this guy is to op like is tower diving me and does not take damage and the hp regen the same IS TO OP i cant take this anymore, but the most annoying thing is the silence on his q and the damage >.<, please nerf him.
[zombie-brand-mindblown]
boricCentaur17 votesOr you can just be good at the game, if he is not a problem in high elo thats means he is not op and you are just bad
Hügö5 votesI don't know why you should be able to tell someone that he is bad or not.
boricCentaur12 votesYou are right I should of said you are playing vs garen badly or somthing like that sorry
Madsin254 votesHe has a 53% winrate in diamond+. With a 9% pickrate to go with it.
His banrate is 11%.
Critmaster Garen6 votesHe has a 53% winrate in diamond+. With a 9% pickrate to go with it.
His banrate is 11%.
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/garen/diamond
48% winrate diamond+
6% pick rate.
ban rate 4.8%
even including plat, most sites show a winrate of 52% right now. trends show that pickrate and winrate have both been declining this patch.
Madsin251 voteshttps://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/diamond/plus/champion/Garen/Top/
You are statistically proven to climb through diamond with garen.
Which site is more accurate or not is up for debate.
Critmaster Garen2 voteshttps://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/diamond/plus/champion/Garen/Top/
You are statistically proven to climb through diamond with garen.
Which site is more accurate or not is up for debate.
look at the blue and green graphs. both clearly showing a decline in winrate and pick rate.
the green is at betwen 50% and 51% winrate, the blue graphs shows a decline in pick rate to 7.4%.
all these analytical sites seem to have slight variances in champion stats. but all show that garens winrate doesnt break 52% anymore, and his pick rate went down every single day over the course of the past week.
give it a bit longer, and the tank changes and other meta changes to settle in, and his winrate and pickrate will normalize themselves further.
Madsin255 votesOh cool he doesn't break 52% winrate so he is balanced.
Done with this garen bias.
Critmaster Garen3 votesOh cool he doesn't break 52% winrate so he is balanced.
Done with this garen bias.
yes. 52% winratein plat isnt bad. its just slightly above average, but not to the point where its a problem.
boricCentaur11 votesStats like thst mean nothing, since there was so many champs that have better stats like talon 53% winrate, 7% pick rate, and 20% ban rate or draven 53%, 10% pick rate and 24% ban rate. so if you want to get a champ nerf because of the winrate they have then you have to start at champ with the better stats not a one you hate
Critmaster Garen2 votesStats like thst mean nothing, since there was so many champs that have better stats like talon 53% winrate, 7% pick rate, and 20% ban rate or draven 53%, 10% pick rate and 24% ban rate. so if you want to get a champ nerf because of the winrate they have then you have to start at champ with the better stats not a one you hate
these stats arent even real. winrate, pick rate and ban rate of garen are much lower.
his pick rate is steadily going down. were in the middle of a meta shift atm away from the high burst/assassin meta that favoured him over the past couple weeks.
if riot just doesnt touch him and waits it out at this point, then hes going to fall out of flavour by himself.
boricCentaur11 votesYes but my point is still the same people look at stats like this as a reason to nerf a champ when they should look at a champs numbers and counters to see if somone is op
Madsin251 votesJust because I think garen needs nerfs doesn't mean I think he is the only one. Like cmon now.
Critmaster Garen3 votesJust because I think garen needs nerfs doesn't mean I think he is the only one. Like cmon now.
the only reason why garen was strong over the past couple of weeks was because everyone was running multiple assassin teamcomps.
if you have an assassin mid, jungle and even in the support role, and a lethality marksmen on bot lane, then no shit garen is going to be strong against those teams.
tanks, cc heavy mages and enchanter supports who are his classic counters are barely played at the moment. thats not a problem with garen, but people buildig shitty teams against him.
its like running two or three marksmen against malphite or rammus.
boricCentaur11 votesYour reason for the nerf is stuff like winrate and since your the reason you said is stuff like winrate you cant we garen needs nerfs since there are othere champ with better winrates if you give more reasons then you have a point
Madsin251 votesMy reason for nerfs is he takes no dmg, he 100-0s squishys through silence giving them no time to react to flash or do anything.
