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Aurelion Sol and the Rylai's nerf

Stars Shaper··23 votes·4,448 views

There is no need for a wall of text because the issue is rather simple.

Aurelion Sol feels a lot weaker after the nerfs to Rylai in every possible aspect. (Edit: I see that there are info that lead to thinking that Aurelion Sol stars applied the 20% slow since the beginning because they are coded as multi-hit, I haven't found anything to disprove or confirm it so I ask you to take the "harder to catch enemies" stuff with a grain of salt until we can shed some light on it) He can't keep up with any1 that has a mobility tool unless he gets summoner 6 and item 3009, his Teamfight potential has been cut in half because you either build tanky and you're not contributing to damage unless you spend 3/4 of your mana bar or you try a more dps oriented build and get deleted by anything be it long or short range.

Rylai was a noticeable powerspike because you built it as third item and that allowed you to become the zone control mage you were meant to be. Now when I build it it feels that I got weaker compared to when I didn't have it. At the time a champion gets his third item he has basically closed the core cycle and can start to build concerning the enemy and ally team. Aurelion Sol (like many other mages) can't, any choice he makes at this point will bring subpar results.

I feel like I have no option but to build that because without it I'm simply useless and can't even stick to a running Mordekaiser and with it I just used a slot for an item which stats are half as good as other more offensive or defensive options.

40 Comments

Snake Town6 votes

when I looked into it, he was applying a 20% slow with rylai's previously anyways, so the tweaks shouldn't change your sticking ability

Source: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Aurelion_Sol/Abilities?diff=2462742&oldid=2461785 (Aurelion sol stats, pre-6.24, listed under passive notes)

Stars Shaper1 votes

I see that it's coded as an AoE and when I over on the Rylai item it shows the new build path, am I missing something?

I said I have not tested it myself before and I considered it a 40% slow but I'll edit the main thread adding this uncertainty until it gets shed some light upon.

MeleeNuke5 votes

I actually disagree. Now that Rylai's is so much cheaper, he can get the 20% slow so much faster. I always rushed Rylai's first not because of the ap and hp, but because of the slow.

Stars Shaper1 votes

The earlier access to a utility item is surely good, but Aurelion being a medium range battlemage exposes himself a lot more than Syndra (opinable but she has far better CC), Xerath, Ziggs, Lux, etc. and his fellow battlemages have either more reliable damage (both continous and burst) and/or self sustain. This made Rylai HP and AP a lot more precious to him compared to who built it just for the utility with ti being also a high AP item.

Alimonster09143 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PIKEMWBx,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-11T14:38:44.408+0000)

There is no need for a wall of text because the issue is rather simple.

Aurelion Sol feels a lot weaker after the nerfs to Rylai in every possible aspect. He can't keep up with any1 that has a mobility tool unless he gets summoner 6 and item 3009, his Teamfight potential has been cut in half because you either build tanky and you're not contributing to damage unless you spend 3/4 of your mana bar or you try a more dps oriented build and get deleted by anything be it long or short range.

Rylai was a noticeable powerspike because you built it as third item and that allowed you to become the zone control mage you were meant to be. Now when I build it it feels that I got weaker compared to when I didn't have it. At the time a champion gets his third item he has basically closed the core cycle and can start to build concerning the enemy and ally team. Aurelion Sol (like many other mages) can't, any choice he makes at this point will bring subpar results.

I feel like I have no option but to build that because without it I'm simply useless and can't even stick to a running Mordekaiser and with it I just used a slot for an item which stats are half as good as other more offensive or defensive options.

I think Aurelion sol needs a buff not trying to give any hate.

Swarovsko4 votes

Honestly I agree but I don't think Riot will ever buff him. Aurelion and Taliyah were dominating at their release, especially in higher elos and at worlds. Better keep Jayce and Syndra overpowered for like... 5 months and nerf the shit out of Aurelion Sol and Taliyah in less than 2 months.

ShadowParker3 votes

And yet Syndra has changes on the PBE. Let's stop with the hate towards her when she IS getting changes

Swarovsko3 votes

I don't hate her at all, I used to main her b4 the MYMU changes and I still play her sometimes. That's just not fair that they waited so long to nerf certain champions while Taliyah and other newer champions got destroyed in less than 2/3 months, that's what i meant.

