Boards›Gameplay

Aram bans has made things worse

Ìncredible Sulk··10 votes·2,067 views

My biggest problems are increased dodge rates and no longer getting to play certain champions.

In aram, there are champions that are really good, and then there are those that are just terrible. The ban feature has just made it so people don't roll those good champions anymore which is causing people to dodge the queue way more often than before. Where is the fun when all the good champions are banned and all you are left with are the crappy ones.

When we played aram back in the day in the custom game mode the goal was to get stuck with a randomly generated team and try and learn the champion you get stuck with and make the team work. The only time people would dodge back then was if they got stuck with a terrible champion and they wanted a chance to get something that is at least slightly better, it kind of ruins the purpose of the gameplay but there wasn't a lot you could do about it. Adding the reroll feature helped the dodging problem and also made balancing your team a little bit easier. It's still pretty close to the same game as we made back then, just with enforced rules.

With this ban feature, you are changing the original gameplay rules by modifying the champion pool so you never get to play those good champions anymore. It is throwing off the balance. With only a few good champions to pick from now, if one team rolls them then that team has the advantage and the odds of rolling a second good champion is so low that it most likely won't happen. Previously there were enough good champions that even if one team rolled them there were enough for both teams to roll great champions, and sometimes you would still have to reroll those good champions for a better chance at a balanced team.

I no longer get to play teemo, lux, veigar, and ziggs for the most part since they are practically always banned. Then there are also the 6 other champions that get banned which usually are ones like Xarath, Varus, Jayce, Brand, Pyke, Illoai, Zilean, fiddlesticks and maybe 1 or 2 might be the less popular ones.

aram is ALL RANDOM all middle, (middle is no longer applicable since we aren't playing in summoners rift anymore), It's supposed to be 1 random champion picked from all of your available champions.

35 Comments

The Ecdysiast5 votes

You've completely missed the most important reason your argument doesn't work.

The only reason the dodge rate wasn't this high before is that you can't see when the enemy does have one of those broken champions.

So you can't really say this has made things worse. It's just now people might leave because they're poor sports who only wanted to play if they got an unfair advantage. Which is a good thing.

The Ecdysiast4 votes

I see the downvotes, but no one's even attempted to argue. Maybe stop acting like the mode is only fun when you get a broken champ for it.

Chanchu4 votes

As someone who plays ARAM more than SR, I totally understand you. Though I liked some of the previous changes they made (heal relic, selection of champs your teammates rerolled), bans in ARAM was completely unnecessary and ruined the game mode for me. Getting an OP champ sometimes or having to deal with one on the enemy team and still try to win is what makes the game mode fun for me. Getting busted champs is what creates fiestas, which is what this mode is known and loved for.

With the bans, up to 10 champions get taken out, which takes the ‘random’ away. For real, they can rename it to “AM: all mid”. Now I’m on a useless melee champ or a support 90% of the time. Needless to say, since many people, Including myself, don’t enjoy ARAM that much anymore, there’s more cases of people not trying to win or going afk.

I hope this is a temporary thing and they will revert it after the event. If bans is something they want to keep, I’d say they give one ban to each team so it’s like one for all where the champ with the most votes is chosen (to be banned). Not entirely enjoyable but less tilting than one ban per player.

The Ecdysiast11 votes

{quoted}

As someone who plays ARAM more than SR, I totally understand you. Though I liked some of the previous changes they made (heal relic, selection of champs your teammates rerolled), bans in ARAM was completely unnecessary and ruined the game mode for me. Getting an OP champ sometimes or having to deal with one on the enemy team and still try to win is what makes the game mode fun for me. Getting busted champs is what creates fiestas, which is what this mode is known and loved for.

With the bans, up to 10 champions get taken out, which takes the ‘random’ away. For real, they can rename it to “AM: all mid”. Now I’m on a useless melee champ or a support 90% of the time. Needless to say, since many people, Including myself, don’t enjoy ARAM that much anymore, there’s more cases of people not trying to win or going afk.

I hope this is a temporary thing and they will revert it after the event. If bans is something they want to keep, I’d say they give one ban to each team so it’s like one for all where the champ with the most votes is chosen (to be banned). Not entirely enjoyable but less tilting than one ban per player.

"takes the random away"

Uh, no, it doesn't. Not unless you have an ARAM-only account where you've specifically lowered the chances of getting a more fair champion by only buying the best ones for the mode. Which is exactly the bullshit they're trying to subdue with the bans.

Ìncredible Sulk2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NEmHlNNk,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-11T11:25:51.339+0000)

"takes the random away"

Uh, no, it doesn't. Not unless you have an ARAM-only account where you've specifically lowered the chances of getting a more fair champion by only buying the best ones for the mode. Which is exactly the bullshit they're trying to subdue with the bans.

