Add "execute threshold" indicator on healthbars for relevant heroes.

OslikGaming·Apr 12, 2019·23 votes·11,763 views

So relatively new heroes like reworked Urgot and Pyke with "execute" ulties have very visible indicators in form of mark and red border on enemy healthbars to tell if they can finish enemy hero with ult or not, but some older heroes namely Cho'gath, Garen and Darius with somewhat similar ulties(dealing true damage that can't be reduced by resistances, buffs, debuffs etc. effectively killing a hero with health lower than X) have no such luxury. So my suggestions are:

Add said healthbar indicator on all enemy heroes for Cho'gath as his ulti deals X true damage and used almost 100% of the time to finish a hero/objecitve.
Add such indicator on "villain" for Garen as his ult deals true damage but only on "villain".
Darius is somehat tricky cuz his ult damage on target can vary a lot based on bleed stacks and whether Darius has bonus damage proc from passive or not. Probably adding such indicator on enemies with 5 stacks of bleed would make sense.

53 Comments

Chembaron YamadaApr 12, 201916 votes

Riot already commented that for champions like Darius, knowing when to use your ultimate to kill the target is part of their skill check. It is supposed to differentiate the good Darius players from the bad ones, so it is highly unlikely that they will add this feature for him.

While Garen and Cho don't have a marker on the enemy health bar, they have indicators which show you if the ability would kill the enemy or not.

Rathar DashingApr 12, 20191 votes

Garen only has an indicator on his R if it's against the villain, in which case the ability does true damage. Makes sense, since enemies can have a lot more variables in effect that reduce magic damage.

FSRERApr 12, 20192 votes

Cho has it no matter which enemy it is while garen has a indicator only on villains.

RagnaveilApr 12, 20191 votes

Not to mention you can read how much true damage it will do to an enemy if you hover the ability.

OslikGamingApr 12, 20194 votes

I know that Garen and Cho have indicators on champion models but in the middle of teamfight with all that flashy effects its really easy to miss them, especially Cho'gath one, since it is located on the ground and not above the hero. Pyke has no indicator on champion model but instead has it on healthbar, which is always visible, no matter what. Actually it would be completely fine to me if Pyke, lets say, had small torrent below enemies that can be executed and Urgot had like saw icon above enemies under execute treshhold, but no healthbar indicator.

Chembaron YamadaApr 12, 20192 votes

Maybe it is for counterplay reasons, exactly because such an indicator would make these abilities so easy to use in these teamfight situations?

Pyke and Urgot are actually skillshots, instead of point&click abilities like Cho's and Garen's. Additionally, Urgots ultimate can get bodyblocked.

OslikGamingApr 12, 20191 votes

Maybe so, but I think that Riot just forgot about older ablities as they keep adding something new and can't keep track of everything at once and such things already happened in League. Like earlier, when AOE skills on newer champions had borders to show their exact size, while on older champions you had to rely on skill visual effects, but now all AOE skills, even on older champions, have exact size indicators.

Z3SleeperApr 13, 20191 votes

This is why I think all execute indicators should be removed. Cho's, Pyke's, Garen's, etc.

Seems double standard to not include Darius.

Flawless FetusApr 13, 20191 votes

Darius ulti damage fluctuates based on bleed stacks. "it takes skill to know when to ulti" is stupid as hell. Riot just doesn't want to bother with an indicator that isn't static. Darius mains are ok with this, bc they're slow enough to think that knowing when to ulti is skill related. Lol.

Z3SleeperApr 13, 20191 votes

Yea, even if it fluctuates, it's still true damage. It's not hard to implement an indicator for it.

I mean, they have Cho'Gath who was using stoneplate to double his ult damage and he still had his indicator at that time n it worked fine.

Garen's and Urgot's ults factor in health increases by the moment. Pyke's ult instantly factors in Coup de Grace.

There's really no justification for it other than "it adds skill to this one specific champion but not the others".