ICEFANG132 votes

I main Sol and I think he's fine. The changes to Rylai's were a buff in my opinion. The decreased health and AP was minor compared to the change in price; it's really nice to rush it or still getting it third. There is a much nicer flow to getting it now. The slow wasn't changed, his W is considered multi-hit so it stayed at 20%. https://www.reddit.com/r/Aurelion_Sol_mains/comments/5fflj1/the_end_is_not_nigh_about_the_upcoming_rylais/

Stars Shaper1 votes

I'm not entirely sure about that the slow remained the same. I didn't run specific tests but I have no actual source of his W being coded as a multi-hit rather than an AoE because the wiki says it's an AoE and the reddit thread you linked says it's a multi-hit without any "proof" of that.

Now, I've been in matches that I won and matches that I lost, Rylai didn't help a bit but was mandatory, I still go oom pretty soon if I want to damage things tankier than Ezreal because since Aurelion can'tt build glass cannon so the loss of AP and HP on Rylai meant that you gain a small buff when you buy it but you lose it the moment the enemy laner gets to the shop again.

I'm particulary worried about his teamfight potential, that's the place were Aurelion Sol is meant to shine, expecially in prolonged ones. Now this loss of damage (that neither TLD or DFT can overcome) anything with a single heavy MR item or sustain makes his damage not a threat unless he burns his entire mana bar while keeping them constantly under his stars. Add to this that the loss in HP added to the problem that he can't even build as tanky as Swain or Vlad while they both have self sustain to back it up.

ICEFANG131 votes

I would say that if it is correct, as I've seen in my games, that I would consider it as a buff, as said. If it was reduced, and perhaps I've just been lucky (something whatever), it would make sense to compensate if he needs it, but in the interest of more CC it seems logical to reduce the cooldown on ult or Q to help him (probably ult because it helps us get them off).

I know I don't do the normal thing, and I just play to have fun in weird ways, but recently I've been getting tear->Archangels. The extra mana really helps and the extra AP helps kill minions and roaming kills, but I've also been testing a really weird thing where I don't put points into W (beyond the first, which I do at level 1), because the mana increase isn't close to the increase in damage, and you keep the 150% damage.

Yeah totally weird, but maybe try max Q first for a game or two and see what you think? I've noticed no real decrease in damage, and a huge increase in mana and therefore CS because I can lane easier.

Late game it is an overall nerf for sure; Rylai's is just weaker that way. Short of changing your build you won't be able to really get that 25 AP back and the 100 HP. Personally I've not noticed much change, but I totally would understand if you saw some.

Rockm Sockm1 votes

{quoted}

I main Sol and I think he's fine. The changes to Rylai's were a buff in my opinion. The decreased health and AP was minor compared to the change in price; it's really nice to rush it or still getting it third. There is a much nicer flow to getting it now. The slow wasn't changed, his W is considered multi-hit so it stayed at 20%. https://www.reddit.com/r/Aurelion_Sol_mains/comments/5fflj1/the_end_is_not_nigh_about_the_upcoming_rylais/

You don't and ty for lying.

Z3bra2 votes

Not trying to be disrespectful, but I think you're being a bit overdramatic. I think the stat nerf for the cost reduction to be a pretty fair trade, since the slow is about the same. What are you building right now and what is your setup? Try taking the Wanderer and Stormraider masteries with Movement Speed quints if you haven't. Swifties, Ghost and Exhaust have also almost always been a core on Aurelion, so what were you taking before that?

Reference of mastery/recent match history to show I'm not bullcrapping anyone:

(mastery) http://prntscr.com/di7nsx

(match history from 6.23 and 6.24 for comparison...I almost always do well with mid Sol, even after Rylai changes. On an unrelated note, Jungle Sol is hard.) http://prntscr.com/di7o03 http://prntscr.com/di7o9e http://prntscr.com/di7ot7 http://prntscr.com/di7p5y

[EDIT] stalks op.gg

Your matches have mostly been solid also, ignoring a one game where you somehow went 1/11/17 (looks like you went support and a non-damage build). A lot of your games have 10+ kills with 1-2 deaths. On the losses you have, you are pretty even on kills/deaths too even though the rest of your team looks like it was feeding. You've played...what, two or three matches this patch on Sol. Almost all of these matches you were trying out Thunderlords, which isn't ideal, but I assume that's from you trying to boost your power from the Rylai stat nerfs. One of the matches you did unusually poorly, another you nearly broke even on k/d/a, and the most recent you got a 11/3/9. Sure you aren't just being too quick to judge on these changes? :/

