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Fiora rework = Grand duelist can't 1v1 most champs.

SegamanGenesis··10 votes·2,063 views

Riot. Just take Fiora back. I don't want her anymore... I dont want anything from you, just take her out of the champs I own... I don't want that shit anymore. Many will say "fiora's last ult was stupid" and bitch and whine how she didnt require skill... well she did... and ok, fine the ult was strong, that doesnt mean make the champ absolute garbage... she can barely 1v1 most champs now... its pretty sad and pathetic. her new ult is so underwhelming its practically useless in lane... Getting ganked by enemy jungler? Well your ult won't provide any means of turning the tides of the fight... even in a 1v1 the ult is extremely overly difficult to accomplish, you pretty much need flash to get all 4 vitals... all in all useless. I don't want Fiora anymore... please Riot, just take her out of my champions owned, if you want to refund me, awesome, but i doubt you will... CHANGE HER ULT AT THE VERY LEAST ITS THE WORST ULT IN THE DAMN GAME. gg surrender at 20.

Also, wtf is up with her, in game her walk/movement looks ridiculous and stupid, like she has a stick up her ass... you guys have done such a shit job with this rework im ready to go troll a shit ton of games out of spite... I'm even debating quitting league all together, its pretty clear you guys dont have the integrity I had/was hoping you had... its just updates and reworks for the sake of keeping your game and champs relevant... kind of like how Fox makes lousy Fantastic Four movies no matter how many reboots (reworks). Thanks Riot... losing faith in you hardcore.

17 Comments

67chrome5 votes

Fiora rework = Grand duelist can't 1v1 most champs.

Fiora can 1v1.

She's just an entirely different champion, so you need to practice with her to do much of anything (her new kit obviously isn't easy to pull off).

You also need to build her differently. No more item 3074 item 3035 item 3071 , Fiora isn't a glass-cannon anymore. She's not an assassin. No more untargetability, no more AoE Hydra ult, no more AA steroids.

Compare Fiora to Irelia . Dash that applies item 3057 ? Check. True-damage auto-attacks that restore HP? Check. Turnaround skill that can stun? Check. Wonky ultimate that heals when used well against champions? Check. Tons of free damage? Check.

New Fiora is essentially Irelia 2.0. item 3153 item 3078 item 3143 item 3068 looks like they're her new core items. Fiora's AD scaling now is just like the AD scaling on Darius or AP scaling on Leona . Just because it's there doesn't mean you want to go ham on it. Fiora's never-crit, always-crit double-hit works really well with Sheen (and makes crit itemization pretty useless), and her true damage insures she's always going to be a threat regardless of how little damage she builds (while also making armor pen pretty lackluster on her).

Honestly this pisses me off, her omnislash ultimate was amazing and I'm more into retro-esque champions that make me feel like I'm playing Packman over Simon says where the difficulty is in positioning and foresight over route memory and fighting with the controls.

Also this completely changes Fiora's play style from an opportunistic assassin to a tanky derp.

But she can certainly 1v1 most champions. That much, at least, hasn't changed.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

Fiora can 1v1.

She's just an entirely different champion, so you need to practice with her to do much of anything (her new kit obviously isn't easy to pull off).

You also need to build her differently. No more item 3074 item 3035 item 3071 , Fiora isn't a glass-cannon anymore. She's not an assassin. No more untargetability, no more AoE Hydra ult, no more AA steroids.

Compare Fiora to Irelia . Dash that applies item 3057 ? Check. True-damage auto-attacks that restore HP? Check. Turnaround skill that can stun? Check. Wonky ultimate that heals when used well against champions? Check. Tons of free damage? Check.

New Fiora is essentially Irelia 2.0. item 3153 item 3078 item 3143 item 3068 looks like they're her new core items. Fiora's AD scaling now is just like the AD scaling on Darius or AP scaling on Leona . Just because it's there doesn't mean you want to go ham on it. Fiora's never-crit, always-crit double-hit works really well with Sheen (and makes crit itemization pretty useless), and her true damage insures she's always going to be a threat regardless of how little damage she builds (while also making armor pen pretty lackluster on her).

Honestly this pisses me off, her omnislash ultimate was amazing and I'm more into retro-esque champions that make me feel like I'm playing Packman over Simon says where the difficulty is in positioning and foresight over route memory and fighting with the controls.

Also this completely changes Fiora's play style from an opportunistic assassin to a tanky derp.

But she can certainly 1v1 most champions. That much, at least, hasn't changed.

Yet, Fiora entirely scales with AD where Irelia scales with attack speed. Her passive recharging also does not depend on attack speed. AKA her steroids for an AA build are inexistant.

67chrome1 votes

Yet, Fiora entirely scales with AD where Irelia scales with attack speed.

Irelia scales with AS because it allows her to apply true damage more frequently. Fiora's true damage forcing her to dance circles around opponents also heavily benefits from attacking more frequently. So does moving faster: which %AS items also offer.

Also - Fiora's ultimate and passive specifically require her to AA and for all intents and purposes are AA steroids that benefit auto-attacking an enemy.

Beyond that - a meta-golem build is something you do on a fighter like Shyvana Nasus Irelia that deals meaningful damage by sticking around long enough. Heavy AD is more something you build on someone like Zed Khazix Talon that does a ton of damage in a short period of time.

With the way Fiora's passive and ultimate work? She just isn't going to kill things super-fast anymore. Her leap's range is to short, her burst just isn't impressive enough, she needs to repeatedly activate her passive to do much damage regardless of the scenario: and lasting long enough to do so heavily favors building tanky and building offensive items that deal some pretty consistent damage within a tanky build.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

Irelia scales with AS because it allows her to apply true damage more frequently. Fiora's true damage forcing her to dance circles around opponents also heavily benefits from attacking more frequently. So does moving faster: which %AS items also offer.

I fail to see how more attack speed increases her mobility. Though trinity and botrk do offer some mobility, I'll agree on that. But about the attack speed, yes attack speed increases her autoattack windup, I believe, but it also forces you to autoattack more often if you want to deal max auto damage, which slows you down, kinda.

HumanPerfect3 votes

Honestly, her old ult wasn't very bad.

One, it was very visually satisfying. Who doesn't like a good Omnislash? A lot more exciting than seeing a circle around your enemy. Secondly, the claim that it "had no counterplay" is ridiculous. Zhonyas, proper positioning and bushes, spreading the damage over multiple teammates, armor... Not to mention all the skills in the game that make you untargetable/invulnerable (troll poll, alpha strike, Vlad's pool, Jax's E, Liss ult, Kayle ult, Tryn ult, Bard ult, etc) or stealth'd (Vayne ult, Akali's shroud, etc). Seriously, she's the GRAND DUELIST. That might tell you that you want to position properly and not try to 1v1 her if you are both even mid/lategame.

Now can her ult deal a crapton of damage even when your team is grouped up if she's incredibly ahead? ABSOLUTELY. But it is an ULTIMATE ABILITY. If she gets fed then she should be rewarded. The ult MIGHT have been a little strong (though there's probably a reason why she was rarely seen at higher elos).

Her ult was far beyond unsalvageable. Let's look at the last change to Blade Waltz:

V4.20:

Blade Waltz Base damage reduced to 125 / 255 / 385 from 160 / 330 / 500. Bonus attack damage ratio reduced to (+90% bonus AD) from (+120% bonus AD). Damage on consecutive hits increased to 40% from 25%.

This was definitely a step in the right direction. If they really wanted to take it a step further then all they had to do was reduce the base damage further and increase the damage on consecutive hit so that it emphasized her role as a 1v1 / 1v2 duelist/skirmisher.

I mean, Tryndamere, Jax, Master Yi, Udyr are allowed to have their strengths placed in strong dueling and mediocre team fights, why shouldn't the GRAND DUELIST? Full build Fiora used to be able to give full build Tryndamere and Jax a run for their money as top-dog melee duelist through proper timing of her skills, but now it's a no-contest. When 1v1s can last less than 2 seconds and teamfights less than 5, Fiora doesn't have time to AA, pause, move around behind the enemy, pause, AA, move to the front of the enemy, pause, AA, move to the left of the enemy, pause, AA, etc all the while getting her head bashed in by a sword larger than her entire body by a full-rage Tryndamere or getting CC'd and blown to pieces by the rest of the enemy team.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

tbh a lot of people complain about those champ's invulnerability when they are good and sometimes even when they are not, i think the only invulnerability ive never seen complained about is vlad's cause it costs 20% of his hp

Narasimha1 votes

Just to jump in, the main problem with her old ult was how unthematic it was. As you noted, she is the Grand DUELIST. She's supposed to be refined, precise, a targeted weapon of destruction. And her ult had her jumping all over the place like a bunny on drugs?

I'm not saying the new ult is amazing, it needs some work (personally, I think it needs a damage boost and ignore unit collision on the target) , but the old one was not an ult for Fiora.

LankPants2 votes

The ult certainly needs some work.

I've just been slapping it on people who are going to die anyway and landing a Q for the heal, because the rest of the ult just feels worthless.

dEAdbUs2 votes

My diamond brother said that she's unstoppable 1v1 and OP. You must try better.

XLC1 votes

Cuz diamonds are ALWAYS right at the game...

To be honest, tho, I really think most people just aren't used to her. It's like bard. Bard is and was OP, people just didn't know how to play him.

dEAdbUs1 votes

I tried new GP and was confused, GP was looking weak for me. But brother showed me some cool tricks, how new GP can be dangerous and how powerful he is now, so I understood that I was wrong.

I played against new Fiora couple times, she was strong.

OxBaker1 votes

Yeah she's a bit on the weak side but that can be fixed with numbers tweaks. They just need to make her a little more intrinsically tanky (I think). But I like her new kit.

Ser Garland1 votes

New Fiora can one v one almost any champ. Still incredibly vulnerable to ganks though.

Lugg1 votes

Most of the Fiora players I have seen are carrying just fine. I think it's just that some Fiora players are mad because winning with her now requires skill and they can't just faceroll to win anymore.

Gigahappytown1 votes

>old fiora >skill MY SIDES HER SKILLFLOOR AND SKILLCAP WAS LOWER THAN YI

Beoridas1 votes

she plays differently and is built differently. ive seen a guy rekt EVERYONE in the top lane and 100-0 irelia and still full health. it was insane the stuff she could do.

SegamanGenesis1 votes

Her ult is crap. I don't care what anyone says, its a stupid and underwhelming ultimate. I don't care for her passive, half the time im lunging through the target and it wont proc the vital point... its a stupid gimmick and her ult is centered around it... i don't care for it, it has nothing to do with not "Steam rollling" - i don't like it because it feels useless to "a grand duelist" - it needs a serious change or a buff -- proc a heal upon striking the vitals so she can sustain better - late game teamfights she feels absolutely worhtless with the ult, I don't want an ult that depends on my team, I want an ult I can go into solo Q with and feel like I can trade and win - as it stands this ult doesnt do shit for me in lane = especially if I'm getting ganked. It doesnt feel like an ult should = which is turning the tide - not an insta win, but something that makes me deliver some damage that can deter my enemies from following through with the gank... like any other champion in this game has. Worst ult ever. Period.

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