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It's May 2019, can we get a Tryndamere that plays like it?

poopsavage··7 votes·4,864 views

Tryndamere much like (Ashe, Yi, Shaco and similar unreworked legacy characters) is iconic and cements this games roots as an alternative to Dota. That said, in a game that is now so entirely it's own thing, it feels out of place and clunky to have a character who still plays like an old school melee farming hard carry with little synergy in his kit. More modern and reworked champions have real expression through their kits which makes a fight as or with them feel engaging and rewarding for both parties. Tryndamere's flaws are ripe and blatant and go to the nature of his Kit. For the record, I've played Trynd since 2010 in Wood VI.

His Passive- 35% crit chance at level 1 is massive. Compound this with his high base damage, and the benefits of certain runes that offer attack speed or true damage and it's unfair to play against. As the Trynd player, it's unfun to depend on luck in your trades. Maybe change it to a steroid scaling off of his missing % health, or something that doesn't tie him to marksman items .

His Q- A raw, instant heal that consumes the entirety of his offensive resources. Offers a negative synergy with his passive, and the passive aspect of the skill. At it's best, it will save your life in the right place at the right time. Most often, it gets made irrelevant with your ult and life steal. Maybe In moving Tryndamere away from crit chance to some other mechanic it could be changed to a reset/skill slash that consumes his fury for big damage and a heal.

His W- One of the few abilities in the game with no scaling. This is a support ability. Impairing CS in toplane with it is fun, but it just doesn't feel like it belongs on the OG big sword man in 2019. A targeted taunt with a shield would be wayyyyy cooler, or really anything other than this stupid skill.

His E- Best ability in the game. In fact, it's too good. On demand mobility, and damage on such a short cool down, can even go through walls. It's just too loaded. Redesign it as an engage ability and remove it's escape potential.

His R- This is what makes Tryndamere "Tryndamere". Despite the complaints of the children I play against, this ability is not the root of his problems. There is Counterplay and there is escape. The issue is, it's boring. I pop it and I can wail on somebody for 5 seconds without dying, or run away for 5 seconds without dying. Redesigning Tryndamere opens up this ability to be entirely reimagined. %damage resist that scales with missing health? Drastically increased fury generation for new q spam? STEROIDSSSS? All of the above? Other inventive ideas? Could be sick.

It's 2019 people, lets make Tryndamere great again.

39 Comments

Quepha4 votes

Nah, Trynd is fine. He has one of the only risk/reward mechanics in the game that actually works as risk/reward instead of simple risk mitigation. Your changes all sound like you want to make him into a completely generic, skill-less stat-check diver which League already has in spades.

It's really funny how people complain about Tryndamere being braindead yet your suggested changes at every point on his kit remove all thought, choice, and strategy from him.

TimX24968B3 votes

he's one of the last chapions that simple. he's straightforward, reliable, and consistent. thats why i love to play him. i feel like any new rework or change riot puts on him is going to just make him gimmicky or make abilities situational, removing what i like about him. im sick of seeing these new champs where you have to play around their kits to be effective instead of utilizing the kit to be effective, like on older, simpler champs.

Mavëríck1 votes

{quoted}

he's one of the last chapions that simple. he's straightforward, reliable, and consistent. thats why i love to play him. i feel like any new rework or change riot puts on him is going to just make him gimmicky or make abilities situational, removing what i like about him. im sick of seeing these new champs where you have to play around their kits to be effective instead of utilizing the kit to be effective, like on older, simpler champs.

This. It's not like say, Master Yi, which is truly brain dead in every sense of the word. It doesn't matter how badly you do as him. You farm out the game and come back and throw yourself at the enemy team mashing Q to dodge all the cc. He deletes squishies, over heals while dueling actual duelists and tanks. Eats towers. Farms the map easily, and can solo Baron with just 2 items that both don't have lifesteal or flat AD damage, his main stat, not including boots; item 3091 item 1416 .

poopsavage1 votes

Play Dota2.

TimX24968B1 votes

play heroes of the storm

poopsavage1 votes

Yeah, and that's why I'm not the final word. That said though, He deserves an updated kit to make him both more engaging to play as and against. Pushing R at the last second is not strategy. Choosing which way you spinning slash every 3 seconds is not depth. Built in crit chance is skill less stat checking. W and the active portion of Q are barely skills. Give him choice and strategy with more and more meaningful button pushing.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, and that's why I'm not the final word. That said though, He deserves an updated kit to make him both more engaging to play as and against.

Nah, you don't know what you're talking about.

Pushing R at the last second is not strategy.

Correct, it's skill

Choosing which way you spinning slash every 3 seconds is not depth.

Completely wrong, that's a huge range of choices that accomplish different things in different situations, that is exactly what creates character depth.

Built in crit chance is skill less stat checking.

So what? As a squishy melee champion with little utility, it is expected for him to win in an auto attack fight (which he still doesn't necessarily do at all stages of the game depending on the opponent)

W and the active portion of Q are barely skills.

You're somewhat right on Q but it doesn't have to be that engaging. You're 100% dead wrong on W, it's a very powerful cooldown that has to be rationed depending on the situation and creates an interesting bluffing game between Trynd and his opponent where they can outplay it.

Give him choice and strategy with more and more meaningful button pushing.

Trynd already has a lot of choice and strategy, it sounds like what you really want is flashy button combos with difficult timing that takes a lot of practice but is ultimately just like playing a really fast game of solitaire.

Oleandervine2 votes

Ashe, Yi, and Tryndamere were all recipients of some of the earliest VGUs done in the game. Yi's kit has also held up fairly well over the years, and Ashe's kit was updated not terribly long ago, so to qualify these two as "unreworked" is incorrect. Tryndamere's, however, has not aged well at all.

But yes, Tryndamere is blight on this game and needs to be massively overhauled.

poopsavage1 votes

Those were more similar to tweaks though, I wouldn't call them reworks. As opposed to... What they did with Aatrox, or Sion, or Eve. I guess the question is, "does the champ still play for the most part like they did before". Ashe and Yi do (although the changes to Yi Q scaling with AD was a huge deal)

SomeOneButNoOne2 votes

{quoted}

Those were more similar to tweaks though, I wouldn't call them reworks. As opposed to... What they did with Aatrox, or Sion, or Eve. I guess the question is, "does the champ still play for the most part like they did before". Ashe and Yi do (although the changes to Yi Q scaling with AD was a huge deal)

Yep. "Tweaks" From AP Yi midlane being meta to true-damage-on-hit-assassin is just a "tweak" Look into Yi's patch history and you will realize that champ has been basicly reworked with the core remaining the same.

Ashe's "tweak" also made her actually not be completely useless afk farm until 6 items, changed her gameplay patern a bit, and added an entirely new ability into her kit.

poopsavage1 votes

Yeah. And she's still a turret, and yi is still the zippiest auto attacker.

ContDeCaterinca12 votes

Trynda kit in short: He gets angry, forces you to fight him, if you refuse to fight him and turn your back he will "mock you" and spin on top of you. Now you are forced to fight and if you do it, he will not die and you lose.

It's in the champion's lore, Aatrox gave him the gift to not die as long as he keeps fighting.

He wants to fight, he gets to fight, he doesn't die and than he heals back. What more synergy do you want Trynda kit to have with itself?

Oleandervine2 votes

Well it needs to not be one-track minded cancer first of all. Past a certain point in the game, there isn't anything you can really do to deter his endless pushing play style. His kit is TOO simple, and when allowed to be good, it's a nightmare. It needs to be overhauled to give it more functionality than being a split pushing robot all game.

TimX24968B1 votes

whats wrong with a simple kit? its one of the biggest reasons i like playing him.

Oleandervine2 votes

Simple kits tend to have glaring problems. Because they're so simple, they're either good, or they're terrible. There's not really an in-between. This is why modern kits tend to incorporate some kind of CC or utility in them to reduce the simplicity and give the champion more things to contribute if they're too far behind. Tryndamere doesn't have anything in his kit he can contribute if he's behind or really even if he's ahead. His kit is designed around one thing - split pushing - and he's poor at everything else.

