When is Veigar going to be fixed?

ItsaMeUncleMario··7 votes·1,267 views

Before Veigar's "new and improved" Event Horizon goes off in a team fight the enemy team can walk out of it, go destroy a tower, take dragon, take baren, have a cup of coffee, back to base and get full build, destroy all of your inhibitors, watch the entire Godfather trilogy, write a novel, then come back and kill you before it finally stuns absolutely nothing because anybody with the equal reflexes of a sloth with a physical disability or above can easily dodge it.

28 Comments

Fertsa5 votes

*sits and drinks your salty tears while going 26/7 as veigar

Ovion2 votes

How did you get 26/7 against a zed mid? O_o

Trídent4 votes

Simple.

  1. Our Supreme Overlord drank coffee 2)His Mighty Shortness put on his hat 3)The Supreme Overlord looked at Zed
  2. His Short Majesty disintegrated him
Hinro Honato2 votes

From the few games I've gone against a zed with veigar he wasn't that hard to deal with honestly. If he goes to ult you then you drop a cage at your feet and he dies. The one thing veigar does very well is remove squishies from the game instantly. zed is no different.

MrButtermancer4 votes

It's not just the stun... it's the fact that Veigar also has no mobility, so if (when) it doesn't land, he's in serious trouble, and he's basically dependent on it to land W. Q too, to a large degree, because as a skill shot even the best player has to either be at point blank range (which is okay because Veigar is a tank right) or fling it somewhere it is more likely to hit and pray.

Q basically means he can't trade in lane.

TotalJerk1 votes

{quoted}

even the best player has to either be at point blank range (which is okay because Veigar is a tank right) or fling it somewhere it is more likely to hit and pray.

Are you kidding me? It has 950 range and 2000 missile speed. It's the same speed as Ezreal's Q.

MrButtermancer4 votes

Ezreal has autoattacks to fall back on for damage, and he also has low CD mobility. He can get close enough (and reposition enough) to hit with it because he has the tools to do so. Ezreal also tellingly builds Iceborn Gauntlet for Q builds because even after it hits, he needs that extra slow to escape or continue doing damage.

Veigar can access none of this. It's a completely different situation.

TotalJerk1 votes

All of that is totally irrelevant to what I'm saying. My point is that Ezreal's Q is not at all hard to hit, and the same goes for Veigar's.

MrButtermancer5 votes

It is completely relevant. Within the scope of a game, only Ezreal can run forwards, fire Q, and Arcane Shift out when enemies begin to close. If Veigar tries that, he gets dogpiled. Within the scope of a game, if Veigar needs to Q to secure a kill, he can't blink sideways to fire around minions. Ezreal can. Ezreal has a significant positional advantage due to mobility that Veigar does not have access to.

Additionally, Ezreal can supplement his Q with autoattacks, which are targeted.

If you try to analyze an ability in complete isolation you are making a terrible mistake. Ezreal has tools in his kit that allow his Q to hit. You're trying to dismiss synergy because you think that somehow strengthens your argument. It doesn't. It just makes it look like you haven't thought things completely through. Which you haven't.

TotalJerk2 votes

Whether or not he can hop around has fuck all to do with the difficulty of aiming your goddamn Q. Arcane shifts do not magically make Ezreal's Qs lock on to their targets. Regardless of the rest of his kit, it is still so fast(among the fastest skillshots in the game) that is virtually undodgeable on reaction.

If you can't hit Qs, you just flat out can't aim.

MrButtermancer5 votes

I... think we are discussing mechanics across a gap in experience approaching an order of magnitude. You actually lack the knowledge to have a meaningful conversation about this. It's obvious this isn't productive. Have a good day.

TotalJerk1 votes

You're talking out of your ass and puffing it up by being long winded. There. I was gonna be more civil, but that terribly veiled remark took out what little patience I had.

Keep building item 3152 on Veigar, though.

IGotScuttleCrabs1 votes

Gunna agree with TotalJerk. The initial complaint was that Veigars Q is difficult to land and usually requires his stun. When in fact its not. Its just as good as Ezreals Q and many other skill shots. therefore its actually not THAT hard to land unless 50% of the skill shots in this game are hard to land.

MrButtermancer3 votes

Thing is, there are a huge number of ways that skillshots, even fast ones, can go awry before they reach the target, and many of them are zero-counterplay. The most commonly encountered in lane trading is the forward blink (where the enemy goes over the projectile.) Many common mids have the ability to do this often. Kat, Zed, Talon, and LeBlanc being a few just off the top of my head.

