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About This Whole Toxic Problem

Spoopy··7 votes·1,008 views

So I've been thinking about making a post like this for a while and it's been hard to keep it clean and not so, how shall I say "ranty". Why does there seem to be such an influx of toxic behavior with little to no recourse?

Let us take a look at the system as it is. Someone is "toxic", they get reported, they enter the tribunal, and then a decision is made by the player base. Right now we only have the end score and a full chat log. In some cases this is enough to make a judgement. But in a lot of cases, feeding, throwing, and in general making another players experience less than expected is not possible to see. This is a major problem.

League of Legends has moved from an indy company with a large player base the one of the most played, and dare I say largest online competitive base. We can't continue on the way things are. The tribunal itself has done a fantastic job clearing out a lot of the chat based hate and leaving/disconnection reports. But what it has failed to do is consistently keep the rift an enjoyable place to be.

League of Legends is a game where you rely on every member of your team to work together to achieve the same goal. If one person disrupts this synergistic necessity it won't only cost a game but in most cases the enjoyment to play the game.

If we take a look at the ranked environment it's even worse. Most people don't go into champion select with a positive approach most of the time. As players we are at the constant fear of trolls, disconnects, feeders and afk's, on top of the pressure of playing a ranked game in hopes to win and raise yourself in the ranked community.

We shouldn't have that fear. We should be able to go into a queue, ranked or not, and be confident that we will have a good time. We should be rewarded for our hard work, our effort to win the game and above all else being respectful summoners.

As it stands now, there's not much loss to a normal game. When you get into ranked however, the balance is disrupted. Rather than being encouraged to play our best as a team, it's more often than not incentivised to play a carry role otherwise you risk losing a game. This is both a fault of the system and as well as the community.

Lets take a look at most of the common issues ranked games tend to have. If you're are within your level of play, you will gain and lose a steady amount of points.

If you play a really good game, you're not rewarded, whereas if you play a bad game, you're not penalized more either.

If you play poorly, but your team helps you into winning the game, you are rewarded the exact same as everyone else, even though you were an anchor. Whereas if you play excellently, but you have someone on the team weighing you down and you lose, you are penalized the exact same as everyone else.

This is not a good system. One players anchor or one players forklift shouldn't determine YOUR outcome. You should be held accountable based on your actions, positive or negative to the team. I'm not saying you shouldn't lose points for a game, but you shouldn't lose points due to someone not connecting and being forced to surrender at 20. As well as you shouldn't be rewarded for winning a game while dragging your team down, purposely or not.

This is a serious issue as we are consistently met with players either too ahead or behind a current rank, people disconnecting, people not connecting at all, people feeding, throwing and the list goes on.

An idea that works well with the champion mastery system is checking individual play at the end of the game to determine point gain and loss, and as well as IP gained. If you get a S+ and win a game, you should be rewarded for that. If you get an F (Or whatever the lowest rank possible is) and still win the game, you shouldn't be rewarded as much as the other player who put more effort into getting a better score. This is the same when losing, only the S+ player shouldn't lose as much as the F player.

Not only will this give incentive to improving play but it can insure people reach their respective rank faster, while not falling below their respective rank too quickly due to toxic behaviour.

Another option is to add incentive towards initiating a report, which then gets seen as appropriate by the tribunal. Too many times have I seen toxic behaviour and after game, people don't even bother to report the player and queue up right away. This will help stop those players from sliding between the system and continuing to ruin everyone else's experience.

This is just my two cents on the league community as well and the system in place to stop toxic behaviour. I honestly do believe we should be rewarded more than we currently are for being respectful players. The honor system doesn't count. I haven't seen anyone with icons consistently since the realease of it. We also need a better system in place to make sure toxic players improve their behavior, or at least a system that doesn't put good players at a disadvantage because of toxic play.

17 Comments

Ralanr2 votes

It's amazing how stressful this game can be.

Spoopy2 votes

Yeah I know. Normal games are meant to be fun, where ranked is your competitive stress scene, but both feel the same right now. :(

Ralanr2 votes

Especially when you have a silver player complaining about being teamed with bronze.

Syronosin2 votes

The idea behind a lot of Riot's decisions are that we will have great games and bad games due to whatever circumstances and over time they should be remotely even.

{quoted}

So I've been thinking about making a post like this for a while and it's been hard to keep it clean and not so, how shall I say "ranty". Why does there seem to be such an influx of toxic behavior with little to no recourse?

