Although Vayne is a very powerful adc she has one big flaw. I think that the simple addition of a "flare," attached to her condemn ability would just make sense. For example, this "flare" would come into play when you successfully nail an enemy champion to a wall. Granting you vision of said champion until the stun wears off. Making Vayne's well aimed shot a more viable option, especially in the early game phase when the majority of the outside lane wall is covered in brush.
Decrit8 votesI deem that OP. We are talking about a skill that allows you to instantly push away an enemy and nail it to the wall, and in order to counter that the enemy can either avoid wall or risk by going near one but with a bush; laning against her would be a nightmare where half of your lane is almost not viable; plus the disengaging value. I am talking as a Vayne player.
Willahelm Fulber6 votesI think something Vayne needs is indicators, kind of like when yasuo can ult there's a line leading from him to the champions he can ult, give vayne a depiction of exactly how far the condemn will push them in a similar way. I know that I feel jipped when I attempt to land a stun and they are INSIDE the wall but it doesn't proc the stun...
FantasySniper2 votesDis
Decrit1 votesThere it is a indicator yet: if you position your cursor over a target it will show also the travel distance. It' s not a total solution, but it can give a pratical idea.
Willahelm Fulber1 votesSure but that implies you have to take a fraction of a second to look at the skill's indicators, which means disabling auto-cast.
Auto-cast was made to shave off that fraction of a second while still giving you (practically) every piece of information that manual cast does.
MrSc0tty1 votesWell, except for, you know. Range indicators. Poppy doesn't give a range indicator on her ability, neither does Nautilus know exactly how far an enemy champ will be pulled when he hooks. How would you implement this in smart cast without requiring an extra click-or would Vayne players have to deal with all enemy champs having a little line indicator on them at all times?
Willahelm Fulber1 votesThat's what I'm imagining - enemies having line indicators when they're in her range. It's not all that bothering to see it, at least to me when I play as yasuo or with a friendly thresh.
Decrit1 votesI actually see that as a really heavy UI thing to do. However, my method is not meant to always give a clear crystal description of the range pushback, i don' t use quickcast and i barely notice the range indicator, but you can study it on minions or on the enemy in a more calm time in order to get some refreshing measures without wasting mana and cooldown. NOTHING will make the skill more precise than yur own memory, remember that, and while the game at some degree gives when possible all the possible informations you can' t expect to have them served in a perfect way at the perfect time, but must do it by yourself.
Thales5 votesPersonally, I'd just drop her range to 500 and boost her dueling accordingly. Might end up pushing her to top lane, but would allow her to be a more interesting champ.
Knight SoIaire 2 votesi personaly would increase the projectile speed on her e ppl just walk near the wall and by the time your vayne fires her e and it hits the angle changes and the guy flies under his tower or make it knoch thinkgs back according to the positon from you to the target when you fired the skill at instead of position that you have towards your target when bolt hits
YoungManhatten2 votesWell, IMO that's all part of being a good vayne or a great one, the projectile speed is fine, it's visibility is really its only flaw.
ploki1221 votesTry playing Poppy a bit, you'll realize how puny that change is on a ranged attack.
Knight SoIaire 1 votespoppy pushes the target in the same direction even if he flashes
ploki1221 votesNot anymore, if the enemy falshes you simply don't know him/her. And what I mant is that since Poppy isa charge, not only do you miss the stun, ybut you may very well end up somewhere totally unexpected.
Lneacx3 votesLucian and Graves can live with 500/525 range because they both have tools to damage and CS beyond that. Lucian's Q can extend as far as 1100, even though he can only aim within 500; and his W can reach to 1000 units away. Graves' Q and W both have 950 range.
Vayne? She can't do anything beyond her 550 autoattack range. While Lucian/Graves can at least CS from afar with abilities if they fall behind, Vayne can't. That's why she keeps an average 550 despite her extreme damage and mobility.
Thales1 votesYou forgot Sivir, although she's arguably possessed of the longest reach of the three.
I agree that it would be a massive weakness for her, but it's just further ramping up weakness already in her kit. Vayne's inability to act beyond her autoattack range is a limitation that sets her apart from other ADCs. I think it could allow for more skill expression too. Right now, if you can attack Vayne, unless you're one of a handful of ADCs, she can attack you. I'd be okay with having her have to work for it a little more. If it forced her into the top lane, that's basically okay.
