Boards›Gameplay

ADC's need a blanket buff

InvalidUK··3 votes·1,373 views

I'm sick to death of winning lane the same level as the enemy top laner, and him 2v1 me and my support because i don't come online early enough. I can be 8/0, but because i'm squishy and someone PASSIVELY gets armour as they level, I can't make it a close fight. Best example i have is a game a month back. I won lane 8/2, the same as the enemy Darius playing top. You would think we would've had a close fight considering is was mid game, both were 2 items in (me, a ER nd IE with boots playing xayah, the darius, black cleaver and i think seraths, my support playing leona with knight's vow and support item) no, i was shit on, we engaged, support in with ult + e, i followed up with a root and the second that finished, in one swoop of his combo i was dead and it didn't take him long to life steal back off the support.

Last game I just had was against a cait and blitz, one of the most cancerous lanes they could draft. We tried to play safe under tower but the blitz (and here's the kicker) has a hook longer than tower range. Now yes, dodging is a thing and i agree. But when you're playing an immobile adc against a blitz who has a speed up and has built... you guessed it ARMOUR, it's difficult to actually remove yourself for the unfavourable situation you've found yourself in. I have two choices, go for the 50/50 hook and hope i pick the right direction, or kite. kiting is my opinion against a blitz is suicide so i'll go for plan A. if this happens 6 times in lane, odds are ill be hooked 3 times, and against the cait i'm not leaving. Well done adc, you fed your enemy adc, now you can't farm back because damage isn't really your thing until 3 items anyway and good luck getting that.

yes, this is low elo, and i expect there's tons i could've done differently, but when i'm seeing veigar, diana bot lane is strikes me as something SERIOUSLY wrong. Stormrazor made it reasonable, because the trade off was some utility, but the damage got nerfed, with no affect on the cost. So my items cost more, i need more of them to do what mid lane did 10 mins ago in the hope the game last more than 30 mins so when I'm really online I'll be the differnce maker. When have you known a silver level game to go more than 30 mins, especially with the shit show that is matchmaking currently.

I see the only real ADC options are getting a nerf too and frankly I don't think thats right. I think the rest of the ADC'S in a buff to make them more viable. Senna's damage at 2 items is lovely, I'm actually helping, but the trade off is the mobility, also you've bought lethality... which i understand is better early game, but she's not unbeatable. Aphelios in my opinion is where all the adc's should be. You gift him kills and he'll make you regret it, in the same way ANY OTHER LANE WORKS, the only difference is the adc has a strict 3 item core build that can't really be deviated because you'll put yourself further back and... THEY SQUISHY AF. If i go 4/0 in lane, you can still kill me, quite easily in fact because i have fuck all health and the same amount a resistances. But a darius, good luck, he's not built armour, but its there.

Last year, I think the balance team did a great job balancing all the adc's with each other, in lane, they were all viable. But they weren't balanced at all with the rest of the map. They are the easy kill which is why bot lane is a fiesta. I fully expect to see ADC's benched this season again if it carry's on and we'll have yuumi enabling more early game solo laners like... i dunno... wu kong (which if we ever saw an adc that wasn't lucian or vayne in a solo lane, it would be gutted) There seems to be too many negatives than positives at the moment and when you've been bullied out of the game it's not fun, and how many other players aren't coming back because they can't play with their mate in the bot lane because half the late is redunant. If you're going to direct the game to end in 30 minutes, they need some the late game taken out and put into their mid. Yi, Kayle and Kassadin are example's of late scaling laners, but in my opinion the scale harder and come online earlier.

Sorry for the rant, i enjoy the role, i just hate the lack of support it gets, especially in low elo where the numbers don't seem to matter. I think i'm right in saying bot lane has had the most nerfs in season 10 and i think most of us agree it was in a pretty shit state anyway (Also while i'm ranting, why the fuck do AP champs get Magic Pen boots and I don't get Armour Peircing boots)

11 Comments

HazeVictory2 votes

What ADCs need is a fucking brain. You idiots never ward, walk out into no vision areas and feed, refuse to listen to your supports or team and buy the right items and don't even follow roams or listen to pings.

Most of the time a teamfight breaks out the ADC is the last player to join in because it takes that much longer for you guys to watch the damn minimap.

ADCs are fine. It's the AD carry players who are egoistic, entitled people.

InvalidUK1 votes

As someone who is an actual ADC, I think you’re missing the point.

Buy the items? We don’t have the luxury of buying extra items early. It’s build crit or don’t be relevant, and then if the game goes on long enough, use your ONE ITEM SLOT left to counter the entire team.

One would ask why are you starting team fights when if you look at your map the ADC isn’t with you... perhaps the ADC is farming the 10k he needs to do something.

HazeVictory1 votes

As an ADC you have the cheapest items. If you're farming well into the midgame because you haven't completed a single full item then maybe you should learn to farm.

If a top lane carry like Jax whose items are ridiculously expensive can start to participate in skirmishes right after the laning phase what's keeping an ADC with sub 3000 gold item costs from doing the same?

InvalidUK1 votes

Sub 3 items, most ADC's will build IE > SR > RFC/SS - Thats 10,300. There's no healing included in that, there's no def included in that either (otherwise i'll go PD and the trade off is energised damage), thanks to season 10 SR now has some decent utility which is handy. Yeah, i get 75% Crit chance, but how much gold did you spend to play the RNG wheel. Just going through some scaling picks;

ADC - Xayah arguably ER (3300) > IE (3400) > RFC (2600), Including boots will cost me 10400.

MID - Veigar, who frankly only needs 2 items and an ult to end you. HextechGLP800 (2800) > Morello's (3000). 6900 Gold

TOP - Jax, who gets to run that broken rune because he's melee, but has a dash and 5 second survivablity dodge, so I'm saying he only needs two items to be relevant in a team fight TF (3733 - and this gives basic AD after using an ability) plus DD (3500 - Did i mention this also gives healing) and boots = 8,333 Gold (granted, where it's due these items are more expenisve, but ADC's dont get to abuse conqu like Jax and we certainly can't build deaths dance second

JGL - Yi, I don't play jungle and these boi's took a nerf too, but i think 3 items for Yi is a safe bet considering his kit. BR (2625) > RB (3200) > BOTRK (3300) + boots = 10225 (the closest so far but ADC's don't get to become untargetable for 3 seconds, Xayah gets 2 at max and if you still throwing abilities her way they still hit so...)

SUP - Leona, I've just gone meta for this but frankly, if i'm against a leona I can't kill her when she has 1 item. I'll give her 2 for arguments sake, Pauldrons (400) > Knights Vow (2200) > Zeke's (2200) = 5900 (but to be fair they are babysitting so they can have the cheaper items and the new support items aren't exactly forgiving past lvl2)

No dount you have some discrepancies you'd like to "discuss" about builds, runes etc and I get that this is all match-up specific, except for an ADC it's not. THAT's the build path I have to take most games. If a 2 item Jax goes against a 3 item Xayah 1v1, Jax WILL win. He will simply hop jump stun auto (and heal) dodge auto (and heal again) dodge auto (more healing, can you see where this is heading). He won't fight the midlaner, he's not stupid, he'll jump on the ADC, whether or not the ADC is on the backline or in the jungle solo, because he can dodge enough to burst the AD down in time. If I'm lucky, I might be able to use my ult as Xayah and survive, but she's known for her survivablity, others aren't.

I don't get that same treatment in the late game. If both are full build, the match-up willl come down to mechanics and who as the ace up their sleeve. ADC's get their turn 1v1 against others late yes, the same way Kayle does. By that time, the damage we get is the least we deserve for being your punching bag most of the game, and 9 games out of 10, it won't even get that far.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

{quoted}

What ADCs need is a fucking brain. You idiots never ward, walk out into no vision areas and feed, refuse to listen to your supports or team and buy the right items and don't even follow roams or listen to pings.

Most of the time a teamfight breaks out the ADC is the last player to join in because it takes that much longer for you guys to watch the damn minimap.

ADCs are fine. It's the AD carry players who are egoistic, entitled people.

except when you position right and hide behind your team... you barely tickle people despite building a glass cannon. i play this game for over 8 years and always played mainly adc... in this season it seems like it just pays off more to take a mage botlane instead of a marksman cause a mage can deal the damage he builds. even if enemies cant get to you and you still attack them... they jut dont seem to take damage... all of this while everyone else including supports can easily chunk down eachothers hp

iiGazeii1 votes

I feel like most everybody should be even in the midgame. Some might have more levels, others might have more gold, but at the 20-25 minute mark, most champions should be around the same power level.

Super-strong lane bullies and hypercarries should probably still be a bit weak at that point, and champions designed to spike in the midgame should get to be stronger, but the vast majority of champions should be about the middle of scaling or falling off in the midgame, and it really doesn't feel like they actually are. Lots of ADCs just don't get to be champions until 35+ minutes, and it feels like the bullies stay strong throughout the whole game.

InvalidUK1 votes

I agree, Irelia gets to be relevant 2 items in and carry the damage though to the end game. Darius snowballs hard enough to force the end game early. Assassins are designed to pray on the adc’s

I think I’m right in saying the ADC’s role was to be anti-tank, but I won’t attempt to 1v1 a tank 15-20mins in because I know I’ll lose that fight, even if we have item parity. And that’s 2nd/3rd drake times and maybe early baron if you get a decent jungle pick

So if the adc can’t take on the role it’s designed to counter at the critical moments in the game what’s its point?

Baby Ghoul1 votes

The problem isn't ADCs. It's the engage support meta.

Champions like Nautilus, Leona, and Blitzcrank are so tanky and hard to kill, but they can kill you very easily early game. That means you're going to want to play something with a lot of range like Senna or Caitlyn. If you're playing something that is countered by engage supports like immobile ADCs, you will not get a gank, because the jungler knows that going bot will be a waste of time. They will not be able to kill the enemy ADC or the tank support.

It feels so lackluster because either you play high range champions with tank supports and neither side can kill the other, or you play something else into that and struggle to stay relevant in your lane.

We do not need an ADC buff. If anything, that would exacerbate this meta. Engage supports like Nautilus, Leona, and Blitzcrank need nerfs.

InvalidUK1 votes

I can see where you’re going with that and agree with the most part too.

The only disagreement I have with it is the amount of damage the other lanes can deal so early. Assassins should be able kill an adc in one rotation of their combo, in my opinion, nobody else should unless they are fed.

I’m not stating a damage buff, I think they need more early game resists or maybe a decaying base MS that decreases as they scale.

I find laning fun, It’s the part after

Irelia Bot1 votes

They need a blanket nerf so other champs don't have to kill them in a second or be kill themselves.

Damage creep is the problem and adding more damage is not going to resolve the issue of damage creep.

InvalidUK1 votes

I agree, I don’t think adding damage is the way forward, although I’ll admit rereading my essay does come across that way.

My understanding was that as adc’s were the damage dealers and their trade off was their immobility and health.

Now, they don’t excel in damage dealing in the critical moments thanks to the quicker games but still inherit the immobility and health negatives.

It’s always been a punishing lane, I understand that, but it’s so easy to lock on and burst the adc down without any real risk unless your tower diving.

I’d love something like increased early game resistances for a small amount of survivability or a decaying MS buff, which would advocate decent team play to successfully lock the adc down early game and punish teams that don’t have it together.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes