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I'm quitting after the Lee nerfs until hes playable again.

MLGDougie··2 votes·1,178 views
Game stats by champion - League of Legends

So for the past two weeks riot has been releasing several nerfs to Lee Sin and saying that he is too strong, but then they don't nerf champions like Vi or Hecarim and release Camille who deals 40% of your hp with her q and has a gap closer that stuns you that is nearly impossible to dodge unless the Camille player is just bad an misses it, not to mention an invulnerability into a Jarvan ult that you can't even flash out of, how is that even close to fair or balanced for any player? I understand that they balance the game around the top tier players but they still have to make the game playable for everybody else, you can't just sweep Lee sin under the rug and say, "yea hes back in line now" while hes sitting at nearly a 45% win rate before the newest ult nerfs? Right now I'm in high gold and getting back to plat like i was last season and riot makes my main champion useless next to the others that are rocking win rates 10% higher than him in some cases. I don't get how any of these recent changes are getting the "OK" by the balance team, I've had several accounts since late season one and I've been playing lee ever since and hes by far the worst he has ever been and i just cant support a game that has its balance teams ruining the high skill cap champions and making the champs with a very low skill ceiling like Vi Hecarim and now Camille be so disgustingly overpowered, so I'm quitting league until lee sin is a viable champion that Isn't just outclassed by everyone else. Also if you wanna see how much of a joke league is right now click on the op.gg link and look at LeeSin ban, pick, and win rates for today, its actually pitiful. Even his diamond and challenger win rates are barely hitting 50% right now which is pathetic considering he's easily top 5 in the hardest skill ceiling department. Also i just wanna add some tips for buffing lee sin, make his w shield really good or make his e reduce attack speed again then he will become the go to peel jungler if you are going to take away is early game brawling and his pick potential with the damage nerfs, that would satisfy both parties, because the people that don't like him are just salty over his damage, i just want him to be viable as a jungle pick again. There would also be a reason to play him seeing as he is just 100000% outclassed in the dive into the enemy team category by the other junglers i mentioned earlier but he still has the option if a enemy player miss-positions. I think that was his original purpose anyways was to be a dynamic do it all jungler but by having next to no peeling capabilities right now there is just no reason to play him in the current patch.

15 Comments

SEKAI3 votes
  • First of all, no nerfs will ever destroy him. Wanna know why? Because he's not someone like Morde who Riot doesn't give a rat ass about, Riot WILL make sure that whatever they do, Lee will always have a place in this game.
  • Secondly, Lee has been not only great, but dominating and choking the jungle meta for at least 4 seasons straight, you should have already had your fun.
  • Thirdly "hardest skill ceiling" is just a better sounding word for "overloaded". It takes skills to use your overloaded kit, sure, but it's also unfair as well. Do you like always deluding yourself into thinking that you're such a good player when in fact half of that is simply contributed by broken and blatantly unequal design and power-budget management disaster?
  • Fourthly, as an extension to the previous point, no nerfs will ever destroy him. How? Remember back when Feral Flare/Devour was so broken as shit, every game was either a coin toss between Yi, Udyr or Xin jungle? Do you also remember who else was also very popular as a jungler standing shoulder to shoulder with those 3 just fine? Lee Sin, who didn't even run Devour.
  • Fifthly, 47% win rate isn't too bad, it's just normal for the fact he still has 5% pick rate and 19% ban rate. The win rate drop is just attributed to the fact he is no longer a jack of all trades who's also pretty darn close to master of most, and that people are trying to adjust and that's all. Again, because of how his kit is "designed" he will NEVER be not useful.

Much like how his pick rate has dropped from 30% something to 5% from merely a slight nerf that's clearly not anywhere close to what other champs have to put up with, it's pretty clear that the "fans" of this champ are playing him solely due to his power. And much like them, you're just throwing a fit because he is no longer an easy champ for you to just abuse and feeling all great about yourself for playing the supposed "hardest skill ceiling" champ.

Mordepool1 votes

{quoted}

  • First of all, no nerfs will ever destroy him. Wanna know why? Because he's not someone like Morde who Riot doesn't give a rat ass about, Riot WILL make sure that whatever they do, Lee will always have a place in this game.

Ugggh. My feels.