Khuri2 votes

I'm not sure Tryndamere needs a full rework. Perhaps a few added utilities to his W to make it always land a form of CC such as a slow when looking at him and then when the opponents back are turned it could fear or stun. Also, take off the cast time on his W to make it less predictable. This would give him the ability to actually play certain ranged matchups. His E is buggy right now and has been since season 8 changes(I.E. it doesn't clear walls in used to, auto-attacking the right target after E sometimes doesn't function properly, E bind in keys). Additionally, the recent nerfs to IE(S8), shiv, conqueror, and rageblade have left him in a spot where he must build max CDR as he cannot 1 shot carries like he could pre IE nerfs. He needs the potential to assassinate carries as he could before to be viable in the current meta of CCummoners rift. This was his bread and butter to win games prior to season 8 nerfs to AD items. He had split push potential with the assassination impact in combo with his ult that guarantees at least one carry of the opposition will die. Also, the experience-gold nerfs across the board heavily impacted split pushing to the extent you may be up 50-100 cs and only be one level ahead/ 1000gold. In prior season you would at least be 2-3 levels ahead and 3-4k on gold. In my opinion, conqueror needs to be revamped, IE needs to be buffed for melee only to 250%, and rageblade should be empowered on melee only champs while for ranged it is less effective. There is simply to much damage from mages and cc for AD carry champs like Tryndamere to ever thrive in this sort of meta.

One more thing: Ghost as a summoner has been terrible since the 2-second delay nerf. Riot should consider reverting this change or reducing the delay to some extent. Black Cleaver is also lacking in effectiveness.

Mavëríck2 votes

Tryndamere's kit is still great. He in an auto attack bot with a cheese ult for sure, but it's not like it doesn't have counters. He can cc'd while in ult. He doesn't have untargetable frames akin to Yi's Q. While I find fighting against his ult frustrating, I've never found it unbeatable. The only rework I want to see is his image and lore being updated if anything.

TimX24968B2 votes

trynd main here.

yes, please. he's one of the last champions thats actually simple to play, isn't full of gimmicks, and is "what you see, is what you get." he's reliable and consistent, unlike many new champions which feel gimmicky, have situational abilities, and like you're trying to play around the champion's kit more than utilizing it.

also please give demonblade a VU. that skin is not worth 1820RP

poopsavage1 votes

Honestly his ult is the least problematic aspect and the only part that synergizes with this low health brute concept. It's just boring and not really dynamic.

NemeBro2 votes

{quoted}

Tryndamere much like (Ashe, Yi, Shaco and similar unreworked legacy characters) is iconic and cements this games roots as an alternative to Dota. That said, in a game that is now so entirely it's own thing, it feels out of place and clunky to have a character who still plays like an old school melee farming hard carry with little synergy in his kit. More modern and reworked champions have real expression through their kits which makes a fight as or with them feel engaging and rewarding for both parties. Tryndamere's flaws are ripe and blatant and go to the nature of his Kit. For the record, I've played Trynd since 2010 in Wood VI.

His Passive- 35% crit chance at level 1 is massive. Compound this with his high base damage, and the benefits of certain runes that offer attack speed or true damage and it's unfair to play against. As the Trynd player, it's unfun to depend on luck in your trades. Maybe change it to a steroid scaling off of his missing % health, or something that doesn't tie him to marksman items .

His Q- A raw, instant heal that consumes the entirety of his offensive resources. Offers a negative synergy with his passive, and the passive aspect of the skill. At it's best, it will save your life in the right place at the right time. Most often, it gets made irrelevant with your ult and life steal. Maybe In moving Tryndamere away from crit chance to some other mechanic it could be changed to a reset/skill slash that consumes his fury for big damage and a heal.

His W- One of the few abilities in the game with no scaling. This is a support ability. Impairing CS in toplane with it is fun, but it just doesn't feel like it belongs on the OG big sword man in 2019. A targeted taunt with a shield would be wayyyyy cooler, or really anything other than this stupid skill.

His E- Best ability in the game. In fact, it's too good. On demand mobility, and damage on such a short cool down, can even go through walls. It's just too loaded. Redesign it as an engage ability and remove it's escape potential.

His R- This is what makes Tryndamere "Tryndamere". Despite the complaints of the children I play against, this ability is not the root of his problems. There is Counterplay and there is escape. The issue is, it's boring. I pop it and I can wail on somebody for 5 seconds without dying, or run away for 5 seconds without dying. Redesigning Tryndamere opens up this ability to be entirely reimagined. %damage resist that scales with missing health? Drastically increased fury generation for new q spam? STEROIDSSSS? All of the above? Other inventive ideas? Could be sick.

