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Was Assassin-Fizz realy too OP?

Stoned Lil Tree··4 votes·1,041 views
Patchnotizen 5.7

I'm playing Fizz main since good 2-3 years now and from my point of view, the assassin-playstyle of Fizz, Akali and Kassadin got killed by riot (in higher elo) for the sake of casual player. They are the sacrifice for keeping the game easy enough that bronze/silver solo queue wont rent to much about assasins. Fizz's ap-assasin kit got broken apart with that recent q,w,r-changes. For a cooldown-dependent glasscanon like ap-fizz, the ap ratios are much too low, and the r-dependency to unreliable for an assassin. Im personally now used to the even weaker early game of fizz inlane, so i dont care about the healing reduction of w or screw the new ult and nerf it back again and for god's sake i can even live with a flashable q for greater antiplay, but please get these ap-ratios back where they were before dfg-remove. The dmg-output, as it is now, isnt able to compete with carries like corki or xerath, when i have an item more then them (Beeing incredibly fed seems to make even Ap-shaco a thing again, but that arent the standart conditions, right?)

My argue-points: -First off, we have to get something straight: I am talking about ap-assassin-fizz. He can offer mainly glasscanon-, solo target dmg and re-positioning -> assassin-characteristics. He is not an carry with reliable dps or a bruiser with much disruption/control.

-Did u guys ever asked urself why fizz hasnt find a place in championpools of high elo player ever? Its because he is mid/lowtier regarding winning/ending 5v5-Teamgames in every patch until probably the now patched AS-bruiser Fizz-changes and thats a fact (go watch lcs and high-elo-stream recordings if u dont believe me). Fizzes chances to carry the game as an melee ap-assassin gets lowered every minute after lvl 6, because he has to get ahead to be relevant in lategame and end the game before maxing items. (Team 5v5 has longer avarage games then solo because of lower solo carry potential)

-So what about solo-ranked? The problem with solo ranked is the lack of teamplay and communication. I played almost every elo with different accounts in euw now and i have to say that playing assassins is OP in bronze/silver, just because the role of an assasins want fullfill is so easy to achieve against unorganised opponents. But if u climb up the elo-ladder facing better organised teams, who wont let u 1v1 fighting against other carries, will crush you as meele-glasscannon-assasins. Thats why squishy assassins have to get ahead in early-mid game for carrying and concerning Fizz, without dfg this isnt as easy as it sounds in higher elo(plat/dia). -> Regarding the 2 ONLY PERIODS, some month before (dfg-AP-Assasin) and some weeks after dfg-remove-patch (as AS-Bruiser), he actually was top-tier in solo-ranked ONLY in Bronze/Silver, like almost every assassin normally is (higher early solo-snowball-potential, because lower solo-late-carry potential).

-About the "broken" mechanic of fizz e -> Its the only ability who can make fizz work as an late assasin 1 w-q combo never ever kills an adc (even without any armor/mr/hp built), thats why he NEEDS that invulnarability, he has no veigar/syndra ult in his kit. His e doesnt make him broken, he makes him competitive against other assasins in a tf-scenario. He has to be able to kill a carry, like a carry has to be able to kill a bruiser and a bruiser to kill an assasin, thats how the game is built up. If he cant be invulnerable he would die against a carry just focusing him down after his w-q burst.

-Conclusion: Is it healthy to nerf assassins so much, that bronze/silver can handle them? -> for the game targeting casual-gamer, it is (this is, what i suspect, are riots plans for LOL). ...BUT... Is it healthy for a balanced moba including Assassins(aka. anti-carrys) as a role to fullfill? -> NOOOO it is not! Riot abviously wants to get the casual-players back from HotS to play more league. And the mainpart of the community in the forums im following want to have a game ranged carrys vs. melee bruisers, without the diversity it has now....

-My suggestion to riot: Try to make ur game special, harder, and with more diversity. Casual games will lose their community much faster.. My suggestion for Fizz: Remove the latest changes about fizz. Taking away the dfg and forcing a morello's in his assassin-build nerfed him enough to be mid-tier assassin. If u think u cant remove anything, probably keep the flashable q.

PS to the forum arguments for keeping fizz: -Bann- and Pickrates of Fizz in solo-ranked were medium some month before, some weeks after dfg-removal-patch and some weeks after fizz release. The bigger part of the time for fizz as a champion were rare played and banned. (Go watch statistics on op.gg or LolKing before arguing about this.)

