Boards›Gameplay

My Problem With Tiamat/Hydra

shorttallguy··1 votes·800 views

I tried posting this on Reddit, but it got shot down pretty quickly. I thought I'd try again here and hope for more of an actual intelligent discussion. If you disagree that's fine, but I'd like to hear why.

So I've always felt this way and just haven't spoken up about it until now, but I feel that an item designed to increase a champions AOE damage shouldn't also be the best single target AD burst damage item in the game. It's broken in every sense of the word and poorly designed.

My suggestion is to change the active to something more suitable for the item's intention. For example, make it proc off your next auto attack without resetting the timer so that you actually don't do any more damage to a single target than you normally would without the active but still get the 100% AD AOE when you use it. It would be like the active makes your next auto attack, or next few AAs, do 100% AD as AOE.

Edit: Since everyone seems to be missing the point, this is not discussion about the power of the item, it's a discussion about what the item does, although having an item do too many things intrinsically makes it strong. Secondly, I know the item does not reset the auto attack timer.

15 Comments

metaworldpeace103 votes

I question if this post is troll or not. Hydra/tiamat is the only thing keeping melees in the game vs the ranged top lane constant poke all game.

shorttallguy1 votes

I question if this post is troll or not. Hydra/tiamat is the only thing keeping melees in the game vs the ranged top lane constant poke all game.

Because it's strong for all the wrong reasons. If you want single target burst make a new item. I don't understand why this always turns into a discussion about nerfing or buffing. It should be a discussion about good game design. I don't care how strong it is. Make it as strong as you want. Just make it make sense.

Linna Excel2 votes

IE is a great single target burst item. Most tops can't justify it though.

A lot get TF, which is good for burst, but it's expensive.

Kuroi861 votes

It should be a discussion about good game design. I don't care how strong it is. Make it as strong as you want. Just make it make sense.

It does make sense.
As per your argument. Trinity Force, Infinity Edge and Bork can shove Hydra out as the best single target AD burst item. You often see it used on bruisers due to it making for excellent wave clear. The active simply enhances their burst, but rarely allows a bruiser to really assassinate without using DPS.

Pinker 102 votes

auto attack without resetting the timer

Activating Crescent does not reset the auto-attack timer. Rather, the effect uses the champion's auto attack animation to display the effect.

Seriously, how hard is google

shorttallguy1 votes

auto attack without resetting the timer

Activating Crescent does not reset the auto-attack timer. Rather, the effect uses the champion's auto attack animation to display the effect.

Seriously, how hard is google

I never said it did. I was talking about my change and how it wouldn't reset the auto attack timer.

Seriously, how hard is it to read?

Lord Dusteon1 votes

auto attack without resetting the timer

Activating Crescent does not reset the auto-attack timer. Rather, the effect uses the champion's auto attack animation to display the effect.

Seriously, how hard is google

I never said it did. I was talking about my change and how it wouldn't reset the auto attack timer.

Seriously, how hard is it to read?

It doesn't. Hydra/Tiamat uses a champions auto attack animation for its damage, but does not reset the timer.

shorttallguy1 votes

Are you serious right now? I never said it did, I know it doesn't, and you are even quoting me as saying so. Wtf are you talking about.

Pinker 101 votes

It already doesn't.... Why propose a change that. doesn't. change.

shorttallguy1 votes

It already doesn't.... Why propose a change that. doesn't. change.

That's not a proposed change. That's an explanation of what would not be included in the change. Why is that so hard to understand?

AtheosisX1 votes

I don't see the issue. These items are not overpowered.

shorttallguy2 votes

I don't see the issue. These items are not overpowered.

That's not the issue. I never said they were.

Lord Dusteon1 votes

The active is mostly used for a tiny bit more damage OR to reset animations (like Renekton's W). While it has good AD and lifesteal, it also has no defence other than a few rejuv beads, and it's active + unique passive only work for melees. While it does increase burst, an IE or sword of the divine would also do that even better, making it kind of moot.

Frikgeek1 votes

So you want to nerf AD stackers now? The only champ that goes hydra and is common in competitive is kha(And even he doesn't get it all the time, most of them just go Lizard Elder+LW+BC). Zed And Irelia go botrk. Renekton, RIven, and Talon have fallen out of favour after their nerfs. What are AD casters supposed to build for single target damage then? Botrk gives mostly AS, something many AD stackers don't really need, BT is too expensive for the amount of AD it gives, and IE isn't that great when you autoattack like twice in your full combo(like Talon).

Rawrful1 votes

...What? The core of your argument, that it is the best single target burst item for melees is just wrong. I mean, if I had to point out the two most common melee assassins in the game I'd say Zed and Talon. Zed never builds it, and Talon builds it as core. Clearly it isn't overwhelmingly good for burst. Kha'Zix and Lee Sin are the next two that come to mind as a poke-assassin and a fighter-assassin, they are both junglers, and they both only rarely buy it.

So let's look at what it IS defined by: Wave clear. As a melee champion, you have only three items that can improve your wave clear: Tiamat, Hydra, Sunfire. Tiamat builds into Hydra, and gives you: Damage, lifesteal, Wave Clear, Burst, small amount of HP/5. Sunfire gives you: HP, Armor, AoE DoT. Really, Hydra stands alone as a wave clear item.

Now, looking for burst? BotRK gives you: Damage, Life Steal, Attack Speed, Burst damage, Burst healing, powerful slow, powerful speed boost, %HP shred. Now THAT is a single target damage item. Sure, if your AD is more than 10% of their max HP Hydra nuke does more damage instantly, but BotRK gives so much more sticking power and raw damage to murder a single opponent.

Nah man, Hydra is THE AoE wave clear item, not a scary nuke item. Besides, hurting it in any way will totally screw a good number of champions. Up the AoE and get rid of the nuke and it is either useless (It had enough wave clear anyways) or stupidly broken (My autos hit every enemy in a team fight!). Get rid of the AoE and make it a stronger single target nuke item and now every AD assassin is OP.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes