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On-hit Itemization Update

Kotovical··5 votes·967 views

The on-hit side of attack speed itemization is outdated and has fallen behind the crit itemization in terms of utility components. One important part to auto attackers is movespeed and right now on hit builds get close to none, there are currently 4 items that build out of zeal giving 5, 5, 7, and 12% MS. I suggest some updates to give similar options to on-hit users starting with Stinger.

Stinger = 1200g

30% Attack Speed UNIQUE: 10% CDR UNIQUE: 5% Movement Speed

This update will match the cost and 3 stat arrangement that zeal has. In response to this change Nashor’s tooth will gain the 5% MS. Triforce does not need to be adjusted it already has MS from its Zeal legacy.

The next change I propose is to move Runaan’s Hurricane back to being on hit focused. After a brief period of being the best Zeal item for ADCs it has not maintained this level of use after a nerf that affected on-hit builds more directly than crit builds.

Runaan’s Hurricane = Stinger + Recurve Bow + Gold = 2600g

55% Attack Speed 10% CDR UNIQUE: 7% Movement Speed UNIQUE: 20 on-hit physical damage

UNIQUE – WIND'S FURY: When Basic attacking, bolts are fired at up to 2 enemies near the target, each dealing X% AD physical damage. Bolts can critically strike and apply on-hit effects.

Runaan’s will be restored as a go to on-hit item. Rather than giving it crit, the way to make this item attractive for both on hit and crit users is through tuning what % of AD gets applied to the AOE. It is currently 40% and is not attractive enough to crit users. Tuning this number up (100%?) would make it more attractive to crit users.

The last item I would change is Wit’s End. The MR steal is awkward and out of date. Rebalancing the stats and adding a much needed piece of utility will more clearly define its strengths and uses.

Wit’s End = Recurve Bow + Quicksilver Sash + Gold = 3000g

40% attack speed 50 magic resistance Passive UNIQUE: +40 bonus on-hit magic damage UNIQUE – QUICKSILVER: Removes all crowd control debuffs from your champion and grants +50% movement speed for 1 second (90 second cooldown).

REMOVED: Basic attacks (on-hit) grant +5 magic resistance and reduce the target's magic resistance by 5 for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times for a total of +25 bonus magic resistance and -25 magic resistance reduction.

Increasing the base MR and adding QSS solidifies this as a go to defensive option. The cost increase (500g) reflects the increased overall value of the item. This gives On-hit champs one defined defensive utility item for them. AD champs have Maw, Scimitar and GA ap champs have Banshee’s Veil and Zhonya’s.

In conclusion there will still be 3 items that build out of zeal to give MS but now Stinger will also give MS and be used in 3 different items. On-hit item not being updated are BOTRK, Bloodrazor, and Guinsoo’s Rageblade. While I believe that the Gold costs listed above are roughly fair value, the efficiency of any item can be easily tuned by moving the price in the future.

TLDR:

Stinger gets Movement Speed. Runaan’s Builds out of Stinger and Recurve Bow. Wit’s End Builds out of QSS.

16 Comments

junglerboy163 votes

I agree that MS is important for on-hit champs (AAing stops movement, hence you need higher MS to either kite or chase and have any sort of DPS), however, adding it to Stinger is not a good choice since the item is already very gold efficient, it's only weakness being that it builds into either a very niche item, or an item used primarily by a class that doesn't prioritize its stats as a component for Trinity force. Add MS to other items on-hit users build instead, not the actual on-hit items themselves.

As far as changes go, I don't really like your other item suggestions. Your version of Runaan's has stats that don't work very well together (on-hit items should be built around recurve as the core item, not stinger). If you want to push Runaan's back to an on-hit Item, try something like

  • Recipe: item 1043 + item 1043 + gold (~2600-2800 total)
  • Stats: ~60-70% AS, 30 physical damage on-hit
  • UNIQUE passive: Wind's Fury: Basic attacks send out two secondary bolts that deal 30% AD and apply on-hit effects to nearby targets

Point of these changes being that it makes the item stronger and more focused for someone dealing on-hit DPS, no CDR BS, no crit catering, just a hearty serving of attack speed and solid on-hit damage that applies to the bolts

Your changes to wit's end ruin the item, there would never be a good reason to get this over Mercurial Scimitar, it's stats are inferior and offer no advantage, plus it's not really a cohesive on-hit item anymore. Wit's right now has a clear purpose as an on-hit amplifier and shredder that allows your other sources of on-hit damage to hit harder. It needs buffs to its stats, not a copy paste of MS's functionality on an inferior stat line. You removed 15 max MR from the item and a whopping 25 MR shred just for the QSS function which is redundant. Any on-hit champ who'd build a QSS into this would either build mercurial, GA, or Zhonya's instead.

