Jungle Item Nerfs

RainAgent·Aug 23, 2015·2 votes·322 views

Why aren't the nerfs to the jungle items discussed at all in the patch info? Nerfing cinderhulk from 25% bonus health to 15% is a pretty significant nerf to tanks. It makes the item significantly less viable. While the patch claims to have been helping juggernauts. They nerfed the amount of ability power on runeglaive as well.

I play a lot of Volibear and season 5 has had a lot of item changes that continue to diminish his power. If your gonna take away half its health buff they should at least give it tenacity to make up for it. The only jungle item that was broken imo was devourer. Why nerf them all?

My question is isnt this something that we (the players) should have been made aware of? I probably sounds like im QQing but its a bit irritating.

5 Comments

dannykunAug 23, 20151 votes

The Nerfs to most were pretty fair, the reasoning behind cinderhulk is because of the tank item changes from this last patch, the value of health as a tanking stat has become much greater than it was previously, so cinderhulk was giving too much of a now very important stat. Devourer nerfs were a long time coming, and the runeglave was, and at the same time, wasn't needed. Runeglave as a build path was too narrow and not useful to most ap junglers, and instead of reworking it for the umpteenth time they just shat on it in hopes of roping in nidalee and elise who use it way too well (also AP mid ez as well).

RainAgentAug 23, 20151 votes

Youd have to explain to me how the most recent patch made cinderhulk necessary. Most tank items had the health and armor they gave decreased. They only added bonus's are dead mans plate and warmogs heart for health items. Its just seemed like all season have been health or jungle related nerfs. One broken item doesnt mean they all need to be nerfed.

dannykunAug 23, 20151 votes

Weighing tanking stats has always been pretty much the same, If MR and Armor were higher on all items (we're looking at 200-300 armor on tanks and 150-200 on bruisers and 150-200 MR on tanks and 100-120 MR on bruisers for a full build), the amount of health necessary to tank wasn't as high so the value of pure health goes down. Health is an early game, and late game stat, Early on you want at least one health item (whether it was with armor/MR/neither depended on opponents comps and what kind of additional passive would benefit your build the best early) but after the first one, health as a stat kinda took the backburner as you would look more at items that would give you the resistances to better use that health, and finally around the 5th item health would become more powerful once you had the resistances to protect said health.

Now the changes Made MR items much more cost efficient but much less valuable since MR is plentiful you get diminishing returns much faster on it. Armor is a high value stat, but useless without health as auto's are mitigated but not hindered very much by armor until you've got a lot of it. Early health is now much harder to access in the necessary amounts that are needed to tank more than 2 people, but that 25% bonus kinda throws that out of the window. tank junglers would have much higher health pools early, and would still be just as oppressive as they were before as they can look at more powerful armor items that give less health as cinderhulk would simply cover what the nerfs were intended to do.

Just because the devourer changes overshadowed cinderhulk, doesn't mean that after they nerf it people won't go back to cinderhulk. Both items were just overtuned, and riot gave the scalings a nerf rather than the base stats their rushed items got. this way junglers do still have very good items early on that help them late game, but don't completely dominate because the scaling their items gave them were too strong. Also the New Atmas item 3748 is extremely powerful when paired with cinderhulk and the higher health items, and together with strong engages and pretty high base damage as it is, tank junglers are looking to make an even stronger second coming if cinderhulk wasn't nerfed.

Sorry if the post sounds super snarky. Not intended to be that way.

RainAgentAug 24, 20151 votes

I don't think any jungle items other than devourer were overpowered tbh. I've seen people carry a team cause of that buff.

However like I said above I main volibear and can play him successfully anywhere. Most of the item nerf they have done this season have forced me to change my build or made an item less viable. I'd agree with you that the 10% isn't as relevant if almost every health item hadn't had the health it grants lowered. There are only five items that grant more than 400 now. To achieve the same results as before id have to build items that serve less of a purpose to my build.

If constant health nerfs are going to happen shouldn't they focus on reworking the camps that rely of health to function properly? I've personally been using cinderhulk as a laning item and with the 10% nerf it's a less viable option. Idk that I would consider it worth giving up a summoner spell for when I can get the same health boost with another item. At 15% cinderhulk caps at 900 bonus health and provides to relevant passive. I suppose my issue with this comes down to it being an item that requires smite. Shouldn't the sake buff be available for laning rather than being jungle specific?

Any typos are my phones autocorrect lol

dannykunAug 24, 20151 votes

I'd say finding a way to make a laning cinderhulk item would be a great idea and a terrible idea all at the same time. now 900 bonus health is a lot, the added 10% made it possible to reach about 1100 on a full build, together with the original health value you're looking at either 1400 (new cinderhulk) or 1500 (old cinderhulk) health from one item alone (not including the added bonuses that just having the jungle item gives you) that's insane either way. granted this is assuming you reach full build, but the potential that cinderhulk has is still huge any way you look at it. combine that with the brand new titanic hydra, and you're looking to swing with 19-20 extra damage JUST FROM CINDERHULK on your primary target, this isn't taking into account the 400 health from the hydra itself, or whatever other health item you've put into your build, and the damage behind your target is 40 + 2.5% of your max health, just weighing the bonuses we have right here, that's 1400 + 400 = 1800 *.025, or 45 damage. add in the extra 40 and you have 85 damage per swing to everyone behind that target. 80 damage, that's the value that a bloodthirster or infinity edge holds, in an aoe behind the target. That's pretty freaking huge if you ask me. I'm not even weighing in the champions base health pool or the additional health from other items. so yeah New Atmas is extremely overtuned and has created a huge increase in the value of health again.

If you were here back in Season 1 and 2, Atmogs used to be THE BUILD anyone with slightly tanky stats would go. Because in the end it wrecks all carries, and required the focus of almost 3 champions to get you down with all the health you stacked, not to mention if your champ had any health scaling abilities (yeah I'm looking at you Volibear Olaf ) you'd basically wreck shop. When that got completely out of hand Season three nerfed health, After that Atmas wasn't used too often as champs that would use it well fell out of favor as Assassins were now the meta. They removed Atmas in the preseason, and I'm assuming this is it's rework, but it's so imbalanced in how powerful it is it's crazy.