It most definitely takes the random out of it. It's like playing the lottery but now you ban the jackpot and all you can win is just enough to cover the cost of buying the ticket.

You are removing champions from the pool, you are no longer rolling those random champions.

You completely missed the important reason why your argument doesn't work. Either way, you can't see when their team gets a "broken" champion. And the champions aren't "broken". There are always teams that can destroy those champions. Like when you get an all tank team against one with lux, ziggs, and xerath. Tank team destroys them late game. I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience with aram so you should probably stick to the summoner's rift discussions.

And bans or no bans people will leave because they are poor sports, they just leave more often now because of the champions they roll because of the bans.

Crazier clone x3 votes

Got it. Make all champions available. So 10 champions are not much in comparison to 143 champions.

The Ecdysiast4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riven Waifu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NEmHlNNk,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T11:53:14.457+0000)

Got it. Make all champions available. So 10 champions are not much in comparison to 143 champions.

"Give me all the champions for free because I don't like that you're stopping me from making my whole account unfair for the mode."

Perfectly reasonable request.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riven Waifu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NEmHlNNk,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T11:53:14.457+0000)

Got it. Make all champions available. So 10 champions are not much in comparison to 143 champions.

Better yet, lock the mode until you own at least 70 champions. Then it'll be fair.

Ìncredible Sulk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NEmHlNNk,comment-id=00020000000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-11T11:56:42.805+0000)

Better yet, lock the mode until you own at least 70 champions. Then it'll be fair.

That works too, as long as all available champions are in the pool.

Ìncredible Sulk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riven Waifu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NEmHlNNk,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T11:53:14.457+0000)

Got it. Make all champions available. So 10 champions are not much in comparison to 143 champions.

taking 1 champion out for every 14 does make a difference since you have to split them up into ADC AP SUP and TANK. now take out almost all of the mages. now you are taking out like 1 in 4 champions since most banned champions are AP.

The Ecdysiast5 votes

[{quoted}](name=d ARAM b,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NEmHlNNk,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T11:48:40.391+0000)

It most definitely takes the random out of it. It's like playing the lottery but now you ban the jackpot and all you can win is just enough to cover the cost of buying the ticket.

You are removing champions from the pool, you are no longer rolling those random champions.

You completely missed the important reason why your argument doesn't work. Either way, you can't see when their team gets a "broken" champion. And the champions aren't "broken". There are always teams that can destroy those champions. Like when you get an all tank team against one with lux, ziggs, and xerath. Tank team destroys them late game. I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience with aram so you should probably stick to the summoner's rift discussions.

And bans or no bans people will leave because they are poor sports, they just leave more often now because of the champions they roll because of the bans.

That doesn't mean it isn't random, dude. There are still 133 other champions to get. You're just crying that ten of the ones you like to play because they're busted in ARAM aren't options.

Saezio6 votes

I have played 8k arams. And I agree, remove bans but make all champions available to everyone. If they don't unlock all champs for everyone, we need bans. I play almost exclusively vs ARAM accounts which is bullshit. And you say it like the ARAM accounts don't own shit like maokai. I don't mind playing vs lux and ziggs, I mind playing vs PERFECT teamcomps each game.

Perfect teamcomp means they have 1-2 artilery mages 1-2 adc 1 tank 1-2 supports.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

I have played 8k arams. And I agree, remove bans but make all champions available to everyone. If they don't unlock all champs for everyone, we need bans. I play almost exclusively vs ARAM accounts which is bullshit. And you say it like the ARAM accounts don't own shit like maokai. I don't mind playing vs lux and ziggs, I mind playing vs PERFECT teamcomps each game.

Perfect teamcomp means they have 1-2 artilery mages 1-2 adc 1 tank 1-2 supports.

Exactly why we need bans. Maybe if every champion cost nothing and were available for everyone all the time, it'd be fine. But since that's not the case, they can't just give everyone every champion for free in aram.

Saezio3 votes

why exactly? you mean people would play more aram? You still could not earn mastery/chests if you don't own the champ, and it's still random + the more champions the more rerolls you get.

Why can't all champions be unlocked in ARAM? What would it affect?

The Ecdysiast2 votes

{quoted}

why exactly? you mean people would play more aram? You still could not earn mastery/chests if you don't own the champ, and it's still random + the more champions the more rerolls you get.

Why can't all champions be unlocked in ARAM? What would it affect?

I'm not talking about it from a gameplay perspective. From the perspective of the players, opening the pool to every champion is actually the best option.

