Is the removal of Kleptomancy really necessary?

MF MF MF··11 votes·6,258 views

I really love the concept of Klepto, getting rewards for trading, while making the trades more risky (at least the early ones) trough the lack of a combat keystone. As far as i see the biggest concern about Klepto is the dominance of free scaling ranged top laners, but is this such a big problem? In the Top 20 most played champions on Top lane right now are only 2 Klepto abusers and they are only the 13th and 14th most played Top laners. Is this really a problem that requires the removal of the above mentioned concept without giving a replacement that goes even remotely in the same direction? Could not small adjustments, like a ranged attack onto a melee opponent triggering both stacks, while only granting the reward of one or adding a cooldown be enough? Even though Klepto could still be called a niche pick it's removal would leave a big hole for champions like Ezreal of MF because all the other Keystone fell really bad on them and "Omnistone" won't change anything about that. The concept of a random Keystone is interesting, but please don't use it as a replacement for Kleptomancy and instead maybe use it as an addition to the inspiration Tree.

29 Comments

Rıots Bad Client8 votes

Lets be real, it was only to abuse melees in top lane and champions that have abilities that apply on hit effects.

I like the idea Of Klepto. Wish it was a bit different. Like a Keystone that allows you to execute your own creeps for Half of the gold on a 20sec CD. Essentially allowing you to "Steal Gold".

MF MF MF2 votes

This sounds like a far better alternative than "Omnistone". In theory in don't think "abusing" melees in Top lane is the problem. It's just that some users are just too safe doing so, like vladimir and Kennen.

Silverseal1 votes

But it screws with people who take klepto on Fiora, MF, Camille, Corki and other viable but not opressive klepto users

taleofsonata1 votes

{quoted}

Lets be real, it was only to abuse melees in top lane and champions that have abilities that apply on hit effects.

I like the idea Of Klepto. Wish it was a bit different. Like a Keystone that allows you to execute your own creeps for Half of the gold on a 20sec CD. Essentially allowing you to "Steal Gold".

Well duh, cuz the poke didn't do any damage anyway. It's like wasting mana to do negative damage.

hhaavviikk1 votes

{quoted}

Lets be real, it was only to abuse melees in top lane and champions that have abilities that apply on hit effects.

I like the idea Of Klepto. Wish it was a bit different. Like a Keystone that allows you to execute your own creeps for Half of the gold on a 20sec CD. Essentially allowing you to "Steal Gold".

God please no, that'd be so broken, we do not need to go back to the time of gangplank killing his own minions and as a result making whoever is in his lane weaker due to lack of gold and xp and more vulnerable to jungle ganks because the lane is always pushed.

And even if you want to say it only works on friendly minions below X life all that will do make that rune mandatory on every support in the game and introduce an obnoxious mechanic.

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

{quoted}

God please no, that'd be so broken, we do not need to go back to the time of gangplank killing his own minions and as a result making whoever is in his lane weaker due to lack of gold and xp and more vulnerable to jungle ganks because the lane is always pushed.

And even if you want to say it only works on friendly minions below X life all that will do make that rune mandatory on every support in the game and introduce an obnoxious mechanic.

I think its only good if one person uses it. But it would be like a nuclear bombs. If one person has it. Then everyone should have it in my quick state.

But my 'goal' for the klepto idea isnt meant to abuse melee, infact its meant for Lane bully champions who fall off later in the game. as they want to delay the opponent from reaching to that point.

To make it less abusable, you could also randomly mark a creep every 30seconds, and after 2 seconds of showing both parties what minion is executable. allowing both parties to contest it. IF you fail to execute the minion, it could put it on a longer CD making it so that you may not want to grab it on everything and everyone.

This way, it nots mandatory for the supports to grab it... since you can get item 4302 to counter it. (But if its a safe lane like Kog/Raka...) Then yes. you may want to grab this hypothetical keystone to put them behind with lack of Gold.

as for exp. The enemy would get the Exp since you're just denying gold so long as they're in range.

Zardo5 votes

Champions who used it will be buffed up accordingly if they perform poorly

Buuut.... mf probably wont since she has so many viable keystomes.