He can actually escape 1v5s thanks to his insane tenacity and MS and innate tankiness unlike the rest of the juggernauts.
Critmaster Garen3 votesMy reason for nerfs is he takes no dmg, he 100-0s squishys through silence giving them no time to react to flash or do anything.
He can actually escape 1v5s thanks to his insane tenacity and MS and innate tankiness unlike the rest of the juggernauts.
your time to react is BEFORE he clearly and visibly runs up to you.
juggernauts are beefy melee carries. their entire point is that they deal a lot of damage.
Madsin251 votesYea let me pull out my mind reading helmet. Thanks for the tip.
Critmaster Garen4 votesYea let me pull out my mind reading helmet. Thanks for the tip.
do you have eyes? can you see him activating q and run towards you? thats your window to react. why do you need to be a mindreader for that?
if you didnt see him coming, then you made some sort of mistake. like you mispositioned into an area too close without vision, like a wall or a bush. you walked into his flash range while youre low on health or dont have a teammate at your side to help you out, or while he isnt locked down. you suck at minion management and got into a position where you overextended in lane when youre not strong enough to fight him head on etc.
there is probably not only one thing that youre doing wrong, but a couple mistakes that youre not even aware of.
Warlord Rhinark3 votes
Critmaster Garen3 votesim shit at this game. please nerf the champions i dont know how to deal with, so i dont have to turn on my brain and think about how i can improve.
ok then.
Madsin252 votesDon't know how to deal with? Please tell me how to deal with flash q spin into ult 100-0 can't do anything because im silenced.
Please explain to me what I should do.
Oh yea that's right "get good" even though garen has a higher winrate in plat than in bronze or silver.
Critmaster Garen2 votesDon't know how to deal with? Please tell me how to deal with flash q spin into ult 100-0 can't do anything because im silenced.
Please explain to me what I should do.
Oh yea that's right "get good" even though garen has a higher winrate in plat than in bronze or silver.
where are you pulling your stats from? your ass?
his winrate in plat+ is 52%. across all divisions, including bronze its just below 54%. so his winrate in lower divisions has to be higher. its mathematically impossible to be lower.
and i cant help you, when i dont know what youre doing wrong. all i can tell you is that youre doing something wrong.
Madsin251 voteshttps://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/bronze/champion/Garen/Top/ Bronze garen.
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Garen/Top/ Plat garen.
Literally identical except for the few trolls in plat that off role him. (funny he so busted they play garen jg in plat)
Critmaster Garen2 voteshttps://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/bronze/champion/Garen/Top/ Bronze garen.
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Garen/Top/ Plat garen.
Literally identical except for the few trolls in plat that off role him. (funny he so busted they play garen jg in plat)
look at the graphs and not the flattened out values on top of the pages.
the values youre talking about are icluding data points from patch 8.15.
the past few days, garen had between 50% and 51% winrate in diamond. and 52% at plat+ according to this site.
boricCentaur11 votesYou can kit and cc him since he is a slow champ with a big hit box and if you are getting 100-0 then you feed him or you are just stanning there not moving
Madsin251 votesHe is not a slow champ. He has a 30% MS boost every 6 seconds to go along with his ridiculously high base MS.
So sick of the only advice you garen mains can give is "kite and cc him" like that is literally the counterplay for every single champion in the game.
Critmaster Garen4 votesHe is not a slow champ.
yes he is. go through the entire pool of champions. just look at every one of them. almost every other champion, except maybe morde has either range, some form of dash, blink, jump or higher movement speed bonus.
a lot of champions are even ranged and mobile at the same time.
even as far as juggernauts go he is not particularly fast.
and 
are much faster than him.
compared to the majority of the champion pool, garen is a slow champion.
Salson1 votesDude, you're level 12. Even if OP is bad, it's still a lot better than level 12.
Critmaster Garen2 votesDude, you're level 12. Even if OP is bad, it's still a lot better than level 12.
this account is, my main isnt.
The Highest Noon2 votesY'all need to stop using statistics to determine whether or not a champion is balanced. They are not in any way related. If you can't look at a champion objectively, you shouldn't be giving your opinion on whether or not they should be nerfed. As someone who has been playing garen lately, I do believe that he's a problem and the latest items aren't fixing it.
Madsin252 votesWell garen is just such a linear champ winrates and statistics are the best things to go by.
I can only say he runs at me and 100-0s me through silence so many times.
Guzergus2 voteslook at a champion objectively
How can one guarantee they're objective especially considering their skill level is almost always mediocre (silver)?
The Highest Noon1 votesHow can one guarantee they're objective especially considering their skill level is almost always mediocre (silver)?
How can you determine their skill level if all you're going by is their Rank which 8 times out of 10 has nothing to do with their skill level?
Guzergus1 votesOh wow, I guess you haven't heard of statistics and long-run effect. Whatever, you may be as delusional as you want to.
The Highest Noon1 votesOh wow, I guess you haven't heard of statistics and long-run effect. Whatever, you may be as delusional as you want to.
Statistics are nothing more than a subjective observation. A champion can have a 0% win rate while every ability has no mana cost and instant kill everbody hit.
Improbable but entirely possible. If you're gonna judge whether or not a champion is broken, judge the champion not the players.
Guzergus1 votesI was referring to the player's skill level. There is an extremely low chance that a person has 100+ games and is still silver, yet they posses master's (or even diamond's) knowledge of the game. This chance is so low that we can safely neglect it because otherwise there is absolutely no point in discussing anything since almost each opinion boils down to subjective game experience.
The Highest Noon1 votesThere is an extremely low chance
And what mathematics did you use to decide that? What's your formula? I'm curious.
Guzergus1 votesYou have to read up and matchmaking and elo. Consider this conversation over.
The Highest Noon1 votesYou have to read up and matchmaking and elo. Consider this conversation over.
Elo: Win a game and get points; Lose a game and lose more points than you gain Matchmaking: Grouped with people who have similar points. Disregards literally every other statistic used in this game
Literally makes my point for me. What are your mathematics to make your claim?
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mud668Ij,comment-id=000400010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-24T15:09:21.320+0000)
Elo: Win a game and get points; Lose a game and lose more points than you gain
you only lose more points than you win, when your mmr is very low and you dont actually deserve the rank thats displayed on your profile, or you had a short term stroke of bad luck.
over short periods, you might get lucky and carried into mmr that you dont belong, or you will lose a couple games and end up at a lower mmr than your personal skill level. but with a large enough number of games you will always end up at the rank you belong to.
a lot of people probably tend to measure themselves by the highest rank or mmr they ever achieved, even if its by random accident.
its common sense that a master tier player will never get stuck in silver. it has been proven countless times that anyone who is at the very least a plat level player can carry himself out of bronze and silver on his own and repeatedly.
people have done so many "from bronze to diamond/master/challenger" series, that its been done to death.
The Highest Noon1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mud668Ij,comment-id=0004000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-24T15:17:01.116+0000)
you only lose more points than you win, when your mmr is very low and you dont actually deserve the rank thats displayed on your profile, or you had a short term stroke of bad luck.
over short periods, you might get lucky and carried into mmr that you dont belong. but with a large enough number of games you will always end up at the mmr you belong to.
its common sense that a master tier player will never get stuck in silver. it has been proven countless times that anyone who is at the very least a plat level player can carry himself out of bronze and silver on his own and repeatedly.
By using solo carry champions and queuing duo with other plat players?
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mud668Ij,comment-id=00040001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-24T15:25:37.413+0000)
By using solo carry champions and queuing duo with other plat players?
bro, a master teir player could hard carry bronze games on fucking top lane soraka just by better macro play.
if you have 5 times the cs as your opponent, better map awareness, better lane mechanics, focus on objectives and rotate around the map - all skills that bronze players dont have - then youll be able to win games reliably just off those mechanics alone.
it has shit to do with the champions youre playing down there.
i have seen someone carry a game with fucking jungle bard around plat mmr in the past. didnt believe it was possible, but he was just better than everyone else in the game.
The Highest Noon1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mud668Ij,comment-id=000400010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-24T15:27:37.644+0000)
bro, a master teir player could hard carry bronze games on fucking top lane soraka just by better macro play.
if you have 5 times the cs as your opponent, better map awareness, better lane mechanics, focus on objectives and rotate around the map - all skills that bronze players dont have - then youll be able to win games reliably just off those mechanics alone.
it has shit to do with the champions youre playing down there.
i have seen people carry games with fucking jungle bard around plat mmr in the past.
That sounds wonderful and all, but that really follows the assumption that everybody in the game except you is trash, which just isn't realistic. It's a nice unskilled player wet dream that you can carry yourself out if you're good, but that's again not realistic.
It has everything to do with who you're with, who you're against, and who you're using. Unless you're playing with noobs.
The Bad Touch2 votesGaren is there to deal with cheese picks.
Stop picking cheese into him.
Danjeng2 votesAccording to op.gg, Garen has the highest winrate in the entire game right now. Note that Garen generally has a tendency to do poorly on Korean servers. So there's something going on. I'm honestly disappointed in certain people who don't look at this objectively and just cry "Garen is op pls nerf" or "Garen is perfectly balanced u just suck". It turns this thread into a massive poop flinging festival. Instead I will give hard evidence of the reason for his state, and let you decide for yourself.
Here's a list of buffs Garen has recieved that may explain why he is strong. Garen has not received a single nerf in between these buffs.
Besides that, Garen is also a good pick into Assassins, which currently dominate the meta (less so after this patch). There are actually nerfs currently slated for the next patch, but they are designed to impact lower elo more, affecting high elo Garen mains less so.
Critmaster Garen4 votesAccording to op.gg, Garen has the highest winrate in the entire game right now.
52% is most certainly not the highest winrate in the game.
ahri has a higher winrate (almost 54%) and pick rate (almost 13%) than him for example.
the strongest top laner a couple days ago was yorick, who is now replaced by sion after his buffs.
has almost a 30% pick rate.
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/
and the reason he received those buffs was because he was weak when he got them. when they gave him his last set of buffs, his winrate was 46%.
afterwards it was 50% for month.
the reason why garen shot up in winrate about a month ago wasnt because of the buffs, but because the meta changed around him. people started to run low utility/high burst teamcomps with assassins and lethality marksmen. this type of champion basically sucks against garen.
now the meta is already shifting again with tanks getting played again.
Danjeng1 votesIt currently shows Garen at rank 1 with 54.83%.
http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/
Of course, his winrate scales downward as elo goes up, so I expect it to be lower around high Diamond+ level. I'm not high elo, thus I cannot give any first hand experience of how he does there. However, there are high elo Garen players, so it is doable.
Yes I'm aware that Garen works well into Assassins, as I've mentioned. I've presented both sides fairly. Don't be so quick to refute everything I say. I'm effectively neutral to either side. I have no say in the state of Garen. I only give stats and insight.
Critmaster Garen3 votesIt currently shows Garen at rank 1 with 54.83%.
you dont have any filters enabled.
first of all, this includes all games in the past month. this means all patches before 8.16.
considering there were multiple champion and rune buffs and nerfs in the meantime, this includes a lot of outdated data.
garen was really strong 3 weeks ago, and his winrate shot up to 54% for a short time. but it has been declining back to normal since then, and those stats you got there still include the games from 3 weeks ago.
8.16 shifted the meta slightly by nerfing burst, buffing tanks and weakening assassins a bit in general.
has the highest winrate on top lane after his buffs currently for example.
you havnt filtered by mmr either. you need to take games from plat and upwards, since those are the divisions riot is balancing for. theyre not including lower divisions into balancing decisions, because those players are still usually learning and make too many mistakes in their games for winrates to accurately reflect champion strength.