I'm saying that as a company, it'd be a massively stupid decision to give out paid content for free use in a permanent game mode. The only remotely similar thing they've done is allow a small group of champions in rotating modes, and even then it was strictly limited to those champions.

So it is just not an option at all. It cannot be in the discussion, because it will never be a viable solution. On the other side, the more reasonable version of that same concept for them as a company is if the mode was locked until you've purchased every champion. But that also doesn't work, because then no one would play ARAM.

Saezio2 votes

Well, I don't agree with what you are saying at all, because

A) you can't pick the champion, so what if there is a chance to roll it? What changes for the company? I totally lost you there. B) It could even tempt people to buy the champ they rolled in ARAM if they enjoyed it.

The only solution other than enabling all champs for everyone would be to allow EVERYONE to limit their champion pool to what they feel like. It's just a straight up disadvantage to own some champions, and even if its a "for fun" mode, none likes to be treated worse for being loyal to Riot and owning all champions.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Well, I don't agree with what you are saying at all, because

A) you can't pick the champion, so what if there is a chance to roll it? What changes for the company? I totally lost you there. B) It could even tempt people to buy the champ they rolled in ARAM if they enjoyed it.

The only solution other than enabling all champs for everyone would be to allow EVERYONE to limit their champion pool to what they feel like. It's just a straight up disadvantage to own some champions, and even if its a "for fun" mode, none likes to be treated worse for being loyal to Riot and owning all champions.

A) I'm not going to write an essay explaining economics to you. You either understand why they aren't just going to give you free shit, or you're in denial.

B) It's the people who play only ARAM who would benefit from this, so no, it wouldn't tempt them to buy the champion because it would be in their available pool anyway. They wouldn't need to buy the champion.

Saezio1 votes

B)Why would only aram accounts benefit? Let's say you are a new player playing primarily SR with the odd ARAM here and there (the case for many people) if you play champs you don't own it's likely to be tempted to buy the champion if you enjoyed it in ARAM.

So, your point for not unlocking all champions is because that would mean ARAM players would not spend money on champions thus landing Riot a blow in their income. Hence you are saying that aram only players spend enough money on champions. I can respect that, but it is my belief not many people who only play aram spend RP on champs.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

B)Why would only aram accounts benefit? Let's say you are a new player playing primarily SR with the odd ARAM here and there (the case for many people) if you play champs you don't own it's likely to be tempted to buy the champion if you enjoyed it in ARAM.

So, your point for not unlocking all champions is because that would mean ARAM players would not spend money on champions thus landing Riot a blow in their income. Hence you are saying that aram only players spend enough money on champions. I can respect that, but it is my belief not many people who only play aram spend RP on champs.

That's what the shop does, my guy. You can see abilities in the shop.

And that's my point. People who play only ARAM already don't buy many champs. But then giving them access to every champion instead wouldn't make sense. "Hey, you abuse the system by not buying any champions, so here, have all of them for free."

Saezio2 votes

You only give them access to the champions in the mode they abuse by not buying them.

You make them unable to earn Mastery points on all those champions.

OR simply, allow us all to limit our pool to what we want. It's an unfair advantage, and it's just no fun at all. I do own all champions, I don't mind playing any of the champions, but once you are above a certain ARAM MMR it means you play vs too many of those accounts that some champions are rendered useless.

P.S. what percentage of aram only players do you suppose have spent RP on champs? Just a wondering, because you seem to think Riot would lose money by those exact accounts not spending RP on the champs.

The Ecdysiast3 votes

{quoted}

You only give them access to the champions in the mode they abuse by not buying them.

You make them unable to earn Mastery points on all those champions.

OR simply, allow us all to limit our pool to what we want. It's an unfair advantage, and it's just no fun at all. I do own all champions, I don't mind playing any of the champions, but once you are above a certain ARAM MMR it means you play vs too many of those accounts that some champions are rendered useless.

P.S. what percentage of aram only players do you suppose have spent RP on champs? Just a wondering, because you seem to think Riot would lose money by those exact accounts not spending RP on the champs.

That's how economics works. You don't look at huge chunks. Everything, everything is about the margins. The question isn't "will it have a big effect", it's, "will it have a non-zero effect?"

Saezio1 votes

Well, I know a lot of aram players that used to have all champs and a good amount of purchased skins that stopped playing simply because of the Aram only accounts.

I'd bet my right testicle (and it's my favourite one) that Riot lost more money by all the Veteran Aram players quitting and never coming back because of their policy than they would lose from Some accounts not spending money on CHAMPIONS. I seriously haven't met anyone that buys champs with RP to play them in ARAM. And I am not exaggerating, I have met 0 people in 9 years and 8k arams that buy champs with RP. Maybe I am the exception though and there are people out there spending money on champs to play them in ARAM.