MF MF MF3 votes

As a MF Main (1,1 M Mastery Points, D4) i have to disagree. Every other Keystone feels just so bad in comparison. This also shows on Probuilds, where almost everyone takes Klepto. PTA only benefits you in All Ins because you usually just want to trade with Q + AA or through Q-bounces. Dark Harvest feels useless. You don't really benefit that much from Atkspeed, so Lethal Tempo/ Hail of Blades is not option either. Comet is also not that great because without a slow it usually gets dodged, and using the E to harass is a waste of mana. The new conquerer takes way too long to stack up, so no, I don't see another viable Keystone for MF.

Zardo2 votes

PTA is good in trades and good in games where you have to be auto attacking the enemy frontline.

Dark harvest may feel useless to you, but statistically its performing about as well as klepto.

Commet is for poke in lane as well as synergy with your ulti and e in teamfights. I havent ran it enough to get a good feel of it, but it's not terrible.

On the other hand, I despise klepto. What if I'm getting outranged and my support is either unable or too incompetent to do anything in lane? My keystone gets no value. What happens if we all reach max items? My keystone gets no value. I'd rather the champ be balanced around a consistent keystone over some cheese stone.

Silverseal1 votes

Aery > Comet on MF

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

Champions who used it will be buffed up accordingly if they perform poorly

Buuut.... mf probably wont since she has so many viable keystomes.

Haha haha. Buff? Ezreal? Good one.

Thefrostyviking5 votes

Problem with Klepto is that it´s too powerful in terms of impact.

Sure it does not offer a direct damage boost, but between all the sustain and extra gold it provides it´s still a very large powerhouse, greatly accelerating gold income thus scaling thus powercurves while greatly negating pressure from pokes and short fights.

The Bad Touch4 votes

Yep and good riddance.

floo2 votes

Klepto was used for the exact opposite than you suggested. It doesn't encourage small trades, it was either abused by those who can proc it from a safe range advantage or useless. In small trades like today, which still chunk you for the majority of your health, it's worth more to just deal more damage than get a few more gold from 1-3 procs per fight.

KABLUMP2 votes

as a klepto kennen main I agree, we should keep it

Fuck darius

Brown Man Darius3 votes

{quoted}

as a klepto kennen main I agree, we should keep it

Fuck darius

Nobody Likes u [slayer-jinx-wink]

KABLUMP1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Brown Man Darius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P21PQVzx,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-11-05T18:10:44.029+0000)

Nobody Likes u [slayer-jinx-wink]

As a klepto kennen main

I'm fine with that, h8ers gonna h8 while I make out gr8

IainG101 votes

There needs to be a safe option to allow you to play smart into a really bad matchup, but, at least the way it currently works, Klepto isn't it.

Klepto is mostly used right now to rush gold-intensive item power spikes on item-dependent champs, and to keep mana-sustain up for high poke lanes without needing Manaflow. It's used to make already safe lanes safer.

One user who used to absolutely need it was Kayle, but with the change to her P that makes her ranged at lvl6 she's just another abuser of the Rune now.

Once it's gone I can't think of any champion that will not have another viable option; Kayle will probably go PtA/HoB, with Fleet for harder lanes, Kennen will go back to Electrocute or Fleet for sustain, and Ez has the options of Comet, Aery, Electrocute, Fleet or DH (seriously, about the only thing he CAN'T use is Aftershock, though Guardian would be pretty poor). I personally haven't seen any Klepto MFs, but other people have listed her viable Runes (personally I go DH).

That said, Omnistone is absolute trash and I have no idea why anyone playing semi-seriously would take it. A version of Klepto that stole mana/energy (and converted between the two), or allowed you to steal half the gold carried by the occasional friendly minion (as mentioned by someone else here) would both have been better options; or a watered down version of Ancient Coin since that's going away: maybe minions you last hit can only drop mana coins, minions you miss occasionally drop a gold coin (but still way less efficient than actually last hitting), and all coins are generated behind the caster minions so they can actually be collected in losing matchups.