Lord Graves III1 votesIf it forced her into the top lane, that's basically okay.
See I disagree with that, because Vayne already bends most top laners over a barrel, and a loss of 50 range isn't changing that. You already need 2 gapclosers and strong sustained damage to beat her if you are melee. Unless you are Teemo or something you don't stand a chance. I don't feel it would for sure make her more interesting, but I'm pretty sure this would make her more frustrating for top laners.
I'm all for vayne being lower-range higher utility or something (leave her damage as is), but if it pushes her top that is gonna make a lot of bruisers and tanks cry, without needing to actually making her better designed.
Lord Graves III1 votesNot necessarily. Its possible she would just become a complete top stomper without actually making the things she has more interesting.
If they reduced her range I feel they should boost it during ult as she is using her bigger longarm crossbow.
I'd love to see her passive get stronger though. It could keep her viable in bot lane while building her niche up even stronger. Maybe even give her some of her stealth back.
Maybe I can get behind this range nerf. I'd like to still see her bot though. Anyone remember when Marksman went mid because it was the safest lane due to its being shorter?
Decaedeus4 votesYou do realize that champions are SUPPOSED to have flaws, right? Vayne is already viable as she is; she doesn't need big changes.
Sunfield2 votesHmm why not?
Lord Graves III2 votesCause it means Vayne can nail you to a wall in the bushes then keep shooting you without having to see into the bush. Thats why not.
YoungManhatten2 votesI like the idea for this "flare" also because it adds counter-play. It's so difficult to see her condemn everytime i play as sivir or noct I just have to guess when to shield it. This "flare" would be great.
Decrit1 votesI belive he means a flare AFTER he nails you to a wall, so if he nails you inside a bush he has not the need to have a ward placed or to have in some other way vision of the bush
YoungManhatten1 votesPersonally I think it should be the attached to the bolt the entire way so that, like i said, it would provide the option to counter it without having to just use a gut feeling as now it's difficult to notice the condemn. Almost like how there are tracer bullets for guns, a flare attached to the condemn bolt would allow you to not only see it coming, but for vayne to see you in a bush. So that it's not just a random buff, but provides buffs in some areas of the ability and drawbacks in other areas.
Lord Graves III2 votesIt removes counterplay. If Vayne condemns you into a wall behind brush this flare would remove that brief moment you have to try and juke her.
YoungManhatten1 votesit would also be alot easier to windwall or spell shield it. But I what you are saying, maybe this flare should light up as it travels to its target and go out on contact UNLESS the target is stunned.
Lord Graves III1 votesNo, thats what I mean. If Vayne gets her stun, the other guy becomes even more screwed with this change. The way I read this change, if a target is condemned and stunned, they will remain targettable even if vayne knocked them into fog of war, like brush. If vayne got her stun off on you, you are probably in the process of getting hurt, and you are gonna get a lot more hurt in the next few seconds.
Being tossed into a bush so she needs to come chase you is part of what can help you survive. With this gone, Vayne's laning phase would become much stronger.
Vayne is more or less balanced as is. A big buff like that has to take power from somewhere else. like her late game.
Would you be ok with vayne having a weaker late game in exchange for this shift?
wilierlizard1 votesAlthough Vayne is a very powerful adc she has one big flaw. I think that the simple addition of a "flare," attached to her condemn ability would just make sense. For example, this "flare" would come into play when you successfully nail an enemy champion to a wall. Granting you vision of said champion until the stun wears off. Making Vayne's well aimed shot a more viable option, especially in the early game phase when the majority of the outside lane wall is covered in brush.
I agree with this completely. First off, if i happen to get caught or run into an enemy in the jungle, the only option is to run away by condemning. Fighting back is almost not an option because the bushes are just everywhere and chances are i will condemn my target into a bush. There should be at least an option as to whether i want to fight or not, but not having a "flare" on the condemn throws away my decision to fight because it immediately turns the fight into the enemy's favor. Second, i think this will incorporate more positioning when fighting AGAINST vayne in lane. Whenever i fight against her, i usually am nto afraid of her condemn as long as i stay near bushes, because i know she will lose sight if my support clears the bush of all wards. With a "flare", this would force me to choose how i want to position myself before i go in, which could change at any moment in the game, whereas right now without the "flare" its the same almost everytime: stay near bushes and chances are you will survive. I would like to see more strategy in play when fighting against vayne, and would like to be able to capitalize on a successful condemn stun.