Flawless FetusApr 14, 20192 votes

It adds no skill at all. The only reason for it is riot doesn't feel like dealing with coding it 5x for bleed stacks. They'd have to copy paste some code. They don't have the tech :^]

TheGreatNinxApr 12, 20195 votes

To be honest as a darius player I actually don't want the indicator because it keeps the enemy guess rather or not I can ult kill them as well. After playing enough games I know how much my ult does and where I need my targets hp at lvl6-11-16 respectively.

OslikGamingApr 12, 20191 votes

The indicator is only shown to your hero, not your allies or enemies.

JaspersApr 12, 20193 votes

I say remove the indicators from everyone, make it all about judgement and skill.

Cind3rkickApr 12, 20192 votes

Garen, cho and darius dont have executes though?

A big enough shield will block their ultimates. Execute will always kill unless target is immune.

That being said, cho does have an indicator for when his ulti can kill

ApexInTheCircleApr 12, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Garen, cho and darius dont have executes though?

A big enough shield will block their ultimates. Execute will always kill unless target is immune.

That being said, cho does have an indicator for when his ulti can kill

That's not entirely true, Evelynn has an indicator on when her ult reaches it's max damage threshold, Cho used to have a set of teeth under the target when he could kill them and Zed's ult will have a spinning shuriken above your head if it's within kill damage. If you're gonna have them on one, you better have them on the others because it seems like champion favoritism and alienates other players who's ults have similar mechanics. Clarity is key and Riot needs to step up their clarity game.

ITZ ICYApr 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That's not entirely true, Evelynn has an indicator on when her ult reaches it's max damage threshold, Cho used to have a set of teeth under the target when he could kill them and Zed's ult will have a spinning shuriken above your head if it's within kill damage. If you're gonna have them on one, you better have them on the others because it seems like champion favoritism and alienates other players who's ults have similar mechanics. Clarity is key and Riot needs to step up their clarity game.

Riot already said why some champs have indicators and some don't. For example, Pyke's ult is dependant on his executes, so he has it, Garen's ult isn't dependant on last hitting an enemy.

Jerry SeinfeIdApr 12, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Garen, cho and darius dont have executes though?

A big enough shield will block their ultimates. Execute will always kill unless target is immune.

That being said, cho does have an indicator for when his ulti can kill

shit like veigar/cho/darius even jinx ult are considered executes. They always have, just cuz pyke can ignore shields now don't change that.

Chembaron YamadaApr 12, 20192 votes

Urgot can also ignore shields, but you are correct, all these other examples you mentioned are executes as well.

Rathar DashingApr 12, 20191 votes

If we're gonna include anything that deals %missing health damage as an execute then Morg W is an execute, Kai'Sa passive is an execute and Lee Sin Q2 is an execute.

Yets4240Apr 12, 20191 votes

Yes, specifically Kai'sa had her passive nerfed because it was far too strong of an execute, Lee was complained about for years due to how powerful and essentially free his Q2 execute was, (as his ward hop, W dash, R suppress, etc made landing Q1 as a skilled Lee trivial) so much so that they changed how it worked to no longer be a % missing HP execute, but instead scales up its own damage based on how damaged the enemy is when used. Technically, Lee's Q2 is no longer an execute. Voli's W is also not a true execute for example, as it scales up its own damage up to a max of 200%, instead of actually scaling off the % missing HP of the target.

Z3SleeperApr 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

as his ward hop, W dash, R suppress, etc made landing Q1 as a skilled Lee trivial

Let's not talk past tense here, RQ is still a 0 skill combo.

GrReaper96Apr 12, 20191 votes

Well veigar and jinx dont get benefits from executing. Cho gets bonus health, dar gets reset, pyke gets reset. Compared to lets say garen on the other hand doesnt lose anything if the execute fails. Thats why at least cho needs an indicator

Jerry SeinfeIdApr 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well veigar and jinx dont get benefits from executing. Cho gets bonus health, dar gets reset, pyke gets reset. Compared to lets say garen on the other hand doesnt lose anything if the execute fails. Thats why at least cho needs an indicator

they lose gold if the execute fails. Cho also HAS and indicator. It's barely visible now, but it's there.

WolfeurApr 13, 20191 votes

They're executes on a design perspective, but not on a technical perspective. The only true executes and Urgot's and Pyke's ult.

