so long as it's done), and I'm A-OK (shit I'd probably even pick her up at that point)
Tykenn1 votesHopefully that change gets reverted because she is very fun to play, I think you'd enjoy it. Have a good day.
Z3Sleeper3 votesI disagree. Being able to launch the skillshot from FoW is exactly what Nidalee was repeatedly nerfed for. Actually being able to see her before the star makes dodging it a whole lot less random chance of dodging since you had no idea it was coming and more active dodging.
Keep the change AND nerf her EQ damage.
Ariel the Cruel2 votesJust played my first match against (and with, incidentally) a Zoe. As far as damage goes, I'm not sure why anyone else existed. I had to start stacking MR just to prevent literal one-shots. And her Q alone still near killed me (and everyone else) every time it landed. Heaven forbid she land that stun which covers over half the lane; it was basically a guaranteed kill unless a full health ally body blocked. Either way, it forces someone out. Every fight was decided by which Zoe died first. Maybe I was just doing something wrong here. But you don't solve Nidalee's problems by trading her mobility for a stun. (>_>)
(Disclaimer: Twisted Treeline)
koshkyra2 votes"Omg!! I stood still next to a wall for 3 seconds as a squishy ADC with no lifesteal items, and the 11/3/4 enemy burst mage killed me with her entire combo! Wtf riot, nerf!!!!1!1!1!1!"
Ionian Vulpix1 votesGet rid of her CD refund on E and decrease the trap lifetime.
While they're at it, remove Thresh's Q CD refund. He already does literally everything
Yaskamasandwich1 votesThey didn't fix what people wanted on Zoe. She's not removed so nothing was fixed.
