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#ChampFeelMatters

Chull·12/14/2019, 1:04:13 PM·84 votes·19,539 views

Dear Riot Scruffy I am asking that you don't put the new Sylas changes into live next week, not because they are all bad, but because it will basically kill the champion and ruin the experience for a lot of the Sylas mains and players out there. Simply put the changes to his kit will make his numbers look better on paper but make his game play feel slow and clunky, like we aren't even playing the same champion. We aren't asking for much, just that you reconsider these changes and hold off on them until further testing is done to be able to make some good changes while keeping his game play the same fluid fun one that a lot of players fell in love with. Sylas is one of the few champs in the game that makes it fun for us. Please don't take that away.

Comment #ChampFeelMatters and your thoughts and suggestions in the chat if you agree and maybe they will listen to the community and tread more carefully in the future when making similar decisions with not just Sylas but other champions that need balancing. Thank you for reading!

67 Comments

GUARDIAN1K12/14/2019, 1:50:55 PM33 votes

Its not just about his numbers or the removal of execute or the removal of his shield or anything all these are problems but the the bigger problem is the w aa reset and the e2+q combo the champ on the pbe is not sylas i’ve been playing him since his pbe release and the changes make him feel nothing like sylas please revert all the changes and think of some small tuning to balance him i feel he is close to being balanced so please look into it guys

Alhoki12/14/2019, 2:06:21 PM26 votes

I don't mind the removal of his shild or the tendency to push him to be more lategame relevant. I agree with the consent to strictly make him a midlaner instead of a jungler. I just fail to see how the removal of his autoresets benefit his gameplay experience, as well as the questionable extra stack on his passive. Please, if a rioter is reading this, consider the approach of changing sylas. Please don't make him a statcheck. Currently he is a multidimensional champion and most of us Sylasplayers don't like where these changes are heading.

The changes he has recieved on the PBE push him into an assassin playstyle, where he may oneshot someone by hitting E2 and W (+Lichbane AA) on his target before using zonyas and repeating the whole process. I agree that the removal of the shild would make that playstyle less tilting for the enemy player.

In my opinion though you could just not remove his skillexpression and add some damage onto his onhit passive (not the AOE portion) and remove the damagebuff from his E2 and the shild from his E1. Perhaps make his AD ults scale a tiny bit better as it used to; his anti-mage identity I can't support (most demacian champions do physical damage anyways) and there is the question to why not just pick kassadin at that point?

CandyReign12/14/2019, 1:56:45 PM20 votes

these changes are going to ruin the champ.

FSRER12/14/2019, 2:14:35 PM17 votes

Do you think they actually have played Sylas themselves? Riot has admited in the past (and was quite a big meme back then and still is) that "A dev does not need to play his game in order to balance it". With that said, I hope you are not wondering why these changes will come through to live servers

CaptainAntiHeroz12/14/2019, 1:44:27 PM14 votes

I mean some of it seems nice like the W healing even if it doesn't connect but literally almost everything else isn't good unless they are trying to balance him by turning him into a champ thats not played

Darth Emi12/14/2019, 2:48:17 PM10 votes

I'm fully with you brother. I'm okay with losing shield and E2-Q combo, but not the AA resets, the execute, and Q+passive nerfs. His passive needs to be reverted from the old nerf it got, and his Q should either remain unchanged or slightly buffed, while pulling some power out of the current E2 on the PBE. Also, for the love of God, keep the E2 execute #ChampFeelMatters

PsionicOW12/14/2019, 2:45:57 PM8 votes

As someone who plays electrocute sylas I like some of the choices you went with here(e2 dmg, late game q2) but why remove the fluidity of the kit if you want him to be an assassin? Like rengar, imagine if you couldn’t throw bola mid air, that’s what removing e2-q and aa-w feels like on Sylas.

Hold My Lántern12/14/2019, 3:37:22 PM8 votes

Agreed. Please, Riot, reconsider those changes. They're not all bad, but Sylas will never be the same. The problem is not in numbers or shield removal, the problem is the champion is not fun to play anymore. Just like Kalista or Yuumi. We fell in love with his mechanics, they are what makes Sylas being Sylas. It's so sad that rework is going to make all the hours spent by lots players to learn him pointless.

#ChampFeelMatters

JimTheSnail12/14/2019, 2:38:15 PM7 votes

He has a similar issue to Kalista . He has a really easy to use kit that allows a lot of burst or DPS. That along with his current shield and W sustain. Late game he is a monster. the last nerf to his ult and the moving of his shield (again) is them trying to give him SOME weakness. But like kalista. It is either insanely weak or insanely broken. (look at ryze. they have tried retaining his kit for so long and it is still insanely hard to balance).

Yuumi is kind of the same but Unholy Grail is what makes her insanely broke.

Garen is adopted12/14/2019, 4:02:47 PM7 votes

Pretty sure their intent is to kill the champion to give more space for Sett, how they did with Yuumi because she was ..decent!? If even that.. poker and healer, and now is just a ward that press E once every 30s.

Varqaaa12/14/2019, 5:49:45 PM6 votes

I don't care about the numbers, just please keep his fluidity intact. The champ FEELS so smooth and good, don't change that. Auto-resets and E2-Q are critical to the champ (and execute W is pretty big part of his identity too....)

KFCeytron12/14/2019, 4:25:14 PM6 votes

I have a text file on my computer. The text file is a list of links. Each link points to a post I've made complaining about Sylas's kit and how it is an inherently unbalanceable mess. There are 42 links in the list, because Sylas's kit is an inherently unbalanceable mess. I am sorry that Riot convinced you to get attached to any iteration of it. To be fair, that's almost the only kind of kit they make these days, so people who want to get interested in new champions don't have much of a choice.

i hug u (つ . •́ _ʖ •̀ .)つ

Deymize 12/14/2019, 4:21:07 PM5 votes

These changes to the destruction of our master, please do not remove his shield and the possibility of use E2+Q. This is nerf not buffs according to me and for the most part.

Spice and Wolf12/14/2019, 3:41:40 PM5 votes

Yes they should everytime the community ask for something and gets it , things get worse

Salivas12/14/2019, 10:48:36 PM5 votes

I believe he belongs with his current play style of autoweaving combo based character like riven

#ChampFeelMatters

Levi Shãdow12/15/2019, 6:51:03 AM5 votes

i never understand why riot always try to make this to make the game easier for low skill players, like there is already enough easy champs for new players, why remove sylas animations cancels like wtf, his E2&q is removed too.....

FirstBloodMaster12/14/2019, 3:52:09 PM5 votes

How do they want Sylas to be played in the midlane while also removing the shield which is his only tool against mages to survive the lane properly ?

Also adding 5 more charges to his passive will not help him to clear the waves, just buff the base damage on nearby enemies because it actually feels so useless.

Support Position12/15/2019, 11:47:27 PM4 votes

They dont care... they'll do it anyway.

Galio about 16 iterations after his trash tier rework.

Akali - Screaming for revert so they can finally play their champion.

Aatrox - Akali.

AurelionSol - Akali

Ryze - 10 different iterations.

Taliyah - Literally forgotten even by a lot of the mains because riot touched her.

Sejuani - Useless all game because riot looks at her.

Evelynn - I'm only useful for pressing R and being toxic invis.

Katarina - Literally never played except a handful of mains.

Kayle - 16, I won the game.

Nunu - I'm still invisible in W.

They don't care about what mains gotta say. Riot just care about how much money they're gonna make from making them look better and "fresh"

Dotty LB12/14/2019, 5:53:03 PM4 votes

Riot seems to be on this binge of ruining champion Gameplay for the sake of balance and well i think its terrible.

Shardbearer12/14/2019, 8:08:22 PM4 votes

These changes are absolutely terrible. What a mess.

Worst JG Wins12/14/2019, 11:07:52 PM4 votes

Hi Sylas Mains Sub-Reddit

Casualscrub6912/14/2019, 5:24:14 PM4 votes

Changes makes him Seem like a new less fluid champ Pls fix rito

Champfeelmatters

homage the boss12/14/2019, 5:37:41 PM4 votes

I honestly didn’t know what to expect when I heard sylas was getting buffed but these changes are a bit less than optimal. Sylas is more enjoyable being his fun and interactive self that he is currently. The pbe changes just makes his abilities feel either slow or unnatural. The feeling of busting out a full combo is basically now gone and he just doesn’t feel the same. Giving him better numbers this way isn’t exactly the best way of improving the champ as you're taking away a lot of what made him fun to play.

zaire9012/14/2019, 10:59:53 PM3 votes

What made people care now cause I remember when people said this during the assassin rework this was considered alright for the sake of balance.

Acemaster8112/15/2019, 2:17:43 AM3 votes

I've made a post about the now normal cycle of new champion relaxes, this post actually inspired me to make it, and I hope your voices are heard. Sadly there are cases where they were not and this is upsetting even if I've never touched Sylas. The list of champions made problems by reworks, orcompletely and utterly changed by reworked, as well as new champions that are flawed in practice is growing with each new champion or individual rework.

AurelionSol Irelia Garen Caitlyn Graves Ryze Yuumi Azir Kalista Aatrox Malzahar Kayle Qiyana Senna Pyke Skarner Zoe Akali. When creating anything for pro play, if Riot creates a champion specifically and specially tailored to pro play in any role and gives then overloaded or kits only good for being flashy it hurts the playerbase. I wish you guys would stop taking hits like this because it sucks to see your favorite champion be taken away from you. Was AurelionSol old W strong and a toxic permaslow with item 3116? Maybe, but he has clear weaknesses that were so exploitable by his counters it felt so unfair at times. I've gotten used to the new W, but I played him long enough to appreciate what the champion has lost. I can't say that for someone like Aatrox who I did not even know much about until he got reworked. I was surprised he came out so different but I never picked up the champion, old or new.

