Zed's ultimate nerf was absolutely uncalled for. A reversal to no delay is absolutely core to Zed

Luka The Angel·Oct 10, 2015·2 votes·1,443 views

I don't know what person at riot had the bright idea to ruin Zed's entire gameplay with one change, but they were incredibly unthoughtful. If you needed to nerf Zed (YOU DIDNT! WHAT? In WHAT world is Zed op?! Never, ever. Even in assasin meta YEARS ago he wasn't op!) this is the absolute worst way you could have done it. Now you can only use your ult if the enemy is alone, or if you can sacrifice not being able to ult back. You just can't play zed anymore without being 10x better than the enemies, and relying on a snowball.

You removed almost all the skill of zed, all of his identify, and most of his fun. I just don't know what to say, he wasn't even strong at that time you did it.

27 Comments

SoundChaosDebugOct 10, 20159 votes

It's because so many players just walked up pushed R and deleted people with his shadow escapes.

Luka The AngelOct 10, 20151 votes

Which is why you don't balance for silver. Zhonyas, and qss counter out this "just push r". Riot making bad balancing decisions that remove a champion from the game completely because silvers decide he's too strong! No one plat or higher thought he was op, at any point in the entirety of his existence, but because some silvers can't counterplay we should remove him from the game?

I mean, rengar can do 10x what zed can, but they didn't remove his core gameplay.

SoundChaosDebugOct 10, 20152 votes

They've nerfed every iteration of Rengar, AD - AP - Tank etc etc.

Rengar is even on the remake list

Adrian UmbraOct 10, 20155 votes

"No one plat or higher thought he was op, at any point in the entirity of his existence..." This is an absolute lie. Or was that period of near 100% pick/ban among the pros just my imagination? He was considered OP enough to warrant major changes to how his ultimate works to keep him from being able to burst full tanks in a single combo (yes, he could do this without being particularly fed).

And Rengar can do more than Zed can... because once he goes in, he can't get out. Zed can push R again and get out. Thus, Rengar must be incredibly fed, building tanky at the expense of his damage, or wait until CC has been burned to go in. Huh, wonder where I've heard that before. Not like most other characters have no escape other than flash. Not that Zed has to put up with that once a half second delay's done. Or if his W's off cooldown.

He can still dodge skillshots, but people have an opportunity to respond when he ults them. You know, counterplay. Not just needing to buy Zhonya's or QSS because there's a Zed on the enemy team. A team of tanks dedicated to protecting one target SHOULD be excellent against a Zed, as they provide plentiful CC with which to lock up the assassin trying to dive their carry. They should have the opportunity to use that CC rather than having to watch helplessly as Zed remains untargetable and out of reach for the entire period where he's killing the enemy carry.

alasarcherOct 10, 20157 votes

So jumping into 5 people killing one and just pressing R to escape was balanced?

Luka The AngelOct 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So jumping into 5 people killing one and just pressing R to escape was balanced?

He can still do that, it's a .5 second delay. What i'm talking about is being able to ult then ult away. to dodge skill shots, etc.

And yes, if the person is a squishy and they didn't buy qss/zhonyas, then it's balanced when they get one shot. How is it fair that a zed isn't allowed to ult until after the enemy team uses all their cc because he'll just instantly die when he goes in, because he has no ability to escape outside of flash.

MalzaharAnyLaneOct 10, 20151 votes

Making QSS/Zhonyas a required purchase against a single character every game is godawful fucking stupid and you need a bat to your knees for even suggesting it.

Zhonyas is already an obnoxious enough item by itself as-is without making it core on every single glass cannon mage.

SlytherinUmbreonOct 10, 20151 votes

Because he's an assassin. He's supposed to be countered by CC. He SHOULDN'T be able to just completely ignore Skill shot CC... And pls. Just buy Qss Teemo No, but seriously, Buy Qss. Yes that was a joke, but Faker does it.

SymbolicFearOct 10, 20153 votes

Actually Zed is the most played AD Assassin in the game right now, and Zed doesn't take any legit skill as he is the Riven of the mid lane. No mana, instant escape, and super fast insane damage combo. The main difference is that Zed with Ult is invincible and can almost always get a garenteed kill.

He needs a rework, not a nerf though. But so do many other champions. Zed is just popular so they are focusing on him right now.

Uva9x6gDhCOct 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually Zed is the most played AD Assassin in the game right now, and Zed doesn't take any legit skill as he is the Riven of the mid lane. No mana, instant escape, and super fast insane damage combo. The main difference is that Zed with Ult is invincible and can almost always get a garenteed kill.

He needs a rework, not a nerf though. But so do many other champions. Zed is just popular so they are focusing on him right now.

Both Zed and Riven (as much as I hate to admit it) take more skill than at least 80% of champions

SymbolicFearOct 10, 20154 votes

True, but I think there is a difference in muscle memory and skill. Just doing combo's and such isn't skill, its just muscle memory that you have obtained through repetition.

RalanrOct 10, 20152 votes

Interesting take on this. Haven't seen it before.

SymbolicFearOct 10, 20152 votes

Yeah, most people disagree with me, considering 90% of all the champions in the game require no skill in this sense, but its what I have noticed.

RalanrOct 10, 20152 votes

I'll put my support in your claim. Muscle memory on combos makes sense.

SymbolicFearOct 10, 20151 votes

You're one of the first to do such.

SlytherinUmbreonOct 10, 20151 votes

make that two o/ It's honestly a lot harder to control the map (Predict/track opponent positioning, Control objectives, Rotate appropriately) then any "combo" or such in the game. You can't really learn that through repetition.

NemeBroOct 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

make that two o/ It's honestly a lot harder to control the map (Predict/track opponent positioning, Control objectives, Rotate appropriately) then any "combo" or such in the game. You can't really learn that through repetition.

Every champion can do that, because those aspects of the game are not champion-specific. Sure, some champions might be able to take advantage of their map awareness better than others (like Shen), but those are not skills unique to certain champions or exclusive from Zed.

Some also require mechanical skill, and muscle memory is an aspect of skill.

A significant amount of martial arts skill involves muscle memory.

Zed is harder to play to his fullest (his skill floor is relatively low though IMO) than most champions in League.

Baseball3bOct 10, 20151 votes

The more I think about it, the more I disagree.

Combos and the like do require muscle memory. The thing is that there's so much more that goes into playing a champion well than combos. Take baseball for example. I've swung a bat hundreds of thousands, probably millions of times in my life and my swing is thoroughly ingrained in my muscle memory, but that alone isn't enough to get a hit. It's a combination of pitch identification, zone identification, timing, and situational factors that goes into an at-bat. Likewise, playing a champion consistently well involves many other factors, whereas muscle memory and combos are only one aspect of the game.

CatastropOct 10, 20152 votes

Huh, that's a very neat way to look at it. Really opens the eyes to a lot of things too.

1000angrybeesOct 10, 20152 votes

My natural instinct is to say 'good, fuck zed' but instead I'll say this: he had enormous kill potential while also being extremely safe before the nerf. That was not fun to play against at all.

Also, get a grip. 'removed all skill' He has a .5 second delay, they didn't touch anything else. Infact, I'd say it makes you more skillful because now there's timing involved instead of 'combo them whenever you feel like it'

Titanium70Oct 10, 20151 votes

Well Zed still is the Save Assassin, which actually should be an oxymoron - but Riot made it real - sigh...

Uva9x6gDhCOct 10, 20152 votes

Even if they revert it, Zed will still be trash. He needs hard buffs.

SymbolicFearOct 10, 20152 votes

Definitely not. He can do too much as of right and is way too safe. If they take away some of his safety, then they can buff him. Otherwise, he needs slight damage nerfs and needs to play as a real assassin, I.E. not 100-0 someone with 2-3k health while being behind in gold.

WookieJesuzOct 10, 20151 votes

It's a .5 second nerf.... it's not the end of the world..... wasn't this like 5 patch ago?

RalanrOct 10, 20151 votes

Got a link?

CatastropOct 10, 20151 votes

"removed almost all of the skill of zed" Op's implying that going with R and pressing it again 1 second later requires skill. It's a .5 second delay, still playable.

Luka The AngelOct 11, 20151 votes

Are you guys talking about season 3 meta?! They nerfed him half way into season 5. And no, a .5 second delay isn't "playable". and qss doesn't help, the enemy team has multiple forms of cc. You can't place your ulti inside a teamfight anymore, it's just not doable, at higher levels at least.

And yes, it removes zed from the game. The guy i'm playing now isn't him. He's something way different. You have to now play around using your ult like you are a katarina, but you don't have ANY of the pay offs of playing katarina. Right now you put your teamcomp into an all/mostly ad, have to hope they didn't counterpcik mid to have any hope at a kill, and can't go for assasinations late game unless they are alone because you can't outplay with instantly ults. It's dumb, i'd rather they just nerf his damage if they thought he was op, instead of taking away what made him an actual champ.