Jerry SeinfeIdApr 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

They're executes on a design perspective, but not on a technical perspective. The only true executes and Urgot's and Pyke's ult.

y'all can keep arguing semantics as much as you want. truth is, these abilities have been called executes by both the community and riot for far longer than either champ has existed (or atleast the reworked form in urgot's case).

they are moves that you use to finish off (execute) opponents when they're low, all of these moves either benefit from increased effects vs lower health or additional effects for the use on kill (resets/stacks). they're also coded to be better in those cases so even on a technical level they are in fact executes. Just cuz pyke can ignore your shields now doesn't change the definition of executes, it just makes his execute more reliable/stand out. same goes for Urgot.

If not then pyke's ain't either cuz soraka can heal someone out of it when he's in animation which will make his execute fail too.

kingDeDeDariusApr 12, 20192 votes

False, that is only one definition of an execute. Executes do not "always kill unless target is immune". For instance, one classic execute is a percent missing hp execute. Two classic champs that have that are garen and Elise (ult and basic ability, respectively, and now Kaylee has a very strong execute. It doesn't guarantee a kill, but rather helps to finish of targets who are already low. On the other hand, abilities like Darius ult are considered to be executes because there is MAJOR incentive to use it as a finishing blow, because otherwise, the ability can't continue to be used and becomes rather mediocre unless there is only one target in the first place, in which case it can be used at whatever time is most appropriate. Cho's ult is, like darius's, an execute because of a MAJOR incentive, because if he doesn't finish the enemy champ, he doesn't get the bonus ho, which severely affects his scaling in a negative way if he consistently screws up

kingDeDeDariusApr 12, 20193 votes

I. Fact, executes the way you mention them, like urgot's and pyke's, are a very new form of execute that didn't really exist until a couple seasons ago or so

OslikGamingApr 12, 20192 votes

According to lolwiki "A target with at least 1,111,111 shield would survive this(Pyke and Urgot ults) damage, with its remaining HP depending only on the excess of its shielding.", so basically big enough shield can block their ults as well.

KFCeytronApr 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

According to lolwiki "A target with at least 1,111,111 shield would survive this(Pyke and Urgot ults) damage, with its remaining HP depending only on the excess of its shielding.", so basically big enough shield can block their ults as well.

And yet, they work differently. Cho's ult has a flat value and also increases with AP and his health. If it doesn't kill the target due to a shield, the target survives and that's it. If an actual execute doesn't kill the target due to a shield, it will keep dealing more damage until it's clear that no amount of damage will be sufficient (invulnerability etc.). No ordinary shield would be sufficient to prevent an execute. Cho et al. do not have executes. They simply have true damage. Do you think we should add "execute" indicators for every champion with true damage? A mark at 4-14% of max hp for targets with two Silver Bolts stacks? A mark at 2.5% + 4.5% per 100 bonus AD for targets with an active Vital? A mark at 10% (5% if recently affected by Redemption) for every opponent when the support has Redemption?

OslikGamingApr 12, 20191 votes

I didn't said we should add "execute" indicators to every true damage source. I said that Cho, Garen and Darius ults serve the same purpose as Urgot and Pyke ones and like 95% of the time they work the same (1 major differense is interaction with shields - Pyke and Urgot completely ignore shield values, while Cho, Garen and Darius do not), yet some heroes have very clear execute indicators on UI while others don't. Even in-game skill descriptions say that this skills are used to finish off a champion. Cho ult desription states that "he devours an enemy unit", Garen ult "calls upon the might of Demacia to deal a **finishing **blow to an enemy champion", and Darius "leaps to an enemy champion and strikes a lehtal blow". I know its just a flavor text, but yet it gives you an idea what the skill does.

Arisha the DarkApr 12, 20192 votes

I agree, I really don't understand why they removed Cho's ultimate indicator. And yes, if some heroes have those, all should.

OslikGamingApr 12, 20191 votes

Cho still has it, but its visibility is really bad.

ITZ ICYApr 13, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arisha the Dark,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PpuGhMEe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-12T12:42:51.862+0000)

I agree, I really don't understand why they removed Cho's ultimate indicator. And yes, if some heroes have those, all should.

they did not remove Cho's ultimate indicator, it's just less visible. And again, Riot already said why some have it and some don't, it's reasonable.