MLGDougie1 votes

level 30 bronze from OCE giving us insight right here keep up the good words of wisdom friend lmfao, riot cares about the money and they shift the meta and champions when they want they already collected their 20$ in lee skins from dumbasses like me, not they ruined him and made braindead champions like vi and hecarim and camille overpowered and took him out of the game, watch, in the next 3-4 weeks lee sins play rate will drop to nothing even though he is a fan favorite because his kit is fun but he doesnt win games because hes garbage, the difference between your argument and mine is that the stats prove what i'm sayign and you are spewing nonsense and also i've put in the games to know what i'm talking about and you just havn't, sorry but you are just wrong if you thing hes viable at this point, because he just isn't at all. also his overall winrate is 45% its not 47% you look at todays because thats the current patch, and thats 1% higher than azir who is 100% out of the game right now hes so bad

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

level 30 bronze from OCE giving us insight right here keep up the good words of wisdom friend lmfao, riot cares about the money and they shift the meta and champions when they want they already collected their 20$ in lee skins from dumbasses like me, not they ruined him and made braindead champions like vi and hecarim and camille overpowered and took him out of the game, watch, in the next 3-4 weeks lee sins play rate will drop to nothing even though he is a fan favorite because his kit is fun but he doesnt win games because hes garbage, the difference between your argument and mine is that the stats prove what i'm sayign and you are spewing nonsense and also i've put in the games to know what i'm talking about and you just havn't, sorry but you are just wrong if you thing hes viable at this point, because he just isn't at all.

First of all, if you want to use the rank as an argument, at least get it right, I'm Silver. Why say I'm Bronze (though I guess Bronze and Silver are the same thing)?

Secondly, what's so wrong with my region, [redacted]

Thirdly, nice cynical argument of "oh XXX only cares about money", even though they are actually LOSING money by nerfing Lee and it is one among the biggest gamble they'd taken while opposing their own interests. In case you haven't realised, players don't generate the big money cash money revenue for Riot, it's E-Sport that does, and guess what, E-$port loves Lee Sin and "high skill ceiling" champions, they can't get enough of it. Now, what do you suppose what's gonna happen after the Lee and other "high skill ceiling" champions' nerf? There will be less money from both the E-Sport scene and from players like you, all of you "high skill ceiling" fans who contribute some 20% of all League players in the future; can't you see they are losing BIG MONEY by nerfing Lee in favour of A MORE BALANCED GAME? Because let's be real, 20-30% pick rate IS abnormal, don't even try to hide it under "fun" or other nonsense and clearly sentimental as well as subjective measure which all ultimately mean absolutely fk all.

Think about that. While as you're being all cynical and snide thinking that you "beat it" with your "Riot just wanna scam us". You are missing the biggest part of this decision that Riot is throwing millions of money away so that the game would be more balanced. While Riot has many badwater with many players, this decision is certainly something even the players who are most hateful towards Riot can respect, at least to a certain extent.

But you don't, because your broken shit that was intentionally kept afloat for 4 years has been finally nerfed, which isn't even big btw, especially when you look at what other champs get all the god damn time. Good riddance.

........................

The stat also proves nothing from your claims btw.

Remember when Udyr and Yi also had 20% pick rate? Going by your logic that's because they are fun and high skill ceiling and have absolutely nothing to do with balance, nope not at all.

Clearly.

Also remember good o' LB, so obnoxiously broken but sported a pitiful 46% win rate over all?

Because win rate is not a definitive answer to whether or nor a champion is viable or otherwise. There are a lot of factors at play. But then again, you obviously know that, and is merely throwing that 1 stat around because it confirms your agenda. 10/10 rationality.

In reality, the closest thing we have as an indicator about the state of a champion is pick rates.

  • If pick rate spikes dramatically after certain changes, there's usually trouble.
  • If the pick rate is notorious low approaching non-existence, there is trouble, mostly because they are severely underpowered or too binary feast-famine to be considered healthy or a viable candidate to main.
  • If the pick rate is nonsensically high, so high it can be 10s or 100s of times higher than other champs, it's VERY obvious that there's trouble.

etc

Mind you, 5% pick rate is still on the high end of champion pick rates. Most champions are spread between 0 to 2-3% or so pick rates. This is NOT a sign that this guy is weak. He's just okay, get over it.

Ahristocats1 votes

Diamond 1 demoted to diamond 2 in euw

lee is perfectly fine you justhave to get good so stop arguing with ranks now

Ahristocats1 votes

there was an era were lee wasn't dominating, but riot just buffed him

rtbf2216514122 votes

Your precious got nerfed. Big deal.

Craft Zeppelin1 votes

I need a break from these press R and Q outplayed ya lol games with lvl 3 jungle cheeses

dim2a1 votes

I think he should get some more nerfs until his PLAY rate is more in line with champions you mentioned. Can be a bit higher, but 30+% was kinda ridiculous. Yay for lee nerfs.

MLGDougie1 votes

a high play rate is because hes fun,and now that hes garbage that will go down shortly after people realize just how bad he is, you should be happy if he gets on the enemy team until that happens right now tbh

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

a high play rate is because hes fun

I call bull shit.

Unless your definition of fun is having unfair advantages.

If you have 3 guns, a combat knife and a grenade when you go up against a guy who only has 1 gun. Sure you need more skills to use all of your gadgets at once, but that still doesn't excuse the fact the loadouts are completely uneven from the very get go. This is what Lee Sin, and other "high skill ceiling" champs are. They are unfair champions.

And that's why people like them, because they are "fun".