Kotovical1 votes

{quoted}

I agree that MS is important for on-hit champs (AAing stops movement, hence you need higher MS to either kite or chase and have any sort of DPS), however,** adding it to Stinger is not a good choice since the item is already very gold efficient**, it's only weakness being that it builds into either a very niche item, or an item used primarily by a class that doesn't prioritize its stats as a component for Trinity force. Add MS to other items on-hit users build instead, not the actual on-hit items themselves.

Your changes to wit's end ruin the item, there would never be a good reason to get this over Mercurial Scimitar, it's stats are inferior and offer no advantage, plus it's not really a cohesive on-hit item anymore. Wit's right now has a clear purpose as an on-hit amplifier and shredder that allows your other sources of on-hit damage to hit harder. It needs buffs to its stats, not a copy paste of MS's functionality on an inferior stat line. You removed 15 max MR from the item and a whopping 25 MR shred just for the QSS function which is redundant. Any on-hit champ who'd build a QSS into this would either build mercurial, GA, or Zhonya's instead.

Stinger is already efficient but I suggested removing 5% attack speed and increasing the cost by 100g. Zeal for comparison offers 3 stats, costs 1200g and is 114% gold efficient. Stinger in its current form is only 103%.

I disagree that Scimitar is superior to Wit's End in this example. AD and lifesteal are great for AD crit champions, not as attractive for on-hit champs who prefer the attack speed and 40 on-hit damage.

junglerboy161 votes

I think I misspoke, I'm not meaning to talk about gold efficiency, I'm talking about slot efficiency (I understand I said gold efficiency in my post tho). If you load up an item with too broad an array of stats, it becomes a must buy item and crowds out other options. Slapping CDR or MS on on-hit items that already exist is not a good idea. Maybe suggest some new items instead, but giving 4 different stats is pushing it. Stinger may be gold efficient in both instances, but it and any upgrades to it become too slot efficient.

As for Scimitar not being as good as your version of Wit's, that could be the case, however it again indicates that people are being forced to get an item, which leads to champion kits getting nerfed when there wasn't previously a need. My main reason for saying it isn't as good is the fact that there was previously an AS item with QSS, and it was far weaker with nearly the same stat line, and as soon as you have two items with the same active on the same map it automatically becomes a stat check.

Kotovical1 votes

{quoted}

I think I misspoke, I'm not meaning to talk about gold efficiency, I'm talking about slot efficiency (I understand I said gold efficiency in my post tho).** If you load up an item with too broad an array of stats, it becomes a must buy item and crowds out other options. **Slapping CDR or MS on on-hit items that already exist is not a good idea. Maybe suggest some new items instead, but giving 4 different stats is pushing it. Stinger may be gold efficient in both instances, but it and any upgrades to it become too slot efficient.

As for Scimitar not being as good as your version of Wit's, that could be the case, however it again indicates that people are being forced to get an item, which leads to champion kits getting nerfed when there wasn't previously a need. My main reason for saying it isn't as good is the fact that there was previously an AS item with QSS, and it was far weaker with nearly the same stat line, and as soon as you have two items with the same active on the same map it automatically becomes a stat check.

Well there are already many items that have 4 stats: Nashor's, TF, Bortk, Titanic, BC, Guinsoo, LB, Ghostblade, Abyssal, Visage, R. Glory, Ohm, Censer, Zeke's, BoC, Athene's, Redemption, Mikael's.

Among this list are Nashor's and Guinsoo's which fewer than 5 champs in the game routinely buy.

Well I believe this is something that can be tuned to equilibrium, but I think there is a big difference between AS+On-hit vs AD+LS and I think that the choice between them will be more based on kit and build synergies rather than straight gold value stat check.

junglerboy161 votes

Ok, you bring up a good point, too many stats can also make the item too niche since not enough champs can use it, which is certainly a fair point. I would argue that most of the items you listed are actually overtuned because of their excess of stats, or intentionally awkward niche items. Furthermore, several of those items you listed do not have 4 separate stats, since they are gated by unique and usually named passives.

4 stats means something like AD, AS, lifesteal, and move speed on the same item. You could stack something like that all by itself and have an effective DPS build.

You can't however get an effective build out of say stacking Trinity force (sheen and phage passive don't stack, and until recently neither did the overcap on CDR).

Basically the point of what I'm saying is you can't usually get away with 4+ raw stats, because if they are complementary (meaning those that synergize well with each other), it's overpowered unless it's way overpriced, and if they aren't, the item becomes a trap unless it offers a large enough pile of stats to be useful despite not working well with itself, at which point anyone who can use all the stats correctly becomes gated by the balance of their new core item.

