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Now that we have a badass Shen splash art, can have a discussion about his rework?

Rokr·2/9/2015, 6:03:59 PM·15 votes·13,582 views

http://s019.radikal.ru/i619/1412/a4/2766ed419ff9.jpg

Credits to Afrocream for the awesome art.

Now on to the core of the subject: why is Shen untouched so far in the current meta? Patch 5.2, why are we still arguing about Zed and Lee-sin or even Sona in the forums? Why is Shen so barely seen and played? Why do we absolutely need a Duo-queue in order for a good Shen player to perform? What is he lacking? Too much skill involved for the rewards? You miss a taunt and fear to get reported? I just don't understand why my favorite champion feels unplayable at the moment.

It seems like Riot has forgotten the tanks they have created initially, only to be replaced by nearly-broken AP "battle mages" (or AP-bruisers). Am I the only one feeling like this? Any ideas on how we can have Shen shine again in the top lane? Even the jungle lane? Should I be going full AP just like the current trend?!

Thanks for the construction ideas coming in, let's please stay civil and remember,

Stand United.

102 Comments

Sinlaire2/9/2015, 7:17:27 PM10 votes

Actually i read a Red comment somewhere in the last week or two about him that literally said this. I'll be paraphrasing, but the meaning is intact.

"We would like to rework Shen, but we're not sure how to go about it. First of all we dont know exactly how to define his role since he's tanky, and yet a ninja. His kit however doesnt really exemplify that of a ninja at all and really just seems like a bundle of stats. If we ever do rework him, and we might, we would first have to address exactly what role we would like him to fill and how we could retain his core character without changing him too drastically. We believe we would keep his ult as we believe that a ninja suddenly appearing by an ally is thematically good and completely iconic for the character.

one of our biggest issues however is that not only are we unsure of which direction we want to take him, but current players in spite of his flaws find him fun to play regardless, which inevitably and sadly puts him low down on our list of priorities."

it was kind of sad to see as Shen is a character i deeply enjoy as well, which naturally forced me to relate to the Rioters last comment in that they struggle with what to do with him because people enjoy him as is, even if his kit does have a bit of an identity crisis and no major strengths.

KING OF MASKS2/9/2015, 7:07:43 PM3 votes

I don't ever play him but Shen is such a neat champion, it would be amazing if he (along with a few other forgotten tanks) somehow wormed his way into the meta.

pls rito let tanks tank again

Lord Graves III2/10/2015, 3:09:47 AM3 votes

I feel he needs a rework, but not because he is bad. Shen has a monkey on his back called Stand United. While his kit may need deeper work, I argue that a disproportionately large part of Shen's kit power is spent on that damn ult.

TLDR: I think his ult needs changed. It needs to not be global, and needs to be more forgiving. It just takes up too much of his power budget.

Yes its high skillcap, yes it is gamechangingly powerful, but unfortunately every part of Shen is kept weak.

His Q does minimal damage, his passive has poor base and scaling, his E is long cooldown and punishingly high cost when missed, his shield is low power and poor scaling. Every part of these abilities are kept weak because Shen's ult is STILL strong enough to make up for it.

Unfortunately his ult had a long long cooldown and is tricky to use. When used correctly though it amounts to free kills and towers.

I feel any attempt to change Shen's kit should start with changing his ult. It will be painful, but it needs to be done.

I'd change his ult by reducing its range cooldown, and channel time. Reduce the range to about 1 screen's length, perhaps 1600-2000 range units. (I eyeballed a range based on the maximum initiation range of Jarvan's EQR combo, or Zac's elastic slingshot. I'd then reduce the cooldown to something very very, very low. Something in the realm of maybe 20-40 seconds. Let him channel it in 1 second. All of this adds up to increase Shen's defensive mobility, allowing him to have a solid role in teamfights as a tank who swoops in to protect his allies in the nick of time. He gets to ult more, but shen actually has to spend time doing leg work to set up ganks or saves in skirmishing or splitpushing situations. It is a complete nerf, and in a vacuum it looks like a kneecapping, but I feel its a better defined ult that allows for more strength to be put into shens base kit while still giving shen that superhero ninja moment, and with far greater frequency.

Also, thanks for starting this thread OP. I'd love to talk about the tank that left me addicted to rage. Every time I play shen I curse the fact that most of his strength is in hard to notice or access places. I usually feel like an ER doctor. WHY CAN"T I SAVE ALL THESE WOUNDED!

junglerboy162/9/2015, 9:29:01 PM2 votes

Rivershen. 'nuff said.

Anyway, on a more serious note, I'd say at his core, Shen seems to be in a weird spot. He is a ninja, but he is a tank, that is about as oxymoronic as it gets. He should be tanky through things like being hard to catch or keep track of, not just stacking health and taking the beating head on. His kit should focus on durability through avoiding incoming damage, not just soaking it up. He should keep his ultimate relatively unchanged, because that is basically the reason to pick Shen right now (and that is its own issue).

From what I've read from Rioter feed back, Shen's big problems (and why they are wont to buff him without reworking him) are that he lacks counter play and is low interaction to any opponent. They want to get rid of his Vorpal Blade in its current state because when he is good, it makes him unbearable to play against (so they say). The want to also rework his passive entirely along with his shield, because both are low interaction, and when the shield is strong, he is overbearing in lane, but when it is weak, he is rather wimpy. His taunt, while unique, is also just not that great. Taunt as a CC is a very sloppy, lazy form of CC since it just shows that the champ is weak and lousy enough in the rest of their kit that they need to literally FORCE the enemy to attack them instead of their allies. A good tank can soft taunt everyone on the enemy team through a combination of CC threat, burst, and/or damage blocking that makes killing all of their allies harder to kill (see Maokai, Sion, Amumu, Sejuani, Braum, etc.). A real tank is supposed to be just enough of a threat that they make it at least mostly worthwhile to try to kill them instead of your carries. Right now, Shen has a little bit of utility, moderate damage, and an ult that, while significantly helping allies out in a fight BEFORE he gets there, has 0 impact in terms of making the enemy ever have a reason to bother attacking him instead of anyone else on the once he arrives.

Basically, His kit is extremely weak because of the excessive power of his ult, which is also badly designed in that it and the rest of his kit offers no reason that he would ever be worthy of attacking unless he built FULL AP and nuked you down somehow, which defeats the purpose of being a tank.

Knight SoIaire 2/9/2015, 10:13:45 PM2 votes

It seems like Riot has forgotten the tanks they have created initially, only to be replaced by nearly-broken AP "battle mages" (or AP-bruisers). Am I the only one feeling like this?

yes you are alone becuase thats not the case riot released tanks to soak up the damage but didnt give them anything in their kits that serves this purpose, so they gave them cc and good base damage instead making them tanky fighters instead of actual tanks and then they nerfed any defense into oblivion where it just doesnt compete with damage and built in arpen bruisers offer

the only true take on a tank in this game is braum becuase he actualy tanks the damage instead of trading with enemy carries

ÁCTION IS COMING2/9/2015, 10:21:18 PM2 votes

Why not make him an assassin since that's what ninja's are supposed to be, or something like irelia

Rinky Dinky2/9/2015, 9:22:40 PM2 votes

I REALLY do not think Shen needs a rework. He was a godly pick for a very very very long time, and is only unplayed now due to a meta shift.

Shen will rise again at some point. He still works very well within certain comps. Is a great niche pick for solo q.

The only thing I see being changed are straight up buffs/ new interections with some abilities. I saw someone suggest that his ulti cooldown be lowered, but be very high if it is interrupted.

pleep2/10/2015, 12:52:25 AM1 votes

So much crying and whining on this forum