Let us take a look at the system as it is. Someone is "toxic", they get reported, they enter the tribunal, and then a decision is made by the player base. Right now we only have the end score and a full chat log. In some cases this is enough to make a judgement. But in a lot of cases, feeding, throwing, and in general making another players experience less than expected is not possible to see. This is a major problem.

Reporting is not a one game thing unless it is for the level of toxicity: racism, sexism, etc. A person must be reported a few games to get to the tribunal. Adding anything more to the mix would be more negative than positive: more time during the tribunal by adding game footage and the subjectivity of the tribunal.

League of Legends has moved from an indy company with a large player base the one of the most played, and dare I say largest online competitive base. We can't continue on the way things are. The tribunal itself has done a fantastic job clearing out a lot of the chat based hate and leaving/disconnection reports. But what it has failed to do is consistently keep the rift an enjoyable place to be.

Actually, it is pretty consistent. As a person you cannot have enjoyable times all the time. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

League of Legends is a game where you rely on every member of your team to work together to achieve the same goal. If one person disrupts this synergistic necessity it won't only cost a game but in most cases the enjoyment to play the game.

What if you are "that person" do you feel that you should be punished? For example, you get heavily camped becoming a non-factor for the rest of the game, as a result they snowball off of you, and your team loses.

If we take a look at the ranked environment it's even worse. Most people don't go into champion select with a positive approach most of the time. As players we are at the constant fear of trolls, disconnects, feeders and afk's, on top of the pressure of playing a ranked game in hopes to win and raise yourself in the ranked community.

Once I hit Gold 5 I played about 2-4 games per night. I went on my first ever 9 game losing streak, won a few, then lost 12 straight dropping out of Gold and back to 0 LP in Silver 1. I had every thing imaginable from feeders to non-warders for every game as a result some of those games I have a terrible KDA. Would you think it was because I was playing bad or was it because 2-3 people on our team didn't have a good game and as a result I got caught in the crossfires during team fights? I am now back to about .500 in my wins and losses.

Go into a champion select believing in yourself and that you are on an island. Everyone comes from different playing abilities and who's to say that this game is the one in which you do poorly? I know many people's gaming experiences come from their past experiences in games. They want to pick a certain role/champion and I would say, for the most part, let them pick within reason (You can pick due to pick order not "calls.") Once that first pick or 2 are gone, just fill as it is better to do so then to cause issues. What if you run across another person that mains your role/favorite champion?

We shouldn't have that fear. We should be able to go into a queue, ranked or not, and be confident that we will have a good time. We should be rewarded for our hard work, our effort to win the game and above all else being respectful summoners.

Perhaps you should play in ranked 5s or team builder instead of solo queue. There are too many games where 3 people want to play the same lane.

As it stands now, there's not much loss to a normal game. When you get into ranked however, the balance is disrupted. Rather than being encouraged to play our best as a team, it's more often than not incentivised to play a carry role otherwise you risk losing a game. This is both a fault of the system and as well as the community.

/facepalm

Lets take a look at most of the common issues ranked games tend to have. If you're are within your level of play, you will gain and lose a steady amount of points.

If you play a really good game, you're not rewarded, whereas if you play a bad game, you're not penalized more either.

If you play poorly, but your team helps you into winning the game, you are rewarded the exact same as everyone else, even though you were an anchor. Whereas if you play excellently, but you have someone on the team weighing you down and you lose, you are penalized the exact same as everyone else.

This is not a good system. One players anchor or one players forklift shouldn't determine YOUR outcome. You should be held accountable based on your actions, positive or negative to the team. I'm not saying you shouldn't lose points for a game, but you shouldn't lose points due to someone not connecting and being forced to surrender at 20. As well as you shouldn't be rewarded for winning a game while dragging your team down, purposely or not.

Do you subscribe to everyone getting a participation trophy?

This is a serious issue as we are consistently met with players either too ahead or behind a current rank, people disconnecting, people not connecting at all, people feeding, throwing and the list goes on.

An idea that works well with the champion mastery system is checking individual play at the end of the game to determine point gain and loss, and as well as IP gained. If you get a S+ and win a game, you should be rewarded for that. If you get an F (Or whatever the lowest rank possible is) and still win the game, you shouldn't be rewarded as much as the other player who put more effort into getting a better score. This is the same when losing, only the S+ player shouldn't lose as much as the F player.