Honestly, 4 is kind of an arbitrary number, instead frame it like this: Does the item offer everything X champ could want at once? if yes, it has too many stats and should be broken into multiple items. A good example of this is Nashor's tooth and Wit's end used to be a single item called Malady, that gave a large AP scaling on hit damage proc, MR, MR shred on hit, AS, and CDR. All together it was very niche (few champs wanted it) but super powerful on anyone who could utilize it fully (literally an on-hit dream item).

Your suggested items don't seem necessarily broken looking back over them, they just seem pretty awkward and a little strong in the right hands.

Kotovical1 votes

{quoted}

Ok, you bring up a good point, too many stats can also make the item too niche since not enough champs can use it, which is certainly a fair point. I would argue that most of the items you listed are actually overtuned because of their excess of stats, or intentionally awkward niche items. Furthermore, several of those items you listed do not have 4 separate stats, since they are gated by unique and usually named passives.

4 stats means something like AD, AS, lifesteal, and move speed on the same item. You could stack something like that all by itself and have an effective DPS build.

You can't however get an effective build out of say stacking Trinity force (sheen and phage passive don't stack, and until recently neither did the overcap on CDR).

Basically the point of what I'm saying is you can't usually get away with 4+ raw stats, because if they are complementary (meaning those that synergize well with each other), it's overpowered unless it's way overpriced, and if they aren't, the item becomes a trap unless it offers a large enough pile of stats to be useful despite not working well with itself, at which point anyone who can use all the stats correctly becomes gated by the balance of their new core item.

Honestly, 4 is kind of an arbitrary number, instead frame it like this: Does the item offer everything X champ could want at once? if yes, it has too many stats and should be broken into multiple items. A good example of this is Nashor's tooth and Wit's end used to be a single item called Malady, that gave a large AP scaling on hit damage proc, MR, MR shred on hit, AS, and CDR. All together it was very niche (few champs wanted it) but super powerful on anyone who could utilize it fully (literally an on-hit dream item).

Your suggested items don't seem necessarily broken looking back over them, they just seem pretty awkward and a little strong in the right hands.

Which ones? I believe they all have 4 stats. I guess BC has 3+2 passives.

Which of my suggested items have the problem of stacking multiple? Both have 2 Unique elements.

Do my items have everything you would want at once? Nashor's gets one more stat. The item is already extremely efficient but fewer than 5 champs buy it. It's really just QoL buff to match the Zeal line for non crit based AA champs. Take away some of the AP or AS if needed.

Runaan's has a clearly defined role: Make your single target AA hit multiple targets (for both on-hit and crit users if you tune up the AD% on AOE) Wit's End has a clearly defined role: QSS for on-hit rather than crit champs.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Sounds like a ton of Kayle buffs.

CPU Lyrica1 votes

I like this. too bad riot won't ever see this or change anything.

Kotovical1 votes

Well that you think Kayle is the only on hit champ is part of the problem. No builds on-hit because the alternatives are just better.

junglerboy161 votes

No, him saying they're Kayle buffs is not saying she's the only on-hit user, it's just pointing out that these buffs comprehensively buff almost every item she uses (at least indirectly buffing Nashor's tooth, while hard buffing Runaan's for her and making her even safer with Wit's having QSS), unlike most on-hit champs who only use a handful of any of the available on-hit items any given time.

Linna Excel1 votes

My only problem with taking crit away from hurricane is that no one will get it again. I liked that version of the item, I just don't see riot doing an undo on it. The biggest reason why is AS by itself isn't good enough for most people. There just aren't any champs that really want to stack AS and there aren't any items that scream buy AS.

Kotovical1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PQKXtwde,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-01-08T05:07:09.644+0000)

My only problem with taking crit away from hurricane is that no one will get it again. I liked that version of the item, I just don't see riot doing an undo on it. The biggest reason why is AS by itself isn't good enough for most people. There just aren't any champs that really want to stack AS and there aren't any items that scream buy AS.

I think the way you make it attractive to crit users is through higher scaling AOE bolts. If the bolts do 100% of AD and can crit and lifesteal, I think it will be attractive as a late game item after they have their core IE+Zeal.

Poske1 votes

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Did he just buff Hurricane? OH BOY RATATATATATATAT Spray and pray boys

What if I told you that on hits are more viable now then they ever were. Any veteran can confirm this

maybe on hit items saw some play in low elo back with Madreds Bloodrazor thats it

I dont like your idea. Mainly because this is the last thing Riot should focus on

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Just checking... you know that orb-walking increases your effective movement speed, and having higher attack speed increases your ability to orb-walk, right?

Kotovical1 votes

{quoted}

Just checking... you know that orb-walking increases your effective movement speed, and having higher attack speed increases your ability to orb-walk, right?

Should we remove movement speed from Zeal and its upgrades?

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I'm not making a statement about that. I'm just pointing out that the items help movement speed indirectly.

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