Stars Shaper1 votes

As I said before I'm not concerned about my performance with him. I've always been rather succesful with him and being one of the few Mastery 7 on him I guess I also get to be part of the "few dedicated mains" that trumple over enemies that do not really understand how to counter me (especially after laning). My issue is that I noticed that the growth of the character isn't going anywhere up when I buy Rylai because any small advantage I get is instantly countered by any third item the enemy gets.

I also stated that my build already has high mobility (Mov Speed Quint, Ghost/Exhaust, Mobility boots and Stormrider). I found that after the recent nerfs to his Star damage in the early stage I have to build TLD if I want to keep trades on par with other midlaners because I can't even proc Stormrider that easily if I don't land Ult+Stun+3 Stars (and some AA inbetween).

I tried myself not to overhestimate the nerfs but I guess it's hard not to fall into emotions when you're talking about your most beloved character^^

There have been some different build suggestion which I have to try, I'll come back in few days and see how things are with them.

Bellows2 votes

As someone who has done a lot of Research on the opinion of riot, they are going to be giving him some medium sized changes later this year (2017 that is). They are very unhappy with the difficulty of his skill floor and the destructiveness he can do in the hands of a pro. the are going to change him in various ways to make his skill floor much lower, and by lowering the collateral damage caused by pro play. Basically, the want to make him like most of the other mages and equal and not a niche pick for certain matchups. They also want to give him more options to defend him self as champs who arent supposed to counter him, can still counter him very easily by staying inside the stars, They are investigating a way for him to peel without blowing is ult once every 1 1/2 min.

Thank god, hes my favorite champion right next to the waifu Elise. AurelionSol Elise

Stars Shaper1 votes

Glad to hear that. I'll be waiting for news.

Profirix1 votes

Thank goodness. Ever since his release I knew he would be a feast or famine champion. He is the first champion to have a kit built around him having a certain point at which he becomes helpless. No other champion has had such a massive hole in their kit.

ScissorsNstuff2 votes

Oh poor sol and his 20% less fucking slow on his now 600g less item.

seriously, fuck him he's fine lol

Linna Excel1 votes

I'd be surprised if riot doesn't buff him a little.

Legacy Hydralpha2 votes

If memory serves, Riot did mention giving him some changes around the size of Shyvana and Alistar's recent updates.

Stars Shaper1 votes

I'd like to have a source for it because it's really juicy news.

ICEFANG131 votes

Not too sure if it will happen because the quotes were around 4 months ago and 'later this year'. It also happened around the time that W had its mana cost increased. You can see a summary here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTaLk0DY-x8

Stars Shaper1 votes

Ah yes I was aware of those but if I recall right those were saying that the mana reduction and the damage change would result in a lategame buff.

Swarovsko1 votes

I have the same issue with Tali, now i feel really weak... Rylai was prob the item that was keeping Taliyah AurelionSol Mordekaiser playable

Stars Shaper2 votes

The status of the 3 right now:

  • Morde is up for a full VGU but there is no news about when and how and it's surely going to be after Galio which is after WW which means we are talking about 2018.
  • Taliyah has got some good buffs in the PBE (wrong ones in my opinion as they emphasize her fire-and-forget skill).
  • Aurelion Sol has nothing in store that I am aware of (no Riot posts, no PBE notes).
Swarovsko1 votes

Are you talking about the hp regen and worked ground cd reduction buff? because I barely consider that a "buff".

Stars Shaper1 votes

From S@20:

Threaded Volley (Q)

  • Damage increased to 70/95/120/145/170 from 60/80/100/120/140
  • AP ratio increased to 45% from 40%
  • Base worked ground duration lowered to 100 from 120.
  • Subsequent hits on same unit now deal 60% reduced damage from 50%
Swarovsko2 votes

Thank you a lot for telling me, I couldn't find these buffs on google

Nathaniell12 votes

and vlad.. lets not forget about our already 44% winrate forgoten vladimir.. Who got changed, then unfortunately appeared in Pro play and was working exactly as intended... and because Ryze without greveous wound couldnt 1v1 him, they nerfed him to the ground, where he will stay until another broken rework.