KFCeytronApr 12, 20191 votes

Execution is a specific mechanic that only Urgot and Pyke have.

Rathar DashingApr 12, 20191 votes

Darius R could be considered an execute. Varying true damage that requires a kill to get the maximum benefit from it. Would benefit from a threshold indicator, but Riot has said that knowing when to R is a part of his skill expression.

KFCeytronApr 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PpuGhMEe,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-04-12T18:01:34.193+0000)

R could be considered an execute. Varying true damage that requires a kill to get the maximum benefit from it. Would benefit from a threshold indicator, but Riot has said that knowing when to R is a part of his skill expression.

No, it could not be considered an execute. Like I said, execute is a specific mechanic that Darius does not have. I recommend reading the wiki article on this topic.

OslikGamingApr 12, 20191 votes

True, but Cho, Darius and Garen ult work in really similar fashion. Like if an enemy health is lower than X and he has no means to prevent death(like Trynda or Kindred ult) he dies.

KFCeytronApr 12, 20192 votes

{quoted}

True, but Cho, Darius and Garen ult work in really similar fashion. Like if an enemy health is lower than X and he has no means to prevent death(like Trynda or Kindred ult) he dies.

That is incorrect. A shield like Locket or Janna's E can allow the target to survive if their health plus the shield value are greater than the ability's listed damage.

OslikGamingApr 12, 20191 votes

Shields act like temporary health and Cho and Garen "execute" marks take shields into account and display accordingly. E.g. Cho ult deals 400 dmg,

target has 100 hp + 250 shield = 350 hp - "execute" mark will appear and Cho will kill the target with ult.
target has 100 hp + 350 shield = 450 hp - "execute" mark will not appear and Cho indeed wouldn't kill the target with ult. Same thing works for Garen.

KFCeytronApr 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Shields act like temporary health and Cho and Garen "execute" marks take shields into account and display accordingly. E.g. Cho ult deals 400 dmg,

target has 100 hp + 250 shield = 350 hp - "execute" mark will appear and Cho will kill the target with ult.

target has 100 hp + 350 shield = 450 hp - "execute" mark will not appear and Cho indeed wouldn't kill the target with ult. Same thing works for Garen.

It's nice that the indicator takes shields into account, but that still doesn't make the ability an execute. I think I'm done trying to explain this to you.

Elemental LuxApr 12, 20191 votes

I mean Zed gets a kill marker, why not Darius? A champion doesn’t have to be “difficult” to be good. See Annie, Garen, Janna.

WarpesApr 12, 20191 votes

I can understand some champs not having it.. but like why wouldn't garen have it by now? his ult's execute is so fucking crucial, and im not sitting here trying to get garen buffed (tbh i could barely care), it just boggles my mind.

StoshkinApr 12, 20191 votes

that would be a cookie cutter feature. learn your champion and youll know when to use your execute.

OslikGamingApr 12, 20191 votes

Then why Pyke and Urgot have huge "Press R to kill" mark while other heroes don't?

Aphelios is OPApr 12, 20191 votes

There's a difference between a regular point-and-click execute that resets Darius and a slowass skillshot that's a one-time use. Urgot

Beacon AcademyApr 12, 20191 votes

As much as I like eyeballing 33% health, it'd be cool if there was a small % on enemy health bars ranging from 0-100% for Veigar's Ult

SpongebobIsLifeApr 13, 20191 votes

or sylas...it's so hard to pinpoint where exactly 40 percent is sometimes.

EonslegacyApr 13, 20191 votes

Cho has sparkle feet indicator on munchable targets. That being said, executes are horrible abilities that scale off enemies stats and invalidate half their kit/items/resistances. Even pykes flat damage scaling R with no %hp invalidates all shields barriers and resistances and %damage reductions. I dislike urgots R the most tbh. Enemy champion has 300 armor a barrier for 3k and 6k hp, thats cool urgots R killed them from 30% health and effectively removed by itself 15-20k health worth of damage. Mundo does NOT go where he pleases.