If they engage at exactly the same time (or a split second afterwards) you go to harass, they win hands-down. This means that even when Q might not be so devestating against certain match-ups, it's even easier to counterpick Veigar than it was before, which was honestly just pick Fizz or Talon and laugh all the way to the bank. Veigar's counters are among the hardest counters I've ever encountered in League.

I'm not necessarily willing to dismiss the possibility that many skillshots are too hard to land. I think this game would probably benefit from more targeted damage, given that it makes mobility less overwhelming. I honestly wish mana meant more for a champion too. That strategic play made the earlier League of Legends very satisfying to play. It was more cerebral and less twitch. Trades were more intentional and calculated. Less uncertainty about spending abilities made the game more like a chess match. Most champions had resources and they mattered.

But specifically Veigar suffers a lot from being a squishy champion with no mobility that can't reliably trade in lane. He makes one mistake and gets crushed by many common mids. He has to rely on his only (arguably) defensive skill in order to have a chance at combo-ing. I've seen him four times since the "buff" and three of those he was support. And the mid fed.

Meanwhile Annie's targeted damage stuns, Vlad's targeted damage heals him, and LeBlanc's targeted damage is supplemented by excellent mobility. Veigar is in a rough spot, and no small part of this is the state of his Q.

IGotScuttleCrabs1 votes

Yea i think we're on different pages. Do champs have ways to nullify Veigars Q? Absolutely. Does it make it a hard to land skillshot? Well if Ezreals Q, Gnars Q, Yasous whirlwind, eta are all only easier duo to their mobility than yes. But if Jinx zapper, Sivir boomerang, Lulus, Q are all also hard to land since they can't specifically make it easier for themselves, then you're right.

Orbv2 votes

To be fair, what TOTALJERK didn't correctly phrase is that, Veigar has NEVER been a trader. How have you EVER traded on his previous target Q with 600 range?

His stun happening instantly made it so he COULD land a Q without repercussions. But having a skillshot with 350 more range means that he can at least fire it and try to land one in relative safety. The change in his Q was to benefit him because of the thing they did to his stun (which I am still not happy about).

SwapShadows2 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1hHxUX01-riot-make-veigars-q-point-and-click

my thread that I made adresses his biggest problems, mostly relating to his Q.

The problem with his kit is that his Q removed all of his reliability, his stun after the recent buffs is actually not that bad.

lB2kGRlc8y4 votes

Returning it to targeted wouldn't fix Veigar's primary issue, his 5% reliability W. The skill shot aspect simply made him more about ap framing from safety than it used to be. It basically made him more safe in lane, but in terms of dueling, its worse, so it has pros and cons.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

{quoted}

Returning it to targeted wouldn't fix Veigar's primary issue, his 5% reliability W. The skill shot aspect simply made him more about ap framing from safety than it used to be. It basically made him more safe in lane, but in terms of dueling, its worse, so it has pros and cons.

I think you mean 100% reliability W. Land a cage, free WQ. Stick the W over their casters when your minions are about to die, they either eat a W to get to your minions, they get in range of your Q/E to get minions, or they miss minions.

Trídent2 votes

If you do that, you will go oom very quickly.

Not 100%. The W can also be dodged while in cage, the radius isn't that large

The Bearded Bard2 votes

Veigar is fantastic now. So much more fun to play now, and if you take the time to actually learn him, he's much stronger than he was before. The stun is still abysmally easy to land, like seriously, if you're consistently missing it then you should maybe consider an easier champion like Annie. And the Q change is amazing. More than one targeted ability is lame as hell, and now you can double Q farm, harass and farm at the same time, and nuke two champions at once instead of just one.

ItsaMeUncleMario1 votes

Well you can maybe hit it most of the time if you are playing with vegetables, but I am playing with mentally capably people who can play champions with zero mobility and still escape the stun with no effort.

Ovion1 votes

at least if they have no mobility , they have to burn flash to escape a gank :P

Calabok1 votes

He was already fixed.

Nicorus 1 votes

Lets not forget that say you do trap an enemy in your event horizon (rare) champs like Yasuo can just sweeping blade out of it. I'm ok with it showing where its being cast, but other than flashing out, you shouldn't just be able to use an ability to escape on already high mobility champs.

Edit: flash and flash like abilities, such as ezreal, or ekko

TotalJerk3 votes

They patched it to stop leaps and dashes a really long time ago.

TotalJerk1 votes

I hate to break it to you, but if you still have a problem with Veigar since riot decreased the warmup and overloaded the fuck out of his Q, you're just bad.

You don't use it exclusively for the stun anymore, you use it to trap, zone, and block paths. Q has boosted range, is spammable, and undodgeable while E is targeted. The only problem he has now is that his W is shit, but they can't really buff that because they shoved so much of his power budget into Q

Trídent2 votes

Rammus ok

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