This already happens.

Not only will this give incentive to improving play but it can insure people reach their respective rank faster, while not falling below their respective rank too quickly due to toxic behaviour.

Don't play too many games every night. Do your best, that's all that counts.

Another option is to add incentive towards initiating a report, which then gets seen as appropriate by the tribunal. Too many times have I seen toxic behaviour and after game, people don't even bother to report the player and queue up right away. This will help stop those players from sliding between the system and continuing to ruin everyone else's experience.

Initiating a report due to bad behavior from a player and receiving incentives would only work if there was a major delay in receiving your incentives due to a confirmation that the person in question did commit bad behavior.

This is just my two cents on the league community as well and the system in place to stop toxic behaviour. I honestly do believe we should be rewarded more than we currently are for being respectful players. The honor system doesn't count. I haven't seen anyone with icons consistently since the realease of it. We also need a better system in place to make sure toxic players improve their behavior, or at least a system that doesn't put good players at a disadvantage because of toxic play.

I honestly feel that there are games in which you cannot report the person because there simply isn't an option for what they are doing. If they are communicating well, but in the game they are purposely feeding, stealing farm, and not helping because they are always some where else the tribunal will only see the chat log, if the person got items, their gold amount, and not their actions. Even asking for their help is deemed as "being salty" and goes no where. That is really the only area where I wish we could report more on or have an option to check... It does fall along the lines of "helping the other team" but at the same point once you add the rest of what the tribunal sees into the scenario the person will most likely get out of being punished.

Spoopy2 votes

{quoted}

The idea behind a lot of Riot's decisions are that we will have great games and bad games due to whatever circumstances and over time they should be remotely even.

Reporting is not a one game thing unless it is for the level of toxicity: racism, sexism, etc. A person must be reported a few games to get to the tribunal. Adding anything more to the mix would be more negative than positive: more time during the tribunal by adding game footage and the subjectivity of the tribunal.

It wouldn't be more negative if someone literally trolled one game, and then went on the be normal the rest of their games. Reports should be done on a per game basis, then more successful reports resulting in action taken.

Actually, it is pretty consistent. As a person you cannot have enjoyable times all the time. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

It's not a matter of winning and losing. It's enjoyment overall. Some people don't care if they lost, they just want to have fun.

What if you are "that person" do you feel that you should be punished? For example, you get heavily camped becoming a non-factor for the rest of the game, as a result they snowball off of you, and your team loses.

Of course. That's the point of improving. It was my fault the game went downhill therefore I should be shown I need to up my game next time. In a situation like that most people would either start warding or start roaming, depending on the camp style. Failing to do so would result in someone "snowballing" on me, which is a poor choice. In a situation like that, it was entirely my fault, and that's my point.

Once I hit Gold 5 I played about 2-4 games per night. I went on my first ever 9 game losing streak, won a few, then lost 12 straight dropping out of Gold and back to 0 LP in Silver 1. I had every thing imaginable from feeders to non-warders for every game as a result some of those games I have a terrible KDA. Would you think it was because I was playing bad or was it because 2-3 people on our team didn't have a good game and as a result I got caught in the crossfires during team fights? I am now back to about .500 in my wins and losses.

Go into a champion select believing in yourself and that you are on an island. Everyone comes from different playing abilities and who's to say that this game is the one in which you do poorly? I know many people's gaming experiences come from their past experiences in games. They want to pick a certain role/champion and I would say, for the most part, let them pick within reason (You can pick due to pick order not "calls.") Once that first pick or 2 are gone, just fill as it is better to do so then to cause issues. What if you run across another person that mains your role/favorite champion?

I'm in no way saying to ignore roles. I don't even mention specific role types other than a carry so this point is pretty invalid to what my initial approach was.

Perhaps you should play in ranked 5s or team builder instead of solo queue. There are too many games where 3 people want to play the same lane.

Again, you're assuming that I mean roles here. Having a good time =/= playing a role.

/facepalm

Explain. /facepalm isn't a valid way to respond to what's actually happening in the solo queue scene.

Do you subscribe to everyone getting a participation trophy?

No I don't. Just because you show up doesn't mean you helped. You NEED all 5 members of your team to win the game. There are rare cases where you don't, but that's another story.

This already happens.

