aurelion sol q delay

Nonautologous·Apr 5, 2016·7 votes·1,443 views

Does anyone else feel that the delay in q cast to activation time should be equivilant to that of the similar anivia stun and gragas cask? Considering their similar kits and recent adjustments over the year.

25 Comments

AmelieApr 5, 20162 votes

In other words, to be more responsive? Because it feels like I can never cast it a short distance even if I activate Q again.

DrNovaApr 5, 20162 votes

I completely understand why there is a delay, to make jumping him his weakness. (though I'm not sure the delay is neccesary really)

But the wonkyness bothers me. You can't really tell when you can activate it, leading to lack of clarity and really just smashing q till it pops.

Just feels off.

QuephaApr 5, 20162 votes

That's intentional so that Aurelion Sol has a weakness of some kind. His main source of damage is strong, ALWAYS up, and costs nothing, he doesn't even need to stop for an auto attack animation which makes him an insane kiter. Giving him a reset button on a regular ability for every time someone actually manages to make it through his orbits would basically mean he has no weakness.

You have to burn an ult or summoner spell if someone gets on you.

LOL XDDDDDDDDDDDApr 6, 20165 votes

{quoted}

That's intentional so that Aurelion Sol has a weakness of some kind. His main source of damage is strong, ALWAYS up, and costs nothing, he doesn't even need to stop for an auto attack animation which makes him an insane kiter. Giving him a reset button on a regular ability for every time someone actually manages to make it through his orbits would basically mean he has no weakness.

You have to burn an ult or summoner spell if someone gets on you.

I actually think that his weakness is way to easy to exploit. I understand that he needs some kind of weakness, but the fact that that weakness can make him totally useless in some match ups is just straight up bad.

Any champion that has any sort of gap closing mechanic will just destroy him, without him having anyway to outplay without ult or summoners. The idea of being punished if someone gets within that range is a rather good and unique idea. But not being able to get someone out of it after a certain period of time lacks proper champion design. The argument that he shouldn't also be able to escape is a reasonable one so he can be damaged and trade, but the fact that he does no damage once you're in it, just doesn't work. Especially not when it's so easy to exploit for some champs.

ProfirixApr 6, 20162 votes

This. The fact that Riot allows ABSOLUTE weakness to exist on one champion is appalling. Absolute weakness means that a champion has no possible way to deal with their counter unless they use summoners or burn a long cooldown ultimate ability.

EDIT: Even if they were to double his potential damage, it is not good enough to compensate someone for an absolute weakness.

NonautologousApr 6, 20162 votes

Exactly my point, if you create a null zone on a champion where they are limited to either ult or flash, they should have a similar zone, imo the radius of the active passive should be extended to a range greater than a dash from someone like ekko, while still being lower than that of blinks like kat and talon.

on the other hand Asol shouldn't be like Annie or lux and have that consistent burst potential from damage alone, as his kit is more about positioning than flash+R.

QuephaApr 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Exactly my point, if you create a null zone on a champion where they are limited to either ult or flash

or auto attacks, exhaust/ghost, item actives, or depending on their team mates.

QuephaApr 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I actually think that his weakness is way to easy to exploit.

He has a solid winrate right now despite those gapclosing champions you're talking about being insanely popular. You're dramatically overexaggerating his weaknesses.

ProfirixApr 6, 20161 votes

He is barely seeing play as is. It is only natural that the counters don't realize just how effective they are against him. Ive seen Zeds, Talons, and Fizzes take no damage with the exception of his ultimate because they jumped right on top of him and stayed there. The Q will not hit a target that is on top of him and all the player has to do is sit underneath and do damage.

QuephaApr 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=AureIion Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgBEbxA8,comment-id=0003000100020000,timestamp=2016-04-06T21:12:55.652+0000)

He is barely seeing play as is. It is only natural that the counters don't realize just how effective they are against him. Ive seen Zeds, Talons, and Fizzes take no damage with the exception of his ultimate because they jumped right on top of him and stayed there. The Q will not hit a target that is on top of him and all the player has to do is sit underneath and do damage.

6.2% popularity is quite respectable during his 'exclusive' phase before he's been seen on a free week and 53% winrate is quite strong.

