Skip to content

Can someone give context to the Talon nerf?

Ridiculed··3 votes·1,198 views

I truly find the removal of his silence as a crippling blow to Talon and I want to understand why this was done.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a red-post on the subject?

9 Comments

3ngin33r2 votes

Not my opinion, its what Riot explained in some thread a while back

0bliterator242 votes

Riot hates silences on assasins. Case and point Leblanc and Kassadin .

CEO Cicada1 votes

No what Riot hates is targeted hard CC there's just more on assassins. There are very few champions left that kept their targeted hard CC now and they're tanks or supports whose only job is to CC or the rest of their kit sucks. Reason being targeted hard CC pretty much means 0 play making potential for the opponent especially when you can 100-0 them on assassins. No play making potential = no fun. I'm sure Riot doesn't mind hard CC for assassins so long as there's ways for the opponent to outplay it like dodging Ahri charms and Leblanc snares.

3ngin33r1 votes

Every morning when balance team wakes up they come up with a new direction for balance

Once talon comes in with his silence opponents cant react( as in flash away or fight back with spells ) and he can possibly 100-0 them or escape using his ultimate. To add counterplay we gave a 99% slow in place of silence

Ridiculed1 votes

Every morning when balance team wakes up they come up with a new direction for balance

Once talon comes in with his silence opponents can't react( as in flash away or fight back with spells ) and he can possibly 100-0 them or escape using his ultimate. To add counterplay we gave a 99% slow in place of silence

So Talon can't have a silence because he does damage quickly?
Then why do Garen and Chogath get to keep their silences that last twice as long as they can "100-0" you in the duration?
Or why does Veigar get to keep his cage and Lissandra get to keep hers were the same is also true?

Azor Ahai 02 votes

I actually very much agree. I don't think they should go crazy with silences, but it was a neat pocket mechanic for Leblanc too.

Chogath can silence a whole team which is really crazy.

Doogmi1 votes

There are many poor comparisons here so I'll start first with saying cho Gath, garen, veigar, and lissandra are not assassins and really shouldn't be compared to talon. The next point is the silence+heavy burst+mobility combination leaves you with 0 options for counterplay. You either run and maybe live, or you auto attack and more than likely die. It seems like always having an option to trade is becoming a priority with leagues. Using the veigar liss example the counterplay is qss or taking the summer cleanse to immediately remove the stun and (hopefully) walk away clean. When you are silenced you cannot use actives. That is a massive difference in terms of being able to trade with your opponent. Banshees works in both cases when it is up. Regarding garen and cho, I assume it would be because they are Immobile and lack the burst damage. If garen didn't silence you, how would he ever get his e and ult on you after his q when you can just use your gap closer to get out of his range? Specifically it just allows his kit to function. Garen doesn't 100-0 you in 1 second unless fed nor does he scale well into late. Cho Gath is slightly similar, his damage is pretty good but same thing to run his combo land q hit w then ult. Remember his ult is extremely low ranged and a short cast time. Also cho is immobile and won't 100-0 you In a second. His q has an indicator and is extremely slow to go off. Really clear differences in how these kits work and why silence on heavy burst assassins leaves little for counterplay. Although I really think they should have compensated talon when they took the silence. He lacks an escape mechanic that other assassins have.

Constantine222 votes

Talon's kit requires a silence too like Garen. Let me explain. Talon is the only assassin with only one gap closer. What this means is : when a vayne just clicks Talon with her E to push him away, her character just runs towards him to use that ability so when Talon E's on her he gets insta pushed and he cant do anything from that point on. And dont bring the "ult stealth" for gapclosing because Stealth in League is the worst utility in the game due to the fact that its hard countered by pink wards and red lense trinket. so all a vayne has to do is bring a pink ward with her against a Talon and she can kite Talon to death. A malzahar also just click Talon with his Ult. the moment Talon E's on him he gets insta-ultied. Lucian just Dashes away the moment Talon E's and gets kited to death too. Ez the same. lissandra snares him with her E or just Ults him. Talon cant do anything right now. His kit requires a silence to do his job. and 1 second silence isnt enough to 100-0 a decent player. take for example the recent game that happened. zed (xpeke) vs Talon (Dade) . Talon found zed in the jungler... He had the advantage. the element of surprise. Also Talon had a kill more than zed if i remember correctly. Also he found zed with his W cooldown down. So here is what happened. Talon used E on zed and silenced him. During that one second he tried to burst him down. BUT. zed still managed to Ult Talon and Dodge all his blades from W and R and easily killed him. and you are telling me you cant use zonyas when Talon E's on you? a ZONYAS? an item that doesnt require a target to use like zed's ult? its just a press of a button and u instantly dodge all of Talon's Blades.

Now here is the thing. I dont mind removing silence from Talon. BUT. his current kit requires it. i mean compare him without the silence against any other assasin.

zed vs Vayne. Zed will ult a vayne. Vayne will push him away. Zed uses his W to close in AGAIN. if something goes wrong he use R to get back to his ult shadow. easy.

Talon vs Vayne. Talon E's a Vayne. Vayne pushes him away. Talon uses Ult to close in Again. but its not enough vs the tumble from vayne and she drops a pink ward and kite him to death. Talon has no other gap closer. stealth does not work for utility. only for damage.

Akali vs Vayne. Akali ults vayne. Vayne pushes her away. Akali ults again. Akali also has a zonyas. easy.

Fizz vs Vayne. Fizz Q's Vayne. Vayne pushes him away.Fizz E's in AGAIN. all that without using ulti. he also has deathfires grasp and zonyas.

Kassadin vs Vayne. kassadin just harass her with Q's and if Vayne tries to tumble towards him he Slows her with E. the moment she gets low enough he ults in and kills her. if she manages to push him away he still has zonyas. by the time zonyas stops he ults out. he can also get deathfires grasp. (he doesnt need silence thats why they removed it. he is highly mobile)

Leblanc vs Vayne. Leblanc can do both harass and use the style of kassadin al all in her. W in she gets pushed Ults in. she ults or W's back like a zed. she also has deathfires grasp and zonyas. (she doesnt need silence thats why they removed it. she is highly mobile)

Khazix has at least a heal and his jump reset. he can just wait for vayne to get low and E on her face.

Rengar has his snare so she wont tumble and he can go tanky and still do damage. something that Talon cant do. he also has a heal.

So conclusion. Talon only has one gapcloser. if he goes in either he dies or kills his target. even if he kills his target he cant go back out. the damage from ult is needed so he cant use the stealth. even if he lets her live to escape with ult he will still get pink warded. so either he just dies or he kills the target and still dies from her teamates. these things happen WITH his silence. without it these things will happen more often if not always.

Suggestion? make a rework for him so that he wont need a silence. Like having charges on his E so he can use it twice. it will still require an enemy to use it. Still risky pick.

Constantine222 votes

Or maybe the moment he E's on a target he will get a 0.5 second stealth. only for safety for those vaynes and malzahars and lissandras who have targeted abilities. Silence on Talon was for safety in the first place. when i E a target that Talon is suppose to counter (like any squishy) that means that i will have an advantage over them. right now E is a death sentence. why go in for a Q if Talons W does more damage? (since i max W first ofcourse) the only point of E was to stick to your target so you can auto them. Talon is melee. if he cant STICK to his target like a zed ( even though i consider zed a ranged -_- too many shadows and too many shurikens.) then why bother picking Talon over a zed?

More from Gameplay

More by Ridiculed