It's 2019 people, lets make Tryndamere great again.

Stop trying to get Riot to rework one of the very few melee carries in the game into another generic fatass bruiser that builds off-tank and falls off like a brick late game, ala Aatrox.

Note that I'm not saying he couldn't use a rework. He could. But your suggestions would make him just another off-tank diving fatass. They would homogenize him, just like Poppy's rework did.

poopsavage1 votes

alright, admit a targeted+shield on would be sick. What are some suggestions you would want implemented?

R E2 votes

did you know you could have doodge as a state? like you have ap ad attack speed you had doodge and there were items that gave you doodge and the more you had the more chance you had to doodge aa

not fun at all

poopsavage1 votes

nimba tabo amb pampom prancer

The Highest Noon1 votes

I didn't read anything after the title, but here's something worth mentioning:

The Butcher's Bridge ARAM map has an item that functions like a Tryndamere ultimate, except at the end of it's timeframe the champion that used the item dies. A Tryndamere ultimate except he dies at the end of the 5 seconds.

Aatrox recently had his ultimate nerfed where he doesn't revive unless he gets a takedown beforehand. Imagine if Tryndamere's ultimate only kept him alive so long as he's actually attacking someone?

Imagine: "After activation, Tryndamere survives for one second longer than the number of auto attacks against a champion, up to a maximum of 5 seconds."

poopsavage2 votes

But like, killing a champ would stop the death? That would be fun and in flavor.

The Highest Noon2 votes

Yes, and you know what's most in-flavor about it? It falls in line with Aatrox's ultimate requiring a takedown for revive, and the entire reason behind his ultimate is because Tryndamere was once influenced by Aatrox.

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

I mean, I get the idea behind it all, but no one's going to like the idea of their Ult being a slightly better Sion passive.

The Highest Noon2 votes

They're gonna like it whether they like it or not! [sg-ezreal]

Quepha3 votes

You want to remove choice from the player and nuance from the champion.

The Highest Noon2 votes

The choice of...what? Having an unfair advantage of complete unkillability? Is that the argument here?

Quepha2 votes

The choice of fighting or fleeing. You want Trynd players to not have any option and instead right click the enemy and wait to see who wins in the end. This makes him simply a stat-check champion who can only be balanced as a god who wins every fight or useless because he loses every fight.

The Highest Noon2 votes

This...is literally what Tryn players do already. I don't understand your point.

The Highest Noon1 votes

As a matter of fact, I don't understand what you're arguing. I'm literally detailing the exact same ability.

Quepha1 votes

I've played a lot of Trynd, I watch high level Trynd players, and I've watched a lot of Trynd coaching. You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Trynd.

Success as Trynd 100% depends on his ability to fight or flee and recognizing when to do those things. If you roll down the lane without thinking your MMR will fall.

The Highest Noon1 votes

And that has anything to do with my idea because..?

Or are you just whining because you enjoy playing an unfair champion? Are you a Riven main? Yasuo main? Teemo main? All of the above?

Quepha1 votes

You said his ult should only be useful when he goes in to try and kill someone I said that lowers his options and makes him more one dimensional You asked how I said that he sometimes uses his ult to instead escape and this gives the character depth and strategy Now you're asking how that's related to your idea

Did you actually forget what your idea was? What do you think this thread is about?

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

You said his ult should only be useful when he goes in to try and kill someone

No, I didn't. Didn't even bother reading the rest.

Quepha1 votes

lol it has 1s duration if he isn't autoing people and you are going to act like that's useful in a lot of other situations. I didn't realize you were ready to go full bad-faith argument on me.

The Highest Noon1 votes

Yes, yes it is useful. It saves you from an Ezreal ult. It saves you from a Jinx ult. It saves you from a Xerath ult. It saves you from virtually anything that you would even need to use his ultimate for that doesn't involve actually fighting someone.

I don't get what you're arguing against, because nothing beyond balance is chaning from his current ult to my idea. You're still using it in fights. You're still using it to save yourself after fights. You're still having it's full duration in fights. And there's no reason for you to have it's full duration when you're not in combat.

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