Zoe E Nerf?

Cherubini·Mar 12, 2019·5 votes·3,575 views

As of the Morgana and Kayle rework and update. It seems as though a change to Zoe's E went undocumented. Prior to the patch, if a Morgana applied spell shield after the E already hit the person, the champion would still go to sleep. But now, if the spell shield is applied after, the champion doesn't fall asleep anymore. This change isn't seen anywhere in the patch notes or bugfixes. And this isn't a small change either. It's a matter of life or death that used to be dependent on a Morgana's reaction time to apply the spell shield. If anyone could point to where this is documented that would be helpful. But for now, it seems to be unfair to Zoe players that such a change wasn't clearly addressed.

18 Comments

PsyrixMar 13, 20193 votes

It’s a bug. One Riot is apparently working on or is at least aware of. It’s extremely annoying and infuriating to play against because the blackshield

Chembaron YamadaMar 13, 20192 votes

Tbh, I always thought that this should have been how this interactions works since her release.

Other delayed hard CC spells get blocked by Morganas black shield. Aatrox W Bard Q Braum Passive Fizz R Ivern R Kled Q Ornn Passive Sejuani E Skarner E TahmKench Q, W Urgot R Viktor W Zyra R Zac Q

All these hard CC spells get blocked by the shield even if you got marked before the shield was applied. I don't see why Zoes E should be an exception here.

Rathar DashingMar 13, 20191 votes

None of those effects are all part of one CC, though. Zoe's drowsy into sleep is all the same CC. Morgana can block the second half of a CC if it's different, like Zac Q or Fizz R, since they initially slow then knock up, which are two separate effects. Half of your examples aren't even really delayed CC, like Braum passive or Tahm's abilities.

Chembaron YamadaMar 13, 20191 votes

How is Zoes E different from Zac Q or Fizz R? You say they count as 2 part CCs, since they first slow on hit and then hard CC enemy (Fizz R after delay, Zac Q after connecting with another target).

Zoe E does slow as well on the initial drowsy hit. Then after a delay, the enemy falls asleep. It is basically the same thing like Fizz R, except that the enemy sleeps instead of being knocked up. People always say that "it is one CC", but it works exactly the same like other delayed CC spells.

Rathar DashingMar 13, 20191 votes

Drowsy and Sleep are part of the same CC effect. It's treated as one long CC.

It's the same way Morgana pressing E on you doesn't remove a slow or a root mid-duration.

Cleanse effects work differently with other delayed CC effects, too, you can cleanse the slow from Fizz R but the second CC (knock up) will still hit you.

The reason people say it's one CC is because it is one CC, it's not like other abilities.

Chembaron YamadaMar 13, 20191 votes

This is just semantics, tho. Drowsy and Sleep are just "part of the same CC effect" for you, because you are used to that.

If it hadn't been that way on her release, it would make just as much sense. So that is not really an argument.

I think it is actually confusing, since the skill that resembles Zoes E the most in the way how it works is Fizz R. Yet his knockup gets blocked if Morgana uses her shield after the ally gets hit by the fish, but if Zoe hits drowsy on the ally and she shields afterwards, they will still sleep.

If 2 skills are so extremely similar in how they work, but have 2 different outcomes in the same situation, then I think one should be changed to match the other. It's about consistency.

Malix FarwinMar 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Tbh, I always thought that this should have been how this interactions works since her release.

Other delayed hard CC spells get blocked by Morganas black shield. W Q Passive R R Q Passive E E Q, W R W R Q

All these hard CC spells get blocked by the shield even if you got marked before the shield was applied. I don't see why Zoes E should be an exception here.

Whats hard to understand if it hits before the shield it should sleep otherwise its way too forgiving. Part of morg's skill is being able to shield before the cc hits you not after.

Chembaron YamadaMar 13, 20191 votes

You can say the same to most of the skills I listed there.

Why doesn't Morgana have to shield Zacs Q before it hits? Why it isn't needed that she does it before Aatrox hits his W? Same for Urgot R? Or Kled Q?

Why is it ok for Morganas shield to be forgiving for all these spells, but Zoe needs to get special treatment? It is an inconsistency in game mechanics.

Malix FarwinMar 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You can say the same to most of the skills I listed there.

Why doesn't Morgana have to shield Zacs Q before it hits? Why it isn't needed that she does it before Aatrox hits his W? Same for Urgot R? Or Kled Q?

Why is it ok for Morganas shield to be forgiving for all these spells, but Zoe needs to get special treatment? It is an inconsistency in game mechanics.

If you wanted to use real examples you would of used Nocturne and Sivir but you didnt because if you land Zoe's E on them before they shield it still goes off, thats what Morg's shield should be doing.

Instead however you choose to use champions whos CC is not even somewhat similar. Even using Lux/Morg as an example, unless you are gangplank you cannot break out of their CC with those shield or her own.

Chembaron YamadaMar 13, 20191 votes

Lux' CC works completely different from Zoes E. It is instant hard CC if you get hit.

When it comes to how the skill works mechanically, Fizz R is the skill that comes closest to Zoes E. And his knockup in this case gets blocked by Morganas shield, even if she applies it after the ally got hit with the fish.

Considering that you have a Zoe icon, I take it, you defend her because you don't want your champion nerfed in that regard. But your comparisons with which you defend her (like Nocturnes and Sivirs spellshields, which work completely different from Morganas black shield) don't really hold in my opinion.

If Riot decides that this is the way Zoes E works, I will accept it, but I will still voice that it is inconsistent with the rest of the game, therefore confusing and should be changed in my opinion.

DeepFriedPenguMar 13, 20192 votes

It's a decent nerf but I think its justified. Zoe E is extremely powerful and having ways to counter it are a plus to most people. As long as the true damage portion of it still applies to the next damage source then I dont see a problem with it. Yeah it sucks, but he E is just nutty.

TerozuMar 12, 20191 votes

Its always been like that, it was a major point of contention in fact.

CherubiniMar 12, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Its always been like that, it was a major point of contention in fact.

I've been playing Zoe since release. It had never been like that until this patch. Never had a Morgana applied shield after the E already hit and the person didn't fall asleep.

TerozuMar 12, 20191 votes

Morgana could shield the slow either before the bubble hit, which would block the slow but not the sleep, or after the bubble hit which would block the sleep but not the slow.

It was mentioned in an ask riot.

Rathar DashingMar 13, 20191 votes

That was about cleanse effects, not Morgana E.

TerozuMar 13, 20191 votes

It concerned her E has well.

It would either block the slow or the sleep but not both, since they're applied separately.

Rathar DashingMar 13, 20191 votes

That was never the case. I've play as and against Zoe plenty of times, and Morgana's E has never been able to prevent Zoe's sleep once a target was already drowsy. From the Wiki: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Types_of_Crowd_Control#Sleep "Morgana's Black Shield Black Shield can only resist becoming Drowzy, and will not prevent already-Drowzy targets from falling asleep."

Rathar DashingMar 12, 20191 votes

Zoe has a real E nerf on the PBE at the moment. Pretty sure they're not worried about her being too weak.