The state of game balance. (Genuine discussion)

MajorMillow·Apr 24, 2019·0 votes·1,299 views

Okay so first off I actually just want someone from riot to actually talk to us about the thought process behind champion balance because it honestly doesn't make sense to me how they go about it.

For example, Sylas got gutted in patch 9.7. Like completely gutted to a point where anyone who isn't a pro just can't play them consistently since there are just so many better picks. He went from a 51% win rate to a staggering 45-46% win rate. He has since been left without any reconciliation buff. I understand that he was incredibly strong but anyone could see from the moment those patch notes went out that those nerfs would make the champion unplayable. And if all of the community saw it I'm sure that Riot saw it coming too. So why did they gut him so hard? They did the exact same thing with rework Akali (albeit rework Akali was horribly designed from the get-go with her true stealth. When everyone in the community knows immediately after seeing her gameplay reveal that she will be hell to balance I'm astonished that she got through development completely with that move in her kit.)

In complete contrast to Sylas, Jinx has been sitting at the highest win rate adc for over 5 patches now. Sitting at a solid 53% win rate and is undoubtedly a really reliable pick in any matchup. The same goes for Vayne, while she has not been at as high of a win rate as Jinx that is only because she is much more harder to play effectively but if you know how to play her she's clearly the best adc in the game. Both of these champions have been sitting as the best of the best in the bot lane for over 5 patches with not a single nerf to either of them while Sylas gets gutted and hasn't been brought back up to speed at all.

Another example is Morgana, with her recent update and buff to her W and R she has been one of the best midlaners in the game (while Sylas was still strong) and has yet to be properly dealt with and has been sitting at a 53% win rate in the mid lane for 4 patches.

How does Riot go about balancing champions? It really feels like a personal bias. The thing that tipped it over the edge to make me believe this was the Urgot rework and when he was gutted. He was one of the best champions in the game and was gutted with nerfs at one point and went to an abysmal 43% win rate. It only took Riot two patches to give him major buffs and make him really strong again and then toned him to make him balanced. Why on earth can the same not be said about countless other champions in the game currently who have been gutted and left with no buff? Rakan has been really feeling the nerfs to him as of late and clearly could do with a buff but yet Riot refuses to give him one.

5 Comments

NovaPhApr 24, 20191 votes

I think the real problem with people's perception of balance is that the discussions are always very short-term minded. Sylas is weak right now, but from what I saw they are going to be giving him compensation buffs next patch. People always want problems to be fixed the very next day, but Riot's patch cycle is weekly/monthly. The only time they'd nerf something immediately is if it presents a large problem that requires an emergency fix. Jinx and Riven aren't really in a state where they require emergency fixes...they're just good right now in the current meta. If the meta shifts in two months and people stop using Jinx, for example, because Nautilus (or something else) takes over bot lane...then does she still need to be nerfed?

VolatileAkaliApr 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I think the real problem with people's perception of balance is that the discussions are always very short-term minded. Sylas is weak right now, but from what I saw they are going to be giving him compensation buffs next patch. People always want problems to be fixed the very next day, but Riot's patch cycle is weekly/monthly. The only time they'd nerf something immediately is if it presents a large problem that requires an emergency fix. Jinx and Riven aren't really in a state where they require emergency fixes...they're just good right now in the current meta. If the meta shifts in two months and people stop using Jinx, for example, because Nautilus (or something else) takes over bot lane...then does she still need to be nerfed?

They said for months Akali will get fixed, yet nothing. Riven is OP whatever you say, it is that eastern regions just don't complain about her even though she is also OP there.

MajorMillowApr 25, 20191 votes

Well, the issue is that there are plenty of champions in the game right now, if you read my points, who have been gutted and have been given no buffs to compensate them while others, like Urgot, were immediately buffed after being gutted because....reasons? It's either incompetence or favouritism. Morgana is one of the best midlaners for nearly two months with no nerfs while Sylas gets gutted, Rakan gets gutted and still has no buffs given to him. Pyke, sitting at a very very comfortable win rate and was completely balanced, got his Q and E buffed. Like what? How on earth does Pyke require a buff but Rakan doesn't. It just doesn't make any sense to me how they go about balancing champions. It just seems like a completely random roulette on who gets buffed or nerfed at this stage. It used to be where you could tell what the patches were going to bring but nowadays it's just "Oh okay I guess wits end is buffed now while Stormrazor is useless on every adc except Kai'sa" (Who only builds it because it gives her Empowered E+Q, not because it's a good item).

NovaPhApr 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well, the issue is that there are plenty of champions in the game right now, if you read my points, who have been gutted and have been given no buffs to compensate them while others, like Urgot, were immediately buffed after being gutted because....reasons? It's either incompetence or favouritism. Morgana is one of the best midlaners for nearly two months with no nerfs while Sylas gets gutted, Rakan gets gutted and still has no buffs given to him. Pyke, sitting at a very very comfortable win rate and was completely balanced, got his Q and E buffed. Like what? How on earth does Pyke require a buff but Rakan doesn't. It just doesn't make any sense to me how they go about balancing champions. It just seems like a completely random roulette on who gets buffed or nerfed at this stage. It used to be where you could tell what the patches were going to bring but nowadays it's just "Oh okay I guess wits end is buffed now while Stormrazor is useless on every adc except Kai'sa" (Who only builds it because it gives her Empowered E+Q, not because it's a good item).

I've watched multiple videos talking about how they balance league, and it's really important to understand that they have so many factors to take into account when working with the game. They don't just use win rates to determine which champions to change. They look at play-rate, skill level, and they have much more detailed data collection than what's provided on public websites. They explain why they make each change in the patch notes to the best of their ability, but I can't really deny there's probably some favoritism or incompetence sometimes. Morgana did get nerfs once Riot decided morgana was a problem in midlane, and one of the main reasons that Sylas had to be gutted was because (for example) you can see that he was basically permabanned in the LCS. When it comes to sampling data, they directly state that they can't just take data from one game to decide what they want to change...and it probably takes months for them to follow a process.

First they have to find a problem, which would take weeks of collecting sample data...then they'd have to decide how they want to deal with the problem...then they have to test the changes internally and on the PBE...and based on what they have said it takes several days for them to actually code the patches themselves. It's not a quick process.

Also, for the record, Stormrazor being useless is a consequence of player choice...it's not really Riot's fault. The item is useful, but people are just choosing not to use it. I was playing a game just the other day that had a really awesome build of toplane Lulu with Stormrazor.

CherryBluApr 28, 20191 votes

Source?

If you want an answer as to why they gut champions, its purely due to professional play, end of story. Because the champs chosen have a huge impact on team compositions. There is alot of money and fanbase around this and key factor in why one op champs gets gutted vs another op champ that doesn't. So imo, global win % has little to do with justifying nerfs, however global win % helps justify buffs. Nerfs (especially brutal ones) are mostly justified at professional level statistics and that makes sense.