Riot has also said that all their data is showing that Aurelion Sol is held back more by the inexperience of his players than he is being favored by the inexperience of his opponents.

It's also just really funny that you're implying Zeds and Talons have not tried using their gapclosers against Aurelion Sol so they haven't figured out that their gapcloser works; Zeds and Talons will try using their gapclosers against a dbc'd Rammus if they've never seen it not work on him before. That's what they do, that's why they pick the champion. They KNOW that their gapcloser works against Aurelion Sol, the fact is that games are not that simple because there are also 4 other members on Aurelion Sol's team who want to make that prospect difficult and Aurelion Sol generally builds a little tankier than their favorite targets so they can't always kill him before his team does something about it.

ProfirixApr 6, 20161 votes

Except that its not just about using a gapcloser, its also about maintaining the proximity to the champion. Its not enough to simply chase them and auto them from behind, you have to actively move with the Aurelion as to stay in his blind spot. As per him being tanky, he builds health primarily then may branch off eventually to ZH or Abyssal, but it takes a bit for him to get tanky, even if hes just picking up a RoA, health alone is not enough to mitigate burst, though it may slow it down, in laning phase, it is not as likely that your jungler will be ready to assist you when the opponent does decide to go all-in.

Its not a cake-walk, but you can avoid 90% of the damage this way, and since they nerfed his stun duration and slow, he will have a harder time keeping them out of his safe space.

QuephaApr 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=AureIion Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgBEbxA8,comment-id=000300010002000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-06T23:33:26.638+0000)

its also about maintaining the proximity to the champion. Its not enough to simply chase them and auto them from behind, you have to actively move with the Aurelion as to stay in his blind spot.

Wow, yeah, the opponent trying to read your movements, judge where you're going to try to go, constantly re-evaluate whether the area you're moving into will be safe for him or he'll be better off staying close to you to avoid your passive and an eventual Q. It almost sounds like there's a GAME going on there where two players are both challenging themselves to try and come out ahead.

Or you could change it so Aurelion just mashes the Q button and the situation resets to neutral, making the assassin useless. That removes all strategy and thought in playing the champion but I think that's what you're going for when asking for this change.

ProfirixApr 7, 20161 votes

First off, I haven't asked for anything. I have merely stated that his weakness is an ABSOLUTE weakness and there is NO counterplay other than a flash or ultimate against champions who can gapclose without risking taking damage from a Q. Every single champion has weaknesses, but has at least something they can do to mitigate it, be it apply damage, escape with some mechanism, or tie up the opponent long enough to get away. There is a location within Aurelion's sphere of influence where he will not deal any damage (other than auto attacks, which for a mage is mostly meaningless) with a non-ultimate ability and cannot get himself out of that situation without the use of a summoner spell.

There should not ever be a situation where a champion can literally do nothing short of not engaging with the enemy at all to save themselves. That is what I am pointing out as the single greatest flaw any champion has ever had.

QuephaApr 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=AureIion Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgBEbxA8,comment-id=00030001000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T00:13:31.821+0000)

First off, I haven't asked for anything. I have merely stated that his weakness is an ABSOLUTE weakness and there is NO counterplay other than a flash or ultimate against champions who can gapclose without risking taking damage from a Q. Every single champion has weaknesses, but has at least something they can do to mitigate it, be it apply damage, escape with some mechanism, or tie up the opponent long enough to get away. There is a location within Aurelion's sphere of influence where he will not deal any damage (other than auto attacks, which for a mage is mostly meaningless) with a non-ultimate ability and cannot get himself out of that situation without the use of a summoner spell.

There should not ever be a situation where a champion can literally do nothing short of not engaging with the enemy at all to save themselves. That is what I am pointing out as the single greatest flaw any champion has ever had.

You mention Ult, auto attacks, and summoners, you admit there isn't LITERALLY nothing that Aurelion Sol can do, that's a completely reasonable amount of options for a situation like that and a lot of champions have to resort to those things when the enemy gets to the range they don't want them to be in..

Aurelion Sol also has his E passive, if he moves in a straight line he will quickly start to outpace any champion in the game.