Psi212 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NEmHlNNk,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-11T11:25:51.339+0000)

"takes the random away"

Uh, no, it doesn't. Not unless you have an ARAM-only account where you've specifically lowered the chances of getting a more fair champion by only buying the best ones for the mode. Which is exactly the bullshit they're trying to subdue with the bans.

Except they aren't because those ARAM accounts have the champs they want and banning just makes it easier for them to get the remaining they have unlocked as their choice. Especially in premades ARAM-only teams... think about it.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Except they aren't because those ARAM accounts have the champs they want and banning just makes it easier for them to get the remaining they have unlocked as their choice. Especially in premades ARAM-only teams... think about it.

You're forgetting that it includes the past 3 weeks' free champion rotations. Banning out 10 champs that an ARAM-only account would own because they're broken means it's more likely they'll get one of those 42 rather than the remaining 12 or so they own.

Jaspers4 votes

I don't like it as everyone is banning mages like Brand, Zyra, Xerath, Ziggs and Vel which means ADCs are more common and I hate ADCs in ARAM. They ruin the fun, poke mages are just for dodging. I'd take getting poked down by Ziggs, Xerath and Vel over ADCs any day.

Oleandervine2 votes

{quoted}

I don't like it as everyone is banning mages like Brand, Zyra, Xerath, Ziggs and Vel which means ADCs are more common and I hate ADCs in ARAM. They ruin the fun, poke mages are just for dodging. I'd take getting poked down by Ziggs, Xerath and Vel over ADCs any day.

People ban those champions because they have massive zone control that makes playing against them in a narrow, single lane absolute hell, especially if you don't have the range to get even remotely close to them. That's also why Lux and Veigar are also popular bans for ARAM.

Jaspers1 votes

I know why they are banned, doesn't mean the result after is any better. All those bans and what we are left with is Caitlyn placing traps and headshotting you from outside your range, Jinx W, alt Q and Rockets from outside your range and Kai'Sa firing her stupid w from off the bloody map.

I'd take every single one of the mages mentioned over any ADC in aram because at least I know I can dodge their abilities.

Midg3t4 votes

So cute seeing aram-only accounts losing their shit because they cant abuse OP champs. Well deserved. If you actually were decent players and didnt cheese the gamemode this wouldn't happen. Now pay the price.

i n u s e3 votes

{quoted}

So cute seeing aram-only accounts losing their shit because they cant abuse OP champs. Well deserved. If you actually were decent players and didnt cheese the gamemode this wouldn't happen. Now pay the price.

It begins to make up for all the frustrating streaks of games against a stacked team of ARAM accounts.

Acekill3r2 votes

10 Mages getting banned = who gets 2 adc + 3 Frontline wins the game 99% of the times, this is getting stale, boring and very Unbalanced really fast.

Ìncredible Sulk1 votes

Despite all of your valid and invalid points, it doesn't change the fact that dodge rates have increased and a select few of the champions I purchased are no longer playable because they are always banned.

Corvin07164 votes

Despite all of your valid and invalid points, it doesn't change the fact that dodge rates have increased and a select few of the champions I purchased are no longer playable because they are always banned.

With 2 rerolls and the option to pick other players' rerolled champions it is very unlikely that someone has to dodge because of bad luck. Those who dodge because of the banned champions are 100% aram-only accounts. There is no reason to dodge a game just because a certain champion is banned since there is only 1/143 chance to get it anyway. It is time to get rid of aram-only accounts. Hopefully, they are going to leave aram eventually.

Unlock all 143 champions is probably the best, until then bans will do.

Ìncredible Sulk1 votes

{quoted}

With 2 rerolls and the option to pick other players' rerolled champions it is very unlikely that someone has to dodge because of bad luck. Those who dodge because of the banned champions are 100% aram-only accounts. There is no reason to dodge a game just because a certain champion is banned since there is only 1/143 chance to get it anyway. It is time to get rid of aram-only accounts. Hopefully, they are going to leave aram eventually.

Unlock all 143 champions is probably the best, until then bans will do.

I only play aram and have since it started. Aram accounts usually don't dodge over random because we get a random champion every match. it wouldn't make sense for me to dodge a queue when I get a champ I don't want. That would mean I would have to take temp bans from queueing every few matches which wouldn't be fun. It doesn't seem like you play aram all that much so I'm not sure you understand. It's all the summoners rift regular players that seem to want bans.

RedTape1 votes

putting bans in aram was the absolute dumbest thing i think ive seen this company do

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes