Supports once again have an experience disadvantage. - Wall of Text - TLDR at bottom.

BillybillyBones··23 votes·2,212 views

Welcome to preseason six where Riot has thrown out all the old masteries, and ushered in a new wave of balancing nightmares. Keystone masteries are the major offenders right now, but I feel like the changes to cunning/utility tree has been passed over in a surprising manner. With mastery tree changes Supports have lost an important source of continual experience. Inspiration one of the most core masteries of season 5 utility/cunning tree did not find itself readmitted into the preseason six.

       Whilst following along with preseasons big mastery overhaul, prerelease I noticed this omission. I was worried about the potential impact then, and would wait to see what Riot had planned for Supports.  What was planned would be mana regen, and gold income changes on support items that for the most part match the accelerated flow of the game, which would lead to Supports at least not falling egregiously behind in gold compared to their fellow teammates. Gold income outside of farming cs is core to Supports, however nothing had been done to make up for experience loss from masteries. 

      Now having gotten my hands on preseason gameplay I can say with certainty that Supports have gotten the short end of the stick this preseason.  In my experience supports receive much less experience than their fellow teammates thanks to gameplay, and Meta mechanics limiting their experience gains. Supports will always try to funnel as much gold, and experience onto their adc partner at a competent level of play. 

     As games progress in time there is an increasing disparity in a Supports level in comparison to their adc, and other teammates. A support is supposed to fulfill multiple tasks in game to help their team win at a competitive level. From warding the map, removing enemy wards, roaming, babysitting, making sick engages, frustrating disengages, and in general just being an asset to their team they have a hefty role to fulfill. A Support in preseason 6 is now punished for performing all but one of these tasks. The only way you get reliable levels now as Support, is if you sit in lane leeching experience from wherever your adc goes to farm.  This means that while you go to ward the map, or roam you are actively losing potential experience for not sitting in lane. As someone who has been a Support main since season four I can tell you this just feels awful. Experience gains for Support only get further decreased as the game progresses, because grouping towards mid to late reduce minion experience gains significantly. 

      It is now the norm for the Support to be experience starved. All too often I see Supports with a level disparity of two, or three levels below their team if not more depending on how well their game is going. All of this because one mastery has been omitted this preseason, Inspiration was a huge boon for Supports. Inspiration enabled Supports to fulfill tasks many players take for granted without incurring a huge experience deficiency. Levels are extremely important to every character in the game, watching one role fall so far behind in comparison to the others should be the cause of ringing alarm klaxons.  We’ve got Supports with reduced survivability due to level deficiency in a preseason landscape where ad Assassins are about to get a new toy to kill them with. If things don’t change soon I predict there will be a mid-lane Assassin Meta specifically targeting weak supports in order to snowball the game, and kill everyone else.  We’ve lived through a similar Meta like this before, which was curbed by significant support buffs that came in season five. I’m not sure it’d be healthy for this games state for such a Meta to reoccur, if anything it’d be a regression of every support change riot has enacted in the past. 

       Overall I can say that change is good, it ushers in new concepts into the game that keeps things fresh, but it should not be a massive oversight to the overall health of the game. Supports experience gains something easily overlooked, is going to matter more than ever as the Meta evolves. The simplest way to curb this issue would be returning Inspiration to the cunning tree, perhaps as a tier 5 mastery in between intelligence, and precision. Give it a new paintjob tweak the stats so it falls in line with other masteries, and we’ll have supports experience woes sorted. This shouldn’t be that much of an issue considering the “Assassin” mastery they added earlier made it in with such ease. Cunning can just be a bloated tree if it’s catering to so many different roles, and I see no reason why Supports should be ignored in a tree that has been theirs for so long now. 

     TLDR: Supports have fallen behind in experience gains due to the removal of Inspiration mastery this preseason. Leading to Supports incurring an experience deficiency doing tasks like roaming, warding, and eventually grouping instead of babysitting their farming adc to leach experience at all times. Being three levels behind everyone else feels terrible when you are actively punished for trying to perform your role as Support. I predict that with Supports being so weak due to not having survivability stats from levels, a Meta will evolve to snowball the game off them with midlane Assassins, or just about every other role really.  To fix this I propose Riot reintroduce Inspiration mastery into the cunning tree smack dab in the middle of Intelligence, and precision as a Tier 5 mastery with retuning as befits its position on the tree.  Hear your supports pleas give us our experience back!

I’m interested to see what everyone else has to say on the matter, I’m rather worried if I’m the only one perturbed about support changes this preseason.

32 Comments

Remlap12239 votes

This is nothing new. Supports have historically been a nightmare to gain experience for, since they can't farm, and they have to leech XP from other lanes. They need something to give them passive experience, because not being able to hit level nine when my carry is almost level eleven is pretty goddamn stupid. I shouldn't have to rely on sitting in lane when my carry isn't there to farm to make up for the XP deficit.

Redaga1 votes

{quoted} They need something to give them passive experience

the only way to have an Item that gives passive Experience without being broken (AKA everyone else will use it too) will be under conditions

  • Champ must be close to an ally champion other wise solo lanes will buff as fuck
  • the passive must de-activate under X or Y circumstance, like item 3303 / item 3098 , so getting a Kill or killing minions.

Other option would be an item that buffs the XP received when an ally kill an minion unit. but cap it at lvl 6 or 9.

Sightless665 votes

I'm not sure I agree. Inspiration was one of the least-picked masteries in the game, and was typically ignored while people took masteries lower in the utility tree. I don't think that removing a mastery almost no one took really affected the experience flow for supports in any meaningful way. I haven't noticed anything different with my experience gains as a support.

On that same thread, I don't think reintroducing inspiration would do anything. If it was competing with intelligence and precision, I can't see any situation where it would be the superior pick. I guess I'm not exactly opposed to it because reintroducing a weak mastery is not going to affect balance at all, but it seems like it would be a bit of a trap.

delonix2 votes

Yeah, I wouldn't call Inspiration a "core mastery." Pre-June it was so bad that Riot literally doubled the effect and still people didn't take it. I think the changes to the mana masteries made Inspiration more attractive, but it still wasn't good.

I also agree with you that Inspiration can't compete against Intelligence and Precision.

Arny Palmy3 votes

I think an issue though is that previous masterly was in a tree that only supports would go down; now, where would they put it that wouldn't allow other champs to take it to have an experience edge?

Steelflame5 votes

The nature of the mastery was xp per second if around higher level allies. This means it is worthless in a solo lane, and worthless if you are infact that highest leveled ally. About the only other champ who could grab it would be the ADC or jungler, if behind by a decent margin. It wasn't that good a mastery, and a lot of people didn't take it, but for some supports, it was critical for xp gen.

And yes, if the support gets behind (because they are focused in lane, for instance) they have the worst time getting levels to catch up in the current meta. They are generally not allowed to go get solo farm, one of the most important sources of xp, and have to depend on ambient generation from assist/kills in fights or sitting with an ADC as they farm.

I've personally, when support, just taken to finding myself some time and killing a jungle camp or two if I know the ally jungler won't be there anytime soon (Gromp kills are worth like 100 gold by midgame. Great source of gold, and a little xp, as a support). Honestly though if you don't have a Zilean sitting around, supports have a very hard time getting levels (But Zilean loves having an underleveled support around, he just gets to spam his passive on them every 2 minutes for an almost guaranteed proc to boost his own xp lead.)

elon wątroba1 votes

If you would put it as 5th tier cunning mastery, with same restriction as season 5th mastery no one would use it:D

AATTRROOXX2 votes

It should be a tier 4 in cunning due to tanky supports taking bond of stone instead.

Remlap12234 votes

Tank supports don't have the problem with experience, since they can sit in lane after their carry leaves and freeze it safely. Most of the time the squishy supports either get bullied out of lane or just flat out killed.

Assassin should be moved to ferocity, and a flat XP gain mastery should take its place in cunning.

AATTRROOXX1 votes

The arguments YOU created apply to all supports , not squishies; sitting in lane w/out a carry as a tank support is a death sentence (not Thresh's though).

As a side note, assassins don't go ferocity main tree. They go cunning, so it makes minimal sense to put it in ferocity.

Remlap12232 votes

Ok let me explain this to you since you seem to be completely missing the point.

**ALL **supports have XP troubles. In order to level up, they need to farm the lane. Tanks can naturally survive on their own and can somewhat safely freeze a lane. Mages, cannot. So while all supports have this same problem, the healers and poke mage supports have it much much worse, since most of the time they won't be guaranteed to be at a high enough health to safely freeze the lane, let alone actually survive a hard engage.

Also, **BULLSHIT **that Thresh is the only support that can sit in lane and freeze after the carry buys items. Literally any support that builds any kind of defense whatsoever can do this. Leona, Braum, Tahm, even Lulu, they all can sit in lane after the carry leaves to get some XP. Sona, Soraka, Karma, cannot, unless they want a gank jungler to get some free kills bot lane.

And the only reason assassins go cunning anyways is because the mixed penetration is much more powerful than the percent ignore. Once that gets nerfed, and if assassin was theoretically in ferocity, they'd have a reason to put a keystone in ferocity instead of cunning with Thunderlord's.

Ratbert1 votes

He's trying to use wordplay in reference to thresh q. I think

The Governer1 votes

You missed the joke completely.

Remlap12231 votes

Goddamnit.

That pun rocket jumped over my head.

AATTRROOXX1 votes

[slayer-jinx-wink]

alfavhunter2 votes

Simple solution

Add this passive exp gain to be a passive on gold income items or sight stone or both but it's not stackable

Remlap12235 votes

Put it on the support items.

item 3301 : Gain 2 bonus XP when an ally succesfullly last hits an enemy. item 3302 : Gain 100% experience on executed minions (XP is still shared, but the bonus doesn't transfer to ally). item 3303 : Gain 10 bonus XP per charge of spelltheif's edge. XP gain is also disabled if minions are last hit.

drbob20121 votes

All three of these would put the support ahead of their ADC in levels, which is the opposite of the mastery that OP is talking about, which allowed a support to catch up when behind.

Remlap12233 votes

That's the whole point. ADCs are always able to hit level 2 before their support. Supports cannot ever keep up with their carries unless they are by themselves in lane. This gives them a boost so they don't have to completely leech off their allies' XP to levle up.

ThePartyLeader1 votes

I just take a kill when I'm a couple levels behind and we are winning. The xp from killing someone 2 levels ahead of you is quite large enough to catch you up.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

I just take a kill when I'm a couple levels behind and we are winning. The xp from killing someone 2 levels ahead of you is quite large enough to catch you up.

The problem is when your team rages and threathen to troll/go AFK because you "stole a kill" - which doesn't usually happen at higher elos but usually happen at bronze and low silver.

ThePartyLeader5 votes

{quoted}

The problem is when your team rages and threathen to troll/go AFK because you "stole a kill" - which doesn't usually happen at higher elos but usually happen at bronze and low silver.

Ragers going to rage. They can yell at me but normally if I'm playing fine my team knows I'm worth the resources. Sure if you are 0/8/3 or something you probably shouldn't take the gold, or if you carry is behind. My goal in laning phase is to feed my adc so hard they complement me multiple times. At that point your team will do as you ask.

UtilityPunk3 votes

Yep. A good team doesn't rage over the little stuff.

WookieJesuz1 votes

There is something to be said for keeping the new keystone mastery system simple, not crowding it with old masteries.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

While I too have noticed a big experience difference, I don't think it's from the removal of that mastery because no one took that mastery when it was around anyway.

qetzel1 votes

I seem to recall being two levels behind as a support before the preseason. Perhaps I am just bad...

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Maybe they should add a passive experience gain on sightstone? You think that would help? Only triggers when lane minions die and you didn't kill them, so solo lanes and jungle can't abuse it.

alfavhunter1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe they should add a passive experience gain on sightstone? You think that would help? Only triggers when lane minions die and you didn't kill them, so solo lanes and jungle can't abuse it.

Sights tone passive

When you are near an enemy ward when it dies you gain 10Xlvl experience

Gold income items would have this

When near an ally that is a higher lvl than you you gain increased experience by 20% per level difference while you remain near them

Make both unique effects so you can't stack sight stones and then it gives them good exp for ward hunting even off the ally takes the kill on the ward and it gives more exp when in lane due to the bonus exp if they are a higher lvl than you

Ackelope1 votes

I don't think I ever used Inspiration. Granted, I don't exactly play the most frequently, but I don't think it's the most essential of masteries.

A Liberal1 votes

There should be a mastery that grants a small amount of experience per second/flat amount on placement for each stealth ward on the map. Yay now supports can not be 5 levels behind everyone.

Canidae1 votes

ppl used the inspiration mastery?

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