I just hit diamond and im currently losing 19 lp each game and only gaining 14 lp every win. When i was in platinum 1 it was reversed; I would gain 19 lp and lose 14-15 lp.
It feels so punishing for playing 4-6 games and ending in a 3-3 or 2-2 just to learn that you actually have less LP than you originally started with, why play at all at that point?
Anybody else experience this before?
5050BS4 votesRank system should be reworked.
Elo works only if you have preset teams that done change for a season and all players play to win and there are no smurfs. None of those happen in rank.
So it should be you gain LP but never lose LP.
Wins give you X LP +/- the difference of the average of the teams difference. Losses give you nothing but do not take away LP ether.
Teams can not have more than average difference +/- 100
Players on a team can not have more then average difference +/- 50 form a team mate.
This way the more you play the higher on the ladder you get but if you suck you gain nothing so winners climb faster and have bigger totals so will be higher on the ladder.
Kai Guy2 votesNo. Provably by math Elo works for team games of random players assuming a few modifications are made.
You can test this with RNG dice rolls if you need.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB2UADNoRUA
Alternatively, This guy does a decent job making one and showing it pretty clearly.
5050BS1 votesThe video shows 100% why its trash to use Elo on random 5v5
Most players dont have over 200 games and it shows that the plots are a mess.
It also shows that the longer you have had your account the more the system will stick you in a rank even if your skill has improved because most players dont play more then 200 games and that plot is a mess. If you got stuck in low rank and have played a long time you will not bubble up to the top unless you play more then 1k games AND the longer you play the more the system sticks you to one rank so you are looking at 20k+ games to climb.
The Video does not take into account players improving nor does it take into account smurfing and trolling.
Elo works only if
Oh and it also does not take into account Riot changing a champ someone is good with between seasons and in the middle of a season. Or the players that jump on to the new OP/Bugged champ to climb.
Kai Guy2 votesThe video shows 100% why its trash to use Elo on random 5v5 Shows that it works. This matters because there are a lot of bad matchmaker systems that don't account for skill or sort the ladder.
Like this idea for example.
So it should be you gain LP but never lose LP. Wins give you X LP +/- the difference of the average of the teams difference. Losses give you nothing but do not take away LP ether. Teams can not have more than average difference +/- 100 Players on a team can not have more then average difference +/- 50 form a team mate. This way the more you play the higher on the ladder you get but if you suck you gain nothing so winners climb faster and have bigger totals so will be higher on the ladder.
Lets bold a relevant bit.
This way the more you play the higher on the ladder you get but if you suck you gain nothing so winners climb faster and have bigger totals so will be higher on the ladder.
Not really. a guy with 20 wins out of 20 games is the same in your system as the guy with 20 wins out of 100 games. both are treated as the same skill same quality and will be pulled by matchmaker to be in the same games. The gap between their skill is going to matter. A guy with 100 wins out of 5000 games would be HIGHER on the ladder then both of them despite having a unimaginably terrible win % simply because he is able to grind grind grind more matches then the others.
This does not make a better **COMPETITIVE ** ladder. This does not make better matchmaker. This does not fix teams. This does not help the game. Its a weak system that wont work and solves no issues. A griefer troll who constantly is baggage will end up higher then players who want to win simply because he has time to get more wins on his account then some one with out it.
"Most players dont have over 200 games" Your using this as an argument VS mmr when your suggestion LITERALY favors any player who can invest more games. "This way the more you play the higher on the ladder you" ^ this is awfull and does not make a competitive ladder built off skill. Just time investment.
Elo works only if
- Teams dont change in the season
- All players play to win
- There are no smurfs
Oh and it also does not take into account Riot changing a champ someone is good with between seasons and in the middle of a season. Or the players that jump on to the new OP/Bugged champ to climb.
Doesn't have to. 1 champion is all you got? kudos... your a weaker player. A single Bad luck banning champion selection hamstrings you. Champion abuse?
Yea.... Hows that work for the majority of players?.... How many lower MMR 
are there? Every FOTM champion sees its win rate drop because weak players rush to OMG OP... and cant climb or win to save their lifes?
If OP champions are all it takes to win... And you believe this to be true. Why are you not climbing the ladder?
Boo Koo God1 votesI like this and this would be a smart change.
Kai Guy1 votesIt would be a disaster. The negative impact on matchmaker quality is huge. You need bad players to sink. No one should be rewarded for playing 1k games and winning 30% of them.