Ragnaveil12/15/2019, 4:57:21 AM3 votes

First off, they jumped the gun and did tons of fucking changes to him because he was problematic (not because of the kit, it was Aftershock and it took them forever to notice it was Aftershock), so they sunk resources into pointless work, which already started ruining him, so they did more, and then more, and then more. Man, its almost like this is the same shit that has KILLED the Aatrox rework currently, and since Riot's too busy being mage biased, means Sylas will likely end up like Aatrox regardless if we ask them to stop or not.

Keep the passive change, but: A- Make the primary auto still deal phys on top of the aoe damage B- re-rig the auto animation to alternate between left swing and right swing C- give him either better attack speed base , or give him what taric has for his passive.

AshesandCinder12/14/2019, 8:06:27 PM3 votes

This seems to be a Galio situation all over again tbh. High base damages, high scalings, and alot of built in defense (the hp changes alone put him at the highest base hp in the game at level 18, a whopping 2480, which was previously held by Galio at 2466). Of course, I don't play sylas and part of the hp increase is probably to counteract the loss of the shield, but those numbers are kinda nuts.

stylas12/14/2019, 8:53:49 PM3 votes

being a sylas OTP. I 100% agree on this. I dont care for the AP shield. Once the gray shield was removed im sure none of us sylas mains cared for the AP shield that much. but the AA resets removed is a big problem. SYLAS IS NOT FUN ANYMORE. please riot just buff his passive damage a bit and give him his AA cancels. then he will be fine.

Edit; E2+Q needs to be back on aswell.

DCYOUNG88812/14/2019, 11:40:02 PM3 votes

First they decided to change the shield so that it would activate after landing an e (which is fine in my opinion gives high risk/reward) then made it into only a magic shield during first e which really does not help him at all and makes him worse and increase his e cd and also the ult cd too. It's like they want him to not be played in pros. Honestly he needs the tools to survive and removing his shield completely takes away an identity in his kit as a skirmisher and they allow him to heal off non-champions which is really counter-intuitive to his learning curve.

WAZZZUP50012/15/2019, 12:20:46 AM3 votes

Honestly, when making a new champ, design should be about how they feel to play and play against. Numbers can come afterwards, because what's more important is everyone having fun.

floo12/14/2019, 5:26:39 PM2 votes

To be fair, he is probably the champ with the most mechanics in 1 kit (after aphelios now? idk)

He has a shield, heal, 2 dashes (1 conditional), execute damage, 2 kinds of aoe, knock-up, slow and his R makes him even more of a generalist.

It's not that I find it great to remove mechanics from champions, but newer ones just get more and more things pressed into 4 abilities and a passive, that at some point they have to lose something. Aatrox, Akali, Yuumi, Irelia, Zoe, now Sylas and I wouldn't be surprised if Senna and Aphelios follow soon. They all lost quite a lot of things in their kit to make them less oppressive over all other champions.

What I'm trying to say is, he is such a generalist, that in his current form he has to have weak numbers or is just broken otherwise. They approach it exactly from that perspective, buff him in numbers but take away what makes him problematic.

WoLveZ1212/16/2019, 2:08:08 AM2 votes

Sylas shouldn’t get these new changes, they’re terrible, instead what riot should’ve done was simply give him a small buff in his abilities and also give his E shield back. Taking his Shield away, lowering his base stats (armour, mr and health) and the W heal alongside with the execute no only takes away how satisfying the to hit the ability, it also lowers his defensive capabilities as a champion

Since Sylas is pretty much ass against any kind of ad champs and the fact that his armour has been Reduced to 27 will make it even more difficult to face champions like a Yasuo or a Zed then riot should honestly add his shield back (not his magic one) especially when his health is literally reduced to 525

Another problem sylas will now face is his mana problems thanks to his W mana cost being 80 now after being lowered to 40 which doesn’t make any sense ( considering that his W doesn’t do anything). His passive is another thing, I’m fine u can stack 3 passive charges but reducing the radius of it is a bit to much especially if ur in a hard poke lane like a Veigar or Neeko, u won’t be able to efficiently get cs now if ur constantly getting harassed in lane.

Riot plz Think about what ur doing sylas and other champions aswell

Harden Stepback12/15/2019, 5:13:50 AM2 votes

Riot wont listen, they f'd up too many champions to care

Emo Twink12/15/2019, 10:30:42 AM2 votes

They keep destroying the feeling of champions. I already miss Yuumi pre 'buff' because she feels horrible to play, and literally made her way more afk than before. Loved moving into enchanter but man making a champ feel clunky is horrible. I hope they don't do that to Sylas too for yall Sylas players.