ProfirixApr 7, 20161 votes

Aurelion Sol also has his E passive, if he moves in a straight line he will quickly start to outpace any champion in the game.

Unless you consider that you can't use his E if he takes any damage from a champion. His E does absolutely nothing if he is attacked. I really have to ask, have you ever played this champion before?

QuephaApr 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=AureIion Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgBEbxA8,comment-id=0003000100020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T00:39:47.488+0000)

Unless you consider that you can't use his E if he takes any damage from a champion. His E does absolutely nothing if he is attacked. I really have to ask, have you ever played this champion before?

Of course not, he hasn't been on free week yet. Doesn't change the fact that he still has to rely on summoners or ulti when someone gapcloses on him just like several other similar champions.

ProfirixApr 7, 20161 votes

I respect your opinions, but this is one of those champions that you really need to play before you start lambasting those who have played him.

QuephaApr 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=AureIion Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgBEbxA8,comment-id=000300010002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T01:09:20.093+0000)

I respect your opinions, but this is one of those champions that you really need to play before you start lambasting those who have played him.

I've played with him, I've played against him, I've seen statistics, and I've seen Riot's views based on the their own in-house statistics. Everything is pointing to Aurelion Sol being pretty balanced, if not slightly too strong and the argument that your champion shouldn't have any weaknesses is something that I think players should forget entirely and they only don't see it as a ludicrous argument currently due to some bad design decisions Riot has made in the past that they are finally trying to rectify.

ProfirixApr 7, 20161 votes

You miss the point of my argument. The point is not to change him so he has no weaknesses, the point is that his weaknesses are so negative that they come close to invalidating his role as a champion. I would be happy if they would shore up the literal gaping hole in his play style in such a way that a skilled Aurelion can at least survive against his counter in some small fraction of encounters. Should he be able to escape every time? No. But he shouldn't be resigned to dying every single time a Fizz, a Pantheon, a Zed, a Graves manages to get close enough to sock him in the face.

EDIT: And Riot is only acting preemptively to try to stay ahead of the curve (which is a prediction, one that is based only on minimal existing data of early play). I am just making a case that their nerfs may have hit him harder than intended because the learning curve is rather steep on both sides, and I just don't want to see another Illaoi. I've been waiting over 4 years for a dragon champion that I can enjoy playing and I will be damned if I sit by silently and have them nerf him based only on concern about future play. Where was this concern with all of the other champions that got released so overpowered that they were pick/banned until the next patch?

QuephaApr 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=AureIion Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgBEbxA8,comment-id=00030001000200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T02:40:06.623+0000)

You miss the point of my argument. The point is not to change him so he has no weaknesses, the point is that his weaknesses are so negative that they come close to invalidating his role as a champion. I would be happy if they would shore up the literal gaping hole in his play style in such a way that a skilled Aurelion can at least survive against his counter in some small fraction of encounters. Should he be able to escape every time? No. But he shouldn't be resigned to dying every single time a Fizz, a Pantheon, a Zed, a Graves manages to get close enough to sock him in the face.

EDIT: And Riot is only acting preemptively to try to stay ahead of the curve (which is a prediction, one that is based only on minimal existing data of early play). I am just making a case that their nerfs may have hit him harder than intended because the learning curve is rather steep on both sides, and I just don't want to see another Illaoi. I've been waiting over 4 years for a dragon champion that I can enjoy playing and I will be damned if I sit by silently and have them nerf him based only on concern about future play. Where was this concern with all of the other champions that got released so overpowered that they were pick/banned until the next patch?

Currently 47% winrate against Talon and Zed, that seems fine.

the Anarchit3chtApr 7, 20161 votes

His passive movespeed from moving in a straight line isn't affected by damage is it? I think that's what they expect to you use, but when someone has burst potential like a Zed it wont ramp up in time.

ProfirixApr 7, 20161 votes

Yes, any champion damage completely resets his E.

NahuiApr 5, 20161 votes

You mean lower it or..?

StrawberrycocoaApr 7, 20161 votes

Absolutely not, because it gives him his primary weakness: if you sit right on top of him and stick there, only his Ultimate has the power to peel you off. He's defenseless at melee range, and I guarantee you that's an intentional design choice.