There's a massive amount of further work required to get this suggestion to be functional.
very friendly2 votesRank system should be reworked.
Elo works only if you have preset teams that done change for a season and all players play to win and there are no smurfs. None of those happen in rank.
So it should be you gain LP but never lose LP.
Wins give you X LP +/- the difference of the average of the teams difference. Losses give you nothing but do not take away LP ether.
Teams can not have more than average difference +/- 100
Players on a team can not have more then average difference +/- 50 form a team mate.
This way the more you play the higher on the ladder you get but if you suck you gain nothing so winners climb faster and have bigger totals so will be higher on the ladder.
problem with this is halfway through the season, somebody starting ranked for the first time would be at 0 and others would be at maybe 500-1000 lp? big loophole in your suggestion
5050BS1 votesHow is that much different then in the current system?
If a Diamond player starts an account or just starts the season half way through, he will be hard pressed to get to Diamond.
Also with my system you could cut the season up into splits. In the end of season your Rank is based on the average of your splits you played in or something.
Also my system would discourage Smurfing and multiple accounts (not a bad thing) because if you are going to spend time playing you might as well push up your main account.
Illabethe1 votesHow do you think I feed with a 65-70% Win rate as Support/Mid/Jungle, being Silver II almost Gold, and the system where I climbed having "Fill" as an option.... only to have all those ranks combined into a single rank, and my effective MMR dropping from Silver II/I to Bronze I, because my Bot/Top win rate wasn't as good as the others?
I played 300 games on "Fill." just to get this account to Silver II from Bronze III. Now I have to do it over again, because my win LP is 9-13 LP and my loss LP is -23-21.
I'm one of the only players I've eve heard of so far that has a 52% overall win rate, 65-70% in 3 roles, who is losing over double what they are gaining.
5050BS1 votesIm at +14/-19 and have a 62% win rate over last 20 games. Riots system punishes those that have long standing accounts.
We should be able to request a hard reset of our account
5050BS1 votesOh and because of their failed messed up attempt at Positional Rank, all of out games that were messed up this season count against us.
S9 to get a true measure of your account you need 1k games but the system nails you down the more and more you play.
TheQuixoticKid1 votesMe to got a 57% win rate losing 5 lp than I'm gaining starting to think the ranked ladder is seriously rigged. I'm thinking of buying a skin just to see what will happen then with riot buffing champions who just got skins out even though they dont need it, I wouldn't put it past these assholes to lean the ranked ladder in favor of those who actually spend money on the game.
PrismalDawn3 votesI do. I am now gaining 14 and losing 19 like you.
Pretty dumb tbh.
Titanium702 votesLP MEAN NOTHING!
That's the first and most important thing to remember/know!
MMR is the one and only thing you should ever care for. MMR decides the players you're matched with. MMR decides the players you're macthed against.
All this messy LP system does is comparing your MMR to the avarge MMR of the Division you're in!
If it's higher you gain more LP and losse less. If it's lower you loose more LP and gain less.
All for the sake of keeping your League as closely as possible to your MMR.
Obviously whenever you climb a Tier your LP lowers for reasons I just mentioned. But if you keep playing 'normaly' you will reach a balanced LP gain/loss eventually.
Alternatively: If you're really pissed of by those LP gains you can hard fix your MMR:
If you reach a promo you can dodg-cancel your series after winning one round to artificially boost your MMR in comparison to your Division since you're no longer cimbing in Ranks will still gaining more and more MMR. (requires a positive winrate.. obviously)
Quepha2 votesIt's public knowledge that LP follows MMR. If you're losing more than you gain then your MMR is below your current rank and you need to start winning more often to raise your MMR. If your winrate is 50% or higher over the long run and it still isn't going up, that means you're still only really winning matches against weaker opponents that the system already expects you to win against.
LP losses being greater than gains is an obvious eventuality of the system. Everyone should expect it to happen at one point and making a thread to complain about it makes no sense.
Kai Guy1 votesHappens. Just keep winning more then you lose and it balance out. Then eventually reverses. I find not giving a dam about tier and LP gains and only caring about if my overall win % is positive helps me stay focused when I try to climb.
Thou im not diamond level skill. Top of plat at my very best. High gold low plat tends to be my average. Still as I started bronze cant say im to upset to be hard stuck far above what I once was.