In what way does this already happen? It's very far from being where it needs to be. It's not done on indivifual levels, it's done on game win rate. Someone given a platinum account needs to keep losing and falling in the ranks until they reach where they should be, rather than the system looking at their score and consistently lowering their rank based on that rather than just the loss.

Don't play too many games every night. Do your best, that's all that counts.

That's the same as saying not to do your favorite hobby so much. I WANT to do my hobby, that's why I do it.

Initiating a report due to bad behavior from a player and receiving incentives would only work if there was a major delay in receiving your incentives due to a confirmation that the person in question did commit bad behavior.

If you read what I actually posted you'd understand the concept. I said, and I quote: "Another option is to add incentive towards initiating a report, which then gets seen as appropriate by the tribunal." This obviously states that there is a delay and must require an approved response from the tribunal.

I honestly feel that there are games in which you cannot report the person because there simply isn't an option for what they are doing. If they are communicating well, but in the game they are purposely feeding, stealing farm, and not helping because they are always some where else the tribunal will only see the chat log, if the person got items, their gold amount, and not their actions. Even asking for their help is deemed as "being salty" and goes no where. That is really the only area where I wish we could report more on or have an option to check... It does fall along the lines of "helping the other team" but at the same point once you add the rest of what the tribunal sees into the scenario the person will most likely get out of being punished.

You're just amplifying my point further that gains/losses should be personal over win/loss.

I appreciate the feedback, but if you're going to break my post down make sure you actually read it.

LZkkKD0Giz2 votes

Toxicity shouldn't be a problem because we have this thing called a "mute" button.

If you keep crying about "toxic chat" or whatever, you're the problem, because you disabled the chat filter, and you did not mute the "toxic" player. You denied yourself two fucking frontiers of self defense just to get the excuse to cry about how toxic the community is. If you're willing to ban other people over some shit they said in chat, it's time to find another hobby - go to tumblr or something.

I can't believe you people are okay with getting League PATRIOT acts shoved down your throat just so Lyte can keep the evil toxic players away. Keep those shackles coming!

Spoopy1 votes

With your logic it's then possible to "mute" a toxic player that feeds and throws a game, magically removing the toxic gameplay. A lot of what this post is about is gameplay, not toxic chat. Although I can't enforce this kind of statement, but please take your arrogance elsewhere as it's not welcomed here.

KRIXXLER1 votes

I like this.

X Anivia X1 votes

but rewarding people who get better grades = more "kill steals" = more "reasons to be toxic" = more salty toxic people.

Spoopy2 votes

In that case a look into damage done to champions as opposed to actual kills would work far better.

DrCyanide2 votes

It has to me a mix, otherwise those AoE Mages always come out on top, regardless of if any kills or objectives come from their poke.

Spoopy2 votes

The fact that they are applying pressure is part of the concept. Obviously AoE champions are going to have more overall damage to champions at first glance, but that doesn't mean they are always going to be on top. Most of the time the single target hard hitters are the top percentage of kills, while the AoE types are what get them there. Everyone plays a part on the team as a whole.

DrCyanide1 votes

I think the flexible nature a la champion mastery could be good. I'm not sure how it would pan out as an exact translation though.

Currently the champion mastery system compares you to other players who played that role. Want a sure way to get an S+? Play Xerath ADC, you'll be one of the best Xerath's to ever have ADCed. Needless to say, the system would need to be more general, comparing Xerath ADC to other ADC's, having some feel for how strong certain champions are in the meta, etc.

Ravenhale1 votes

I don't think your proposed grading system will prevent Single Champ/Single Role players from performing poorly when they don't get the one thing they are good at. In fact, it might help them attain higher ranks than they should possess as an overall player.

Urgonnalearn2day1 votes

Toxic play and pregame is what drives toxic chat.

DeReiniger1 votes

You just succeeded to explain my (and I bet thousands of players') thoughts perfectly. Thank you for this.

Hellioning1 votes

It'd be impossible for an automated system to accurately determine who played well or badly in a particular match in any way besides wins and losses over time.

For example; a Maokai twisted advances on a jungler going to gank his ADC. He dies for this, but because of that, his ADC escaped and could return to farming faster then if they had died. This is a good play; perhaps not an optimal one, both of them might have escaped somehow, but it's better then the ADC dying or, perhaps, both of them. But this would punish the Maokai for taking that death.

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