-Fizz has no counterplay? lol, my duo partner would screw me over every game if i would play against his leona/janna/morgana... there is so much counterplay against him, every well used silence, stun, exhaust, disupt, replacement totally annihalates fizz, while getting focused by a carry. If u can use ur complete w-dfg-q-r-e-combo in the face of opponent carries, something is wrong with the team, not with Fizz. Probably u think there is no counterplay because the supp/bruiser already used all the lockdown on the frontline? -> well nvm u are in the wrong elo my friend. Normally when i manage to zone the carries away of the teamfight without dieing ive done my job, because if i would try 2 all in carries, their team would instantly focus me down in that 3 seconds (after or before zhonyas) where my shit is on cd and i just can prey for not getting chopped into pieces and sold on a fishmarket salty as i am.

-For all them carries, who hate these "op" assassins: climb the ladder, they get easier to handle with a team actually playing WITH u! or better go play leona/ali/janna/morg when u face an assassin and lock em down when theyre try to snatch a carry. Its actually easy as that

-Fizz e is a free Zhonyas and he can use it every 3 seconds!: How often did i hear that... well y its his strongest trademark ability, probably like the morgana q or rammus w, BUT lets get the right numbers inbefore please: just 1 sec long( zhonyas has 2.5 secs.) and with full cdr with 5.5 sec cd. Like i said its his key-ability 2 keep him alive while his dmg cds are coming up again, like a veigar cage or zed ult and so on, thats what makes him an assassin, thats the plan ur teamdisrupter/supporter have 2 lock down, thats how the game should work...

greetings Chillsection

6 Comments

Voluug131 votes

The problems I have with Fizz is his laning, his Q on-hit and his low cd E.

His passive doesnt make sense, in fact its made to help him in lane, which should not exist in the first place. His lane is supposed to be bad.

His E is extremely ridiculous, and should be reworked into being more offensive instead of a generalistic, all purpouse mobility/untargetability tool with low CD.

His Q on hit means he can easily hit you for a 1/3 at minimum of your health and run away half a second latter. Remove that and make him have to stay do deal the Lichbane damage.

Those are my problems with Fizz.

Stoned Lil Tree1 votes

Hi Voluug13

U probably have to be more precise, so that i get what u exactly mean(sometimes im a bit slow :o)

passive: Even with passive he has one of the weakest early laning ingame, compared 2 other assassin melees like zed or yasuo.

e: thats what i rly dont understand, so u wanna say its too strong? if ya, compared too what?? other assassins? well the leblanc w is pretty strong too can make dmg and instantly be gone 2 no? or u mean the mechanik of fizz e doesnt fit into the mechanik of the game?, well vladimir is doing the same thing too, with just 3 sec more cd. Is it too strong on an assassin?, well in my opinion zeds, talon, KZs, katas are harder 2 catch then the fish even with his e ability. in every perspectiv are other champions who can similar things, if u look at the win- and pick rates even better the the fish..

q onhit: im reliefed ur not craptalking... with 1/3 health w-q, when hes unfed is around the dmg it does, but thats it, right? How do u mean run away? which player doesnt trade with a fully open fizz without cds? From which elo are talking. Y, this probably happens in bronze that people dont trade, but why shall we take a bronze matchup as our example?

U probably have to take a more precise example so i can understand the problems. But take a reality-example: Every assassin or ap-carry can trade the fizz back, thats why fizz early laning is so bad.

Chillsection

Stoned Lil Tree1 votes

Bump

stuartk111 votes

I would imagine that trying to balance Fizz is a nightmare. I feel that they don't even need to buff him, but instead, redistribute his power. I would actually say that they should increase the AP ratios on his W and Q and increase the cooldown of his E at later ranks. I think that this would let him actually assassinate his target, and not gate his power from his E as much and allow for more "windows of opportunity" for his opponent to punish him for poor decisions. A lot of people hate his Q E combo in lane, and while you can still hit him as he travels towards you with Q, having a longer cooldown on his E would reduce the amount of times he could do this, and instead, actually allow Riot to add power and damage to his other skills. Increase the AP ratio of his W activation and the base damage of Q at ranks 3-5, letting him assassinate targets more frequently and without as much reliance on his ultimate.

Stoned Lil Tree1 votes

Hi Stuartk11

These changes sound maintainable. The cd increase on e would help people claiming they have problem laning against him (even when Fizz , in my point of view, has one of the weakest laning mid) and ap ratio increases on q and w can help ap fizz getting relevant again. One thing that bothers me though, is the included dfg in the ult.. Because after these changes u proposed an dfg-ult would probably be a bit an overkill (assassins shouldnt be able to kill tanks with one rotation). Instead we could change dfg-effect to an grivious wound-, or bleeding-effect or just remove it again. Making q unflashable again would help Fizz lategame enourmous too...

Another idea i recently red, was making the w an aa resetting onhit ability for one aa. Similar to Kassadins new w, with higher ratios but just for one hit.

Or what about making Fizz ult from an direction targeted ability to an unit targeting ability. I could even imagine changing his q to an skillshot. what do u think about such changes?

greetings Chillsection

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