Its All Skillzz1 votes

Klepto removal will just make ezreal even play more back, i tried playing wthout klepto and i took almost 0 risks to myself to get that AA in after a Q to get the proc that i would normally risk going into range to get. i was pretty much 0-0-0 by 20 mins an avoided all ganks and all ins. when i play with kelpto i will feed a lot going for aa pokes or something vs things tha can all in me or fall prey to a jungle gank. i like klepto cause it helps you scale when you been camped or fall behind but there is also times that if i had electrocute or something that i woulda landed a kill getting me 300g and i wouldnt died.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Recently picked up Miss Fortune (just because I got her Gun Goddess skin in a chest for free) and I gotta say, I always play her with PTA anyway, so I won't really miss it here.

Ezreal will be problematic, tho. Kleptomancy is his only viable keystone and the only one that really fit his playstyle. There is nothing else that he can really use efficiently, so I hope they will compensate him properly when they are removing klepto....

Actually kinda weird that they are removing it, they announced that they want to retune it to give more sustain via potions and remove the bonus gold from it to make it a rune for surviving laning phase instead of fastening your scaling? What happened to that, why are they replacing it with this new (and absoluely weird... is any champion actually going to use this keystone?) thing called omnistone?

Infernape1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P21PQVzx,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-11-05T16:13:45.424+0000)

Recently picked up Miss Fortune (just because I got her Gun Goddess skin in a chest for free) and I gotta say, I always play her with PTA anyway, so I won't really miss it here.

Ezreal will be problematic, tho. Kleptomancy is his only viable keystone and the only one that really fit his playstyle. There is nothing else that he can really use efficiently, so I hope they will compensate him properly when they are removing klepto....

Actually kinda weird that they are removing it, they announced that they want to retune it to give more sustain via potions and remove the bonus gold from it to make it a rune for surviving laning phase instead of fastening your scaling? What happened to that, why are they replacing it with this new (and absoluely weird... is any champion actually going to use this keystone?) thing called omnistone?

Doubt it. He'd be one of the best users of the new Conqueror simply because of how fast he'd stack it.

His WQ provides him with four stacks of it instantly.

Oleandervine1 votes

I'm pretty certain Ezreal will make off fine without it. He can easily proc Electrocute with an Auto-W-Q combo, and can also utilize Dark Harvest pretty well since it can help him with his bursting. To claim that Ezreal, the problem child who breaks things so that other people can't have them, is going to be left wanting because his rune is taken away from him, is laughable.

Chembaron Yamada2 votes

As far as statistics can tell, Ezreal is performing terribly with these keystones. 36,1% winrate with Electrocute. 37,8% winrate with Dark Harvest.

His best keystone after Kleptomancy (with which he just had around 47% winrate anyway) is PTA, which lets him climb to a whopping 43,3%.... I know Ezreal is hated for being an "abuser" and all, but looking at the stats, Kleptomancy is currently the only viable keystone for him. Can we try to put the bias at the side for a few moments?

Sukishoo1 votes

Ezreal just does poorly in the meta right now, no keystone is going to fix that.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

The meta does not favor him right now, true. Hence why he also doesn't even perform really well with Klepto. But telling me that Electrucute or Dark Harvest are good replacements.... when his winrate with them is even below 40%. That's not just "meta not favoring him". He just performs poorly with these runes in general.

Brown Man Darius1 votes

Yes it is! Fuck that keystone.

Śhunpo1 votes

I meeeeaaaan, with it being removed top lane can be in a slightly more healthy state.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

Kleptomancy in general was frustrating to fight against. It felt unfair in many cases, and got abused by those who could do so safely (ezreal, gangplank), those who used it to snowball faster at little risk (fiora, illaoi), so on so forth. In fact, it might be the only rune in the game where it was feast or famine. Other runes at least helped the champion as the game went on, but kleptomancy specifically focused on creating an item gap between you and the enemy for safe poke.

The idea is good on paper, horrible in execution.

Cdore1 votes

A lot of abilities like Grasp and Klepto wouldn't be a problem on ranged if we kept it from procing with on-hit abilities. On-hit abilities have been the single most aggravating part of some of these runes.

More from Gameplay