Why not give to Xerath a MS buff on his Q or W?

Metharius··2 votes·942 views

i have been thinking about it quite often and each time i face Ahri who now get a MASSIVE MS boost (even if she do not need it at all) ...even if you miss your target...

so here is my though. why not keep the self slow on xerath Q when he charge up, but give him bonus MS when(just after) he release ? something like: the more you charge up, the more MS you gain(that would mean up to +50% ms for 3sec after casting with a full charge)

or a flat amount just like old (W)Locus power ?

however if it s a flat amount maybe it would be better to give it to his W a bonus MS for allies ? working the same way as his slow. the closer to the center the move MS you get . meaning if you self cast you will gain MS.

basically: if enemy: slowed for X amount if allie: MS buff for the same amount

it could be great to be abble to have a glimps of hope when you get all in by a melee assassin or a tank bruiser. (remmember that xerath isnt an artillery anymore, he doesn t have any base magic pen and thus he can t really do more than a regular AP carry against tanks ... add the fac t that he have no escape, self slow and cant cast W while moving IIRC .. and with so much stealth, dash, tp ... you cant realy protect him.)

i think it would be nice in his kit and in his theme. i mean he manipulate ARCANE power ... so against enemie thoses aracne blast slow them ok and slow him while channeling. but for allies ? its a burst of pure aracne energy . a nice powersurge for allies [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] if you want you can even say that mage get more MS (or only mage get MS buff) but it may become too complicate so let s avoid it.

20 Comments

DrCyanide4 votes

Honestly, the one buff I'd want for Xerath is to have your W actually go off if you die after casting it. So many times I could have traded 1 for 1 if that just happened.

I think the idea of a mobile artillery mage is more Ziggs's thing to he honest. Considering there's very few reasons to pick Ziggs compared to Xerath anyways, it could be a nice buff for him.

Metharius1 votes

you showing the main probleme here : Xerath IS NOT an artillery anymore since his rework . hell he is even better as support now thanks to the bushes.

the definition of an artillery is a slow/rooted and fragile weapon that have long range and wreck anything under it.

that s was old xerath: root himself : and have 45% magic pen + augmented range (fully equip you go to 70% + the flat magic pen ... it was almost true damage) squishy or tank you get wreck.

(well ... even if he had an passive that gave him armor allowing me to solo an ambush from rengar .... poor rengar item 3151 )

but if you need someone more mobile : you had Ziggs . less damage but much more utility, aoe slow, bump ...

morover xerath can t do many thing vs high mobility champ. i mean ok 5 charge on ult, but they augment the CD between each shot and the Area of effect is quite small )

also old xerath ahd the best joke summoner 30 http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/e/eb/Xerath.joke1.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20121119201827

DrCyanide1 votes

Riot's definition of an artillery mage:

Artillery Mages are the masters of range, and they leverage that advantage to whittle down their opponents over time from great distances. In turn, Artillery Mages are severely punished when enemies finally succeed in closing in on them, due to their extreme fragility and limited mobility.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

Primary Artillery Mages:

  • Xerath
  • Ziggs
  • Vel’Koz
  • Jayce (hybrid Skirmisher)
  • Varus (hybrid Marksman)

Secondary Artillery Mages:

  • Lux (hybrid Artillery)
  • Nidalee (hybrid Artillery)
  • Ezreal (hybrid Artillery)

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

That's how Artillery is defined in League, that's the champions Riot considers to be Artillery (or part Artillery) in their play style.

Metharius1 votes

limited mobility Jayce

why not ? [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Ziggs

are they saying the use of his W to escape wasn t planned ?

btw all of them have bonus damage .

lux bonus damage on basic attak (can even root 2 person or one even behind minions) same for ziggs (xerath passiv only give mana, could be fun if he could mana burn è_é ) vel'koze have true damage mecanics Jayce have damage %max health same for varus ... (aka anti tank mecanics even if they can reduce the damage with armor)

xerath have .... nothing summoner 3 he is just a long range ap. also "ad artillery" have LIFE STEAL thus a fed varus can still do what he want with the bonus AS damage%max health and grivious wound not even counting the number of AD item giving armor pen...

(nida and ez ? well they are secondary so let s not count the guys who can flash each 9 sec or the pantera who can jump all day)

DrCyanide1 votes

"Limited mobility" is not the same things as "no mobility". Ziggs ability to throw himself in a direction once every 25 seconds or so is fine.

Xerath doesn't need extra damage, he's perfectly capable of obliterating targets on demand with his base damage and scalings. Rush a Luden's, hit the enemy ADC with one Q, and watch as they dip below 50% HP.

Metharius1 votes

i didn t say he need extra damage, i said he need mobility .

xerath ain t an assassin.

absolutly any AP or bruiser can burst down an adc ... you dont judge and arillery based on how good it can kill something squishy .

ziggs have periodicaly bonus damage and AOE slow that "stay on the ground" . + he can cast while moving . ziggs is safer than xerath .

1374341 votes

It is also harder for Ziggs to hit the back line and multiple enemies at once.

Not all artillery mages are the same, and they shouldn't be. If you prefer Zigg's abilities and playstyle, play him.

Metharius1 votes

It is also harder for Ziggs to hit the back line and multiple enemies at once.

oh good point but to do so you arent in a safe place anymore ... you have to advance closing the gap with any assassin or bruiser or even tank who can take you on . but i understand your point.

1374341 votes

With any immobile mage by mid game you really shouldn't be by yourself. As others have mentioned Xerath has self peel with his e and w, but you should still be behind your team.

1374342 votes

He doesn't need it, and it doesn't fit his theme. Ahri is suppose to be a highly mobile mage, that is why Riot gave her the extra Q MS (you can debate whether she actually needed that buff though). Xerath is suppose to be an immobile artillery/siege mage. His old pre rework W would root in him place in exchange for extra range and magic pen...

Xerath is hardly in a bad spot right now anyways.

Metharius1 votes

he doesn t have ANY magic pen : he is NOT an artillery ! he is just a sniping (long range) mage ...

but he have absolutly NO TOOLS **not even true damage like arhi ** to deal with tanks ... and that s the main definition of artillery . dealing with thing normal weapons would struggle to.

that s why they are slow, with no escape. old xerath root have gim 45 % magic pen + more range !!!!! thus he was rooted just like any artillery would be.

it s not because he use to be one that he is still one after rework.

so unless you can show me why you consider him as an artillery ....

now i m not saying the new one is bad ..(i have more fun playing the new one that the old one (duh with a full skillshot kit obviously it s funnier)) but he is clearly lacking MS boost on his kit. morover now that he can t melt tanks/bruiser . even old xerath had MS boost after using his W

Skelenth3 votes

In League artillery is primaly used to focus the backlines, not the tanks. A thing at which Xerath is exceedingly good at.

He doesn't need a movement speed boost. What for anyways? To run away? You got your E and W to peel for yourself, and if they still catch up to you, your team can help you. If your team can't help you, you're out of position and deserve to die.

Metharius1 votes

so your saying i should juste use Q in tf and keep the long CD E and W in case any bruiser jump on me ? you dont need artillery to kill squishy you just need long range sniping .... xerath was called an artillery because just like thoses heavy weapon: he dealt tons of damage with magic pen with a long range and was stationnary.

this xerath ist the same,he even self slow... minus the magic pen... he doesnt even have any true damage or bonus damage mecanics to deal with bruiser...

tell me why pick xerath and not velkoz? why pick someone who slow himself by 50% while casting in this current meta with so much dash MS tp etc .... why play xerath and not arhi who have tons of mobility, good range with true damage with her Q and 3flash-like dash every ~70 sec ? morover her charm work great even at close range

xerath stun ? is RIDICULOUS at close range .(0.5sec) (aka when you need it the most)

xerath should have MS because he isn t abble to have the slightest chance against bruiser or tank on him anymore.

and dont say " they shouldn t get to you in the 1st place" if you do then explain please. you want my entire team to circle arround me doing nothing? getting poked to death just in case a reksai or kah zix all in me ? or me to afk far far behind and only use my ult ? i mean ... comeone , this is 2016 league of legend. you have hecarim reksai kah zik, arhi , tons and tons of dashy/super fast champ.

so either you give him back his artillery theme and thus tool to be abble to deal damage to bruiser/tank or you give him a little bit of mobility . the mobility on his Q after a slow for example shouldn t be op. you get progressivly slowed by 50% you get a rapidly decresing MS boost of 50% (or less if you charge less)

come on ! even velkoz or ziggs have an AoE airbone and airbones CAN T BE REDUCE WITH TENACITY. even cait have 90 Caliber Net or traps (even jayce have a dash, a knockback and a AoE boost MS... even Ez have a flash each 10 sec, even nidalee have pounce) ... and even malz have AoE silence + void swarm allowing him to deal damage while in full retreat and an ult ... who deal % TARGET MAX HEALTH and root them meaning he cant defend whimself against anyone who jump on him. (up to 75% target max HP with 400 ap)

and finally : why play xerath when lux have nearly as much range a double cage and a shield ? sure not all her ability deal damage ... but she have a much creater survability and a spammable ult 50sec CD without CDR who can hit an entire team easely ...

(nb: imb4"why dont you play all thoses champ then" because i still love xerath (old) lore and style (before he got change to a weak disney court mage villain who betray his king). he also was the 1st champ i bough back in s2... )

Skelenth1 votes

Xerath has the highest effective range in the game. By that I mean the following: Vel'Koz has to hit his E, which has mediocre range before even dreaming about barraging his whole combo into the enemy team. He also doesn't have access to the backlines without using his ultimate. Lux' Q can be bodyblocked aswell, through minions or tanks/bruisers who can take the beating. Especially because Lux doesn't have innate magic penetration aswell. Almost everything from Ziggs is easily avoidable or blocked.

Then we have Xerath: Every spell except his E, ignores collision, one way or the other. They also have a fairly low Cooldown if you build Morellonomicon. He can take out fleeing targets with Q or R, and is relatively safe against Assassins, since most of them have to go the fastest route (straight forward) to get to him, which is an easy hit for his stun.

He has one of the safest playstyles in the game and you want him to compensate his only weakness in his own kit?

Metharius1 votes

He also doesn't have access to the backlines without using his ultimate.

say what ? x) his Q if you know has to aim can "flank" the backline forcing them to either advance or retreat hiw W can get to the backline too

her Q can be bodyblock ? dude it can hit up to 2 enemy in a row. the duration is also a 2 second however you hit them in melee or not . (and apply her passiv +190 +20% ap if you put one basic attak while fleeing)

xerath have a stun who only do 2sec if at max range (projectile's speed is slower than lux's Q) and if you have a tank flashing just in from of the carry only he will get stun, unlike lux who can root up to 2 target. (again for 2 sec no matter the range so it s great even to escape)

relatively safe against Assassins, since most of them have to go the fastest route (straight forward) to get to him, which is an easy hit for his stun.

have you been playing the same game ? maybe Bots IA do that but i dont know a SINGLE assassin without a dash or jump...(aka tools to go for the backlines... and righfully so )

i wouldn t call someone who is near rooted while casting and with no reliable cc against anyone abble to jump on him "safe" just because he have long range. Cait is super safe thanks to her trap + net . morover when you have lux with her root, velkoz with his AoE bump(who is not supposed to be used as a direct damage source that you spam. exept for dueling. it s a life saver, enemy bruiser or tank get to close ? use it , else dont go melee just for the lulz of puting it ...)

i can understand range = safe in the past but nowadays ?

i dont think giving him a rapidly decaying MS boost after casting his Q (if charged) will make him suddently "op". it will make him a more viable character .... even his previous version had a MS boost (35%) ... AND an armor boost+ based on AP ...

dapositiveviking1 votes

dont confuddle artillery out of game with artillery in game

Metharius1 votes

i m not,because the term is used because of the real life meaning. the normal meaning.

same goes for marksman(/sharpshooter) ...

they didn t called gaves class name out of the blue.... even if sometime it seems they really don t know anything and just go for the style (ez hybrid artillery ? nida ? wtf? nida why not ...her spear deal more at max range)

dapositiveviking1 votes

in that case, can you name anyone in the game artillery style that was magic pen built into their kits? I'm drawing a blank bc I don't know kits that well. i do think, however, that a xerath or lux or ziggs who throw out these long range aoe spells DO count as artillery. they stay further back because they have the privilege to in their longer ability range

Metharius1 votes

xerath had and he was was an official artillery champ . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5MmuMJ2qU

no other champ was considered that way until ... 3month ago? [zombie-brand-facepalm] before they start to give it to ANY mage with high range ... xerath was THE artillery champ. everything about hit old kit was smells it ... they never state EVER exept in thoses recent thing about "subclass" that they where another artillery champ. because there wasn t any

btw xerath was N°1 burst champ seconded by viktor

now i can understand vel'koz as artillery .. his ult kind of do this and his passive is made for that too . but other than that

when you see EZ tag as an half artillery ... nidalee ? jayce and varus ? varrus is like cait: a marksman ... having no escape doesn t make them artillery ... what s next ? jinx because of the gatling and rockets ?

so yea now they give this title to anyone also as if it was to hide how xerath lost this trait as much as he lost his badass lore ... but i digress.

shaiith2 votes

Xerath used to have a MS buff, but combined with his long range, he dominated without actually being in the fight.

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