Swarovsko1 votes

I can't state my opinion about Vlad because I stopped playing League of Legends after the MYMU changes (disappointed by almost everything, especially by the fact that they made Syndra, who was my main before the changes, REALLY unsatisfying and braindead) so I don't really know how "op" he was to deserve all the nerfs Riot gave him.

Spice POWAH1 votes

they should just buff him again until LCS comes back then. Shen Shen Shen

Rockm Sockm1 votes

I love A sol but hes been trash since forever.

They gutted him because of what super coordinatied vent teams did pre six even when they release Tali who does it far better.

Without the old Rylai, he's weaker than most supports.

AirKingNeo1 votes

I think he's fine and I actually think if the cost of Luden's Echo was reduced Aurelion would just go Tear > Rylais > Ludens (ludens MS is like rylais slow but not oppresive) > whatever.

Nathaniell11 votes

Hey, Sol got nerfed... tell that to vladimir.

dim2a1 votes

My guess is Riot will buff mages for whom ryali's was absolutely core -- Aurelion, Taliyah, Morde, and perhaps some on whom it wasn't core but was very good, like Karthus. Until then, Aurelion is just S.O.L.

BigPimpingFresh1 votes

The first time I played ASol, I played him like a magic damage juggernaut. The last time I played ASol I did the same thing. I love that this champ is capable of being that kind of champ because his short coming is the most obvious thing. I may be in low elo but I still rather consistently do well with him, especially when you get your Rylai's. From everything I've seen of playing him since, the lower damage is the only hit I really feel and building a few tank item's makes me feel as though am a better juggernaut than Darius or Garen on literally any of the juggernauts right now. Frankly, I've always seen him as someone who needs swiftness boots to dodge cc so that he can keep his stars up so that he can keep his damage up, I've never needed ghost to be relevent. To me, he feels the same overall.

Noxus for life! Sion

Kanzaki Ranko1 votes

good riddance

Profirix1 votes

Until Aurelion Sol's natural counters (assassins) are no longer meta, I would not hold out hope to see the star dragon make appearances in ranked. There is just too much 'counter-play' and not enough reward. I knew this would happen too. He would be a good pick before assassins got their rework, but when the ability to get in your target's face is built into almost every assassin, you can't expect a champion with such a glaring weakness to be useful. The sad part is, there usually is a trade off in terms of safety vs. damage, or reliability vs. damage. Aurelion has been nerfed so much that he no longer reaps the benefit of damage but still suffers massive safety issues.

Gappo1 votes

Aurelion Sol has always applied a 20% slow, we discussed it on the Aurelion_Sol_Mains subreddit some time ago. Quoting what we found: "I just tested it in game, apparently both passive and toggled W only apply 20%. You only get 40% from Q (which also stuns them across the entire duration, so that doesn't matter), and in theory you'd get it from your ult, but that already has a 40/50/60% slow by itself which doesn't stack with Rylai's." "It made sense to me after reading one of the tooltpis that appear in-game when you hover over the item. It says that if an ability fits into two categories (in this case both area of effect, 40%, and multi-hit/toggle, 20%), it will always apply the lowest slow. So even though it's an area of effect which should apply 40%, it also fits into one of the 20% categories, and therefore always slows by 20%. I don't have any footage, but from reviewing a replay of mine I saw that hitting a Renekton with a star lowered his speed from 390 to 312, which is 20%. When I went into a custom game and tested it on the Red brambleback, it reduced its speed from 275 to 220. This happened both with W on and off."

As you can see, the only thing that actually affects Aurelion with this change, is the reduced Health and AP. However, the fact that it's 600 gold cheaper really makes up for this, and most of us consider it a buff to be frank. Yeah, you lose a tiny tiny bit of your lategame (100 hp, and like 50-70 damage from a full combo), but the improved mid-game makes up for this and allow you to snowball earlier.

aeroSOL can1 votes

Just don't build it since its nerf its become a situational item not a core item i buy it for kogmaw and vayne https://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=stayxreal https://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=gu+er+13 https://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=gu+er+13 https://tr.op.gg/summoner/userName=+G%C3%B6ky%C3%BCz%C3%BC challenger asol mains dont buy it, i dont know why no one else has caught on.

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