MLGDougie1 votes

his kit lets people outplay others and if you can't dodge a q that moves at 1750 ms (which is really slow for a skill shot) then yea hes good but if you are decent hes pretty useless, i'm a 220k lee sin player so i know that hes fun because sometimes you can get a god kick off, but even i still rock a 50% winrate on him because he cant carry late game at all and you cant snowball your team in any elo outside of masters+ enough to ensure a win, thats what the winrates say anyways because hes less than 50% in d1- this patch, and now theyve made his damage so piss poor that he cant get that early game snowball off to begin with in 90% of games, so there is really no way to ensure a win or carry your team anymore

SEKAI2 votes

{quoted}

his kit lets people outplay others and if you can't dodge a q that moves at 1750 ms (which is really slow for a skill shot) then yea hes good but if you are decent hes pretty useless,

First of all, that's bulls because it's one among the fastest in the game. The range is also pretty up there in the melee class skill shots category.

Secondly, Lee also has one among the strongest mobility in the entire game, he doesn't have to snipe you, he just needs to get near you and hit it point blank, which he can and will do.

{quoted}i'm a 220k lee sin player so i know that hes fun because sometimes you can get a god kick off, but even i still rock a 50% winrate on him because he cant carry late game at all and you cant snowball your team in any elo outside of masters+ enough to ensure a win, thats what the winrates say anyways because hes less than 50% in d1- this patch, and now theyve made his damage so piss poor that he cant get that early game snowball off to begin with in 90% of games, so there is really no way to ensure a win or carry your team anymore

There is a difference. In the case of Lee Sin, there is only a matter about whether YOU can or can not pull something off. In other champs there are usually clear boundary of capabilities on the champions THEMSELVES. But there is absolutely none in Lee save for the fact he drops off in late game and become an off-tank. Too many pluses and not enough minuses, how is that hard to grasp that there is a trouble in the design itself?

If he is no longer fun just because his stat is cut off a bit, you can consult Shaco mains on how exactly it feels like to routinely have your champs' damage gutted over and over when damage and stealth are all they could do to begin with, and unlike Lee who also has potent list of utilities and smaller drop-off in late game than Shaco as well.

There is also a difference between Lee players and Shaco players: It is that the former cry and moan at the drop of the hat, crying that the champion is no longer viable and is left in the dust, from wrist slappings; while Shaco players get their main's head chopped off all the time and they still find more ways to make the champion work decently.

You are not a player who's playing because you find them fun or interesting, let's all be real, you're just abusing shit that's fundamentally broken and that was kept that way for whatever reason.

10SaeKki1 votes

bye~~

ThugWalrus1 votes

There isn't enough data to make a judgement on how hard the nerfs have hit. It's been what 5 days? Everytime a champ gets nerfs their winrates drop quite a bit no matter what the nerf is, then almost without fail, the winrate will crawl back up and equalize somewhere slightly lower than it was before. Even something as silly as a slight damage reduction on Kled's W we see a 0.8-1.0% WR drop the next patch and then a climb back up to about where it was.

I'm also tired of people mindlessly spouting off winrate statistics as the word of God. Like "Hear ye hear ye, this champ has a 48% winrate, and is thus garbage, I am a genius, bow to my knowledge of game design." Winrate is NOT a stat that can be looked at in isolation. It is sometimes a fairly decent indicator, but rarely on its own. Lee Sin's winrate needs to be looked at in tandem with his PLAY RATE, which was the highest in the game last patch if I'm not mistaken. If you have a supposedly "high-skill cap" champion, who is the most popular jungler in the game AND has a 50%+ winrate, that is problematic as it means people with little to no knowledge of the champion are picking him up and having above average results. I think the "Win% by games played" is a much better stat to look at as it shows the power of the champion in a knowledgeable players hands, and I highly doubt we will see a drop to 45% for people with more than 50 ranked games of Lee Sin in the next patch. If you're actually good at Lee Sin, then you're winrate would drop waaaaayyy less than the general winrate.

I also find your "I'm quitting until Lee is playable again" stance to be extremely melodramatic and childish. Even if he truly is a 45% winrate champ (which like I said is highly improbable as champs always drop more than normal RIGHT after a patch), that means you will lose 1 extra game for every 20 games you play. If that is so unbearable that you can't even handle playing league of legends anymore, than please leave, you clearly don't have the mental fortitude to play anyway. Buck up, players have had to deal with far worse to their favorite champions and haven't quit and cried about it. People are still playing Taliyah and Morde for christ's sake. My favorite champ got like 10 nerfs in a row over several patches when he was strong (Gangplank) and I still had fun playing him.

If Lee Sin was overnerfed, Riot has shown me no reason to believe they won't buff him right back into relevance. Even last season when he was performing just fine, they just gave him a random W buff for free so we would see him in LCS.

PS: I was Diamond last season so you won't be able to throw out the "gg bronze n00b opinions" here.

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