So after a couple months break I started playing again. I left my account in very good mmr standing, and over the 3 days I'm 10-5, with +26 every win, and -11/12 per loss. I am s3 and I played a game against all s2 players, and I only gained 22 lp. I'm a little confused because even after the losses I still gained 4 more lp, and its not even that many losses that could affect the mmr that much (at least I don't believe so). If anyone can explain this I'd really appreciate it.
Pyrosan1 votesThe LP system's a bit buggy right now - I don't even think rank means anything anymore because I had a G1 player queued into my game with a Diamond 4 while everyone else was high platinum so I wouldn't base your MMR on other people's ranked
That being said, I think if you don't play for a prolonged amount of time your MMR will reset back to the average of the rank you're at to prevent boosters selling off those kind of accs and such, you'll have to go on a winspree so the system thinks you deserve to be promoted aka given more LP
Kai Guy1 votesPart of that Is probably due to how Positional MM still exists but Riot got rid of Positional Ques. More Variance on Lp gains due to what role MM gives you.
I don't think inactivity changes your MMR, Decay tends to be related to LP which is superficial for the most part. Your exact placement will change in relation to the ladder shifting around but that's not related to the system changing your account specifically.
Pyrosan1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PdRkgvEG,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-24T19:33:37.736+0000)
Part of that Is probably due to how Positional MM still exists but Riot got rid of Positional Ques. More Variance on Lp gains due to what role MM gives you.
I don't think inactivity changes your MMR, Decay tends to be related to LP which is superficial for the most part. Your exact placement will change in relation to the ladder shifting around but that's not related to the system changing your account specifically.
I'm only speaking from my perspective as I'm actually an EUW player, was gaining around 26/28 LP per game then I quit because of toxicity, went over there to play another game won and got around 22LP while everyone was near enough around my rank of P3 I think lol
Kai Guy1 votesPersonally I am going off my understanding of Elo and MMR. So I also will have perspective and bias, take my posts with a grain of salt and fact check anything that looks off.
I studied Elo systems first. I got Arpad's book. Turns out Elew is how ya pronounce it not E.L.O. Its not an anagram . Hell it was not even Arpads idea to name it after himself. The dude called it some fancy title like the international chess rating system... but chess players abbreviated to Elo's system. So he formally accepted it as the working title for his system after 17 years when he released his publication on the topic. (The raiting of chess players past and present. Book by Arpad Elo) So studied online resources for a bit then got that book I just mentioned to study more because I enjoy math like this.
Then I took a look into https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/ to see how it gets adapted for team games like league. Trueskill being one industry standard for MMR.
Microsoft does a pretty solid job of providing links. Like the publication here or Like this article on various systems
You can see Bayesian systems used for more then just Games or player Rating. Look up the coastguards Search pattern SAROPS system if you wanna see its impact IRL. Good way to see mathematical principles making an impact on the real world. At least for some one lost at sea being located in time might just save your ass.
Levi v91 votesYea, I can see that now, it was just a bit of a shock and I didnt really think about it. But since I started playing last year I've wanted to get at least diamond and I burnt myself out so I quit for a couple months and came back. But now I'm having fun with it again because for the most part I am winning. I'm an udyr one trick so it's a bit more difficult to climb than with other meta junglers especially when I don't have the whole day to grind anymore. I can only play 3-4 games a day and I really want to get a better mmr so I can climb more quickly. I'd say I'm okay but I just make some boosted decisions sometimes and I don't have much macro sense. I'm adhd ranting right now but I feel like its relevant to the convo. Before I finish school (in 2 yrs) I want to reach d4 at least. I'd like to be good at this game, and maybe play for a school team while I earn my masters. Its one of the few things that actually brings me joy doing in this world which may be pathetic because it's just a game but Im actually in love with it and to be bad at it and not be able to climb would be very disappointing and unfortunate. So it was just a little confusing seeing the 22 and not the 26 or 27 like I was used to the past two days but I'm glad I don't have to worry much about it, just hope I get better mm averages as I play on.
Kai Guy1 votesLp is reactive to that gap between your MMR and your Rank. The gap of MMR results in the gaps of Match avrage. If your MMR gap is wider you see slanted gains to shift you closer to the right rank titles. As you get closer, it gets less slanted, and the gains get closer.
Because there is not an infinite # of accounts at any given time MM will create games that have MMR gaps or are a variable of Averaged MMR. The games avrage might be say 1250, but it could just as easily be 1300 or 1200 or any number inbetween. Pretty much anything that's not outside of class intervals for players should be fair game for MM to build, thou I don't have riots #s to give you anything other then the theory.
So your Gains might be a bit higher or lower in relation to what Average the match has in relation to your assigned Title.
Plus there's likely more stuff riots added on, I can only discuss the things that adhere to Elo principles and MMR principles as those are the documented systems. Riots pretty proprietary on their work.
On the whole. Match average Vs rank is a good way to set rule of thumbs.
Levi v91 votesI see, great explanation, thank you. Just to make sure I understand correctly, the average mmr could be say 1200 where my mmr could be 1300 or so, in this case the lp gains would be slightly lower than if the avg was 1300 or higher. Also just because someone is s2 that doesn't mean their mmr his higher than avg for s2 which would result in lower lp gained, just because its simply not just about rank and other stuff gets factored into it. This makes more sense now, I had no idea it was this complicated.
Kai Guy2 votesBasically you get the concept, thou with how you described it that's for a purist MMR system. You'd see their MMR be lower. Its a bit more complex with League. In this case Riots system gives you a title.
I know 2 ways to make a title represent skill.
1 is player population. Your Titles are given off percentile markers. This system kind of sucks... because RNG of who is online and RNG of active players shifts constantly so the values are not inherently great for accuracy. It also does not have any overlap with MMR, which MM uses. Overall... its the weaker of the two ways I know if you care about trying to make your title represent skill. (title is division and Rank. s4 is a title. GM is a title. etc.) So I doubt riot uses it, as a dev I would never do this. Some do, they want to encourage players to constantly play at all times as much as possible. Take a look at how challenger functions to get a feel what its like when only X # players can have a rating. Inactivity boots you out.
So I assume that riot used instead this method to have titles = skill. The title represents an expected range of MMR at low uncertainty. For example lets say 1200 to 1250 is what's used for Silver 2. Any player with a rating of 1232 who hits lower uncertainty (enough games played that you feel your system has filtered out some luck and RNG of teammates/enemies. My rule of thumb is the "veterans" Badge that's 100 games in the Tier.) Would be sitting at a Title of Silver 3-Silver 1. This is because individuals don't always have the same Range, some are more feast or famine some are more consistent. The wider your best and worse performances the wider you see folks place off a recent trend of games.
So your LP slant then would be generated off the gap of your MMR, Your title, and the MMR value of the game MM created. This value would be consistent for any account thou its unlikely to be all that common as variables tend to.... well... experience Variance. Go figure.
The MMR and Elo systems work of a probability theory and distribution model. If your curious I can provide some links for self study. If your not interested in learning the math but want to achieve a "working knowledge" I am happy to take a stab at any question and try to turn the math formulas into englsih for folks but you should take it with a grain of salt cuz there's a risk that 1) I don't account for what riot did properly. 2) Just have a flaw in my understanding I have not caught.
For the most part, if you understand Why Rn= Ro+K(W-We) You have a good starting point to understand MMR/Elo systems and the various derivatives. When you get the logic of why, you have a spot to start looking for issues implemented by devs.