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What makes junglers really bad in low elo?

ItsLio··2 votes·3,094 views

By low elo i mean under platinum 3, Anything above that ive had decent junglers . Im not trash talking junglers i just legit want to understand what is the reason whoever is playing this role usually doesnt know what they're doing pre diamond elo... No idea on jungle pathing or objective control, 1 out of 20 games ur jungler actually decides to counter jungle.

Maybe its just me, but most of the games i played to climb to diamond, if i didnt hard carry as mid/adc we usually lost the game because either bot lane loses or jungler provides no pressure whatsoever. And please dont come at me with jungling is hard because its NOT. its actually one of the least mechanically intensive positions in the game. Sure you might need a decent amount of game knowledge but really it usually comes down to if you have vision of the enemy jungler to know what his next move is.

ive had games where i could be sitting under tower the whole game, and the jungler doesnt gank once and if i ask, they either "mute" me or tell me they'd come if i stopped pushing.. when i legit have not moved from under tower and probably got tower dived a couple times. I would never ask a jungler to gank me if im losing lane, so please dont make the arguement that maybe its not a good idea to gank a losing lane.

So Whats the real reason that makes junglers utterly horrible in low elo? i would play it myself and win most games but i find no enjoyment in it as i prefer 1 vs 1s in mid or 2 vs 2s bot lane, farming and getting dragons is just not my thing. It also seems like sometimes junglers think they're gods gift to humanity and treat their laners as if they single handedly carried their lanes by ganking, which to be honest could be true, but in 80% of the time is absolutely wrong.

8 Comments

SoullessFlunky2 votes

I'm a trash jungler, I may have just been born this way :P

Ravenhale2 votes

As a bad jungler, I'm 100% convinced it's pathing and proper timing of ganks. Neither sound like they should be hard, but what else can really be blamed?

Yenn2 votes

This is exactly the reason that nobody wants to play jungle.

> My jungler doesn't counter-jungle!!! Some junglers don't have enough mobility to escape if the enemy collapses on them. Lanes aren't providing enough vision control to safely counter jungle. You suspect the enemy camps near you aren't up. You don't know where the enemy jungler is, and you don't win in a duel; there are virtually no skill-based jungle match ups, and almost all match ups come down to either one champion flat out winning, or 'the one who sees the other first wins'.

> My jungler doesn't provide pressure!!! Especially in mid lane, there's often little to no chance of a successful gank. It's not worth even attempting unless you have a guaranteed way to get on top of the target. If you're playing something like Udyr and you try to gank a LeBlanc who isn't using Distortion offensively, she's just going to chunk 70% of your health and get away unscathed. It's not worth it.

> I'm pushed in and my jungler isn't ganking!!! The jungler can't magically teleport to your lane when you're pushed in, and you aren't the only lane. If you're being pushed in, but bottom lane is pushed in and the enemy jungle has more kill potential on bottom lane, your jungler will and should prioritize a counter gank on bottom lane. How likely a gank is to succeed and whether you can fight the enemy jungler is also relevant. If the enemy jungler is ahead, you don't know where it is, and you won't win the 2v2 or 3v3, it's not safe to gank regardless of how pushed in you are.

There are millions of reasons to not gank or pressure lanes, ranging from a bad match up, to the enemy jungle being fed to shit from all three lanes overextending constantly, to being level 5 while the enemy jungler is level 6.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

please dont come at me with jungling is hard because its NOT. its actually one of the least mechanically intensive positions in the game. Sure you might need a decent amount of game knowledge

You just hit the nail on the head.

Most players below Diamond 2, let alone Platinum 3, lack good game knowledge.

As a mid main, who tried putting jungle secondary for a while (but got it way too much so I went to top secondary eventually) - I don't really know what I can do when I'm the jungler. If I try to tower dive our winning lane will I just die and give them double buffs and gold back into the game? If I gank an even/losing lane will I get counterganked by their stronger early-game jungler and get double-killed? I already know I can't invade on them because I can't 1v1 their jungler.

So I basically look to farm, look for obvious gank opportunities, and look to stay close to winning lanes so I can counter gank for them. In generally most of my successful jungle games are my allies doing well in their lanes and me getting fed off of Hecarim E + {{summoner:51}} / Predator running down free kills when my allies couldn't finish someone off. My unsuccessful games I'm similarly getting some kills, but my allies are dying and there's not much I can do to help them other than clean up the kill afterwards. I haven't played enough jungle to really know when a not-obvious gank is a good idea. I'll try them occasionally and some will work, but others will result in me giving up free kills, or wasting time where the enemy jungle main invades my buff while I'm on the map.

I get a lot of credit for wins that were super easy because my lanes all did well and I get 10+ free kills due to my MS. I also get a lot of blame when my lanes all played like garbage and died in 1v1s and don't land their CC to help when I try to gank for them. And maybe I deserve the blame because I know I'm not a good jungler (I just know I'd be a much better laner than them). Really though, it all comes down to game knowledge. And it's a lot easier to have game knowledge in a lane where you only really need to know 50-odd matchups at most, versus game knowledge in the jungle where you need to know 50-odd matchups times 150-odd lanes to gank.

BestPudgeNA1 votes

{quoted}

I get a lot of credit for wins that were super easy because my lanes all did well and I get 10+ free kills due to my MS. I also get a lot of blame when my lanes all played like garbage and died in 1v1s and don't land their CC to help when I try to gank for them.

This basically sums up what playing jungle is like.

BestPudgeNA1 votes

As a trash really bad gold 5 Jungler i'm gonna tell you something you don't wanna here but it's the truth. Junglers and when i say junglers i mean people who have 200+ games and a years time in the role. Junglers have a much much better understanding of the macro game then you do, you probably think you understand the jungle but you don't really have a clue. I've watch TF Blade do his Jungle unranked-master stream that he seems to have quit doing, when i watched him i could see all sorts of pathing mistakes he was making to give you an example of what i mean, he was playing Lee vs a D5 Amumu, at about 4 mins into the game he ganked top lane. Based on the way the game had gone it was the number of CS Lees level/hp he had it was obvious how he pathed early game that he hadn't cleared his chickens and krugs in his opening pathing, it was also obvious Amumu was bot side and was gonna counter jungle at least the chickens and maybe the krugs, it was also obvious that he should've taken Amumu's top side krugs and maybe a second gank before recalling and pathing towards his rubber banded champs. Instead he recalled in the brush, and started path towards his camps that were obviously not going to be up, when he got to them OFC they weren't up and he wasted a good 30-45 seconds walking around doing nothing because of it, he was commenting on stream that the "Amumu must be stream sniping" cause "Amumu doesn't counter jungle" but really any decent jungler would've read the same thing i did and did exactly that Amumu did. Point being if i as a gold V can spot mistakes a Rank 1 Challenger Top laner is making while Jungling you don't really stand a chance when it comes knowing what your jungler should be doing. For reference i don't notice these kinda mistakes when i watch challenger jungler stream.

Not saying your Junglers are perfect, but i'm saying your probably think you know better but the truth is you really don't

Slythrin Umbreon1 votes

Everything.

Joke aside, Since we're talking about such a large group, it basically is "a little bit of everything." Jungle IS one of the hardest roles in the game, possibly the hardest. Your reasoning against that just doesn't make sense. Mechanics doesn't even have much to do with Role, It has more to do with what champion your playing. You could literally have a game with Lee Sin (One of the most mechanically intensive champions in the game) and 4 other champions like Karthus, Soraka, and Ashe with minimal mechanics. And Game Knowledge and decision making is a lot harder then Mechanics. Low Elo is ridiculed to hell and back for it's shit decision making holding them down. It's spammed to death with "High-skill cap, mechical champions." "Chasing kills" "focusing on K/D/A over actually winning" Anyone can learn how to do a combo in the right order. Low elo Riven mains dive into the minion wave level 2, get out traded by minions, then go on boards and complain about Tanks OP/Riven needs buffs, while actually decent players snowball with her just fine.

In order to jungle well, you need to know the matchups, Have the mechanics your champion requires, be able to predict where the enemy jungler would be without vision, know your lanes' matchups, what would be profitable or successful to gank. Being severely behind on any of these skills sets you back a lot. In low elos, you also have to do this while your team is also low elo: not warding properly, poor map awareness and decision making, not following up on ganks properly, crying and playing worse when you don't gank for your losing lane even though everyone knows that's a terrible idea. And on top of all of that, Jungle gets fucked over the hardest by Riot. The role gets a serious rework at least once a year, when it's already so volatile that even simple changes can completely change champion performance. You borderline have to relearn everthing, sometimes even basic pathing, at least once a year.

And I'm saying this as someone who hardly even plays it, I just try to get into it every now and then and it's just awful to learn.

TheProfezzor1 votes

Can’t counter jungle because I don’t trust my team to collapse appropriately.

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