@Riot @Scruffy Sion Passive after 4.19 is much shorter than before - is it intended?

MrDiasJr··9 votes·6,492 views

First, let me say that I get why percent damage has been replaced with flat damage. Buying +health itmes to worsen your passive was really strange. But those new numbers seem way too high and Sion dies much faster now. So @RiotScruffy (or any other Riot employee who knows it) - was this increase in passive decay intentional? That is really the only thing that interests me here, rest of post are just numbers.

If numbers are required: I will only evaluate initial tic, as tic increases are scaled nearly similarly. Previously, you were taking 0.5% of your max health, now it's 2 times level. So, for new passive to be better than old one, you have to have 400 times your level max health. 1 level - yeah, here it happens 6 level - 2400 health 12 level - 4800 health 18 level - whooping 7200 health! So, of course, you can achieve 2400 health in a single match, and you can achieve 4800, though it seems ulikely to get them so early. But 7200...Now, I mostly play bot games, where, as a rule, Sion passive works way better and you also get more money. And even with this conditions, I've only once had 5800 hp on 17th level(item 3207 , ~600 health from passive, item 3083 , item 3143 and some other items). That is STILL 1000 short of optimal amount for 17 level(6800)

Leaving level scaling but decreasing first tic coefficient to 1.5(and adjusting tic increases accordingly) seems like way more achievable thing. It requires one to only have >300 times his level in max health (1800 for 6th level, 3600 for 12th level, 5400 for 18 level - those numbers look more realistic) to get any benefit.

16 Comments

RiotMeddler8 votes

Yeah, we're on the same page that the current health decay numbers scale too steeply by level. We'll be reducing the decay rate in patch 4.20 (final numbers not certain yet, but from memory the values we've been testing have been around 60% of current for example).

UPfreely2 votes

So this isnt actually a buff, just another punishment for not building tanky? should be closer to 40% at 18 for any noticable difference

Junkο7 votes

The balance team just doesn't know what the fuck they are doing, we found that out when they nerfed Yasuos numbers 5 times in a row instead of his crit or ult, overnerfed Skarner and Zyra, reworked Cass, etc...

Remlap12234 votes

Meanwhile... LeeSin

MY FACE!!! HE JUST TWO SHOTTED ME!!!

WHERE IS MY BLUE BUFF?

OH GOD EVERYONE I KNOW AND LOVE IS DEAD!!!

AetherKingdom2 votes

Meanwhile... LeeSin

MY FACE!!! HE JUST TWO SHOTTED ME!!!

WHERE IS MY BLUE BUFF?

OH GOD EVERYONE I KNOW AND LOVE IS DEAD!!!

Lee Sin OP pick one

The Red Warden3 votes

Lee sin is op

Name one other champion who is both an assassin and tank at the same time. He is the strongest jungler in the game, and has been so since season 2. He has barely any weaknesses and whenever any other champion even gets close to his power level they are immediately nerfed while Lee remains OP as f---. He has extreme base damage, great scalings, Utility, sustain, and possibly the best mobility in game. Give me one, ONE other champion as strong as him that can do as much as does.

The only people who don't think he is op are Lee Sin mains who just don't want their freelo nerfed.

DocRedgrave1 votes

I'm guessing you've never used Lissandra...

AetherKingdom2 votes

Lee sin is op

Name one other champion who is both an assassin and tank at the same time. He is the strongest jungler in the game, and has been so since season 2. He has barely any weaknesses and whenever any other champion even gets close to his power level they are immediately nerfed while Lee remains OP as f---. He has extreme base damage, great scalings, Utility, sustain, and possibly the best mobility in game. Give me one, ONE other champion as strong as him that can do as much as does.

The only people who don't think he is op are Lee Sin mains who just don't want their freelo nerfed.

1: Lee Sin isn't tanky. Like look at his fucking stats and tell me what screams tanky. He does a lot of damage but he is in no means tanky. 2: J4 is just as good as Lee Sin. Strong bases, non ult knock up, ridiculous catch potential/ zone potential on ult, slow, stronger shield, free armor, attack speed boost to entire team, etc. 3: I don't main Lee Sin but I don't think he's OP.

The only people who think Lee Sin is op are bads who refuse to actually play the game for themselves.

Narasimha4 votes

How on earth is Lee Sin two shotting you? What do you have, negative armor or something?

chumbler3 votes

Reminder that the Sion rework was not intended to produce a viable champion.

Kaisha3 votes

Reminder that the Sion rework was not intended to produce a viable champion.

Pretty much sums it up. Sad cause he looks and sounds so utterly cool, but man is he bad. The old sion was far more effective. Course so was the old cass, the old soraka, the karma... there seems to be a pattern here.

chumbler2 votes

Reminder that the Sion rework was not intended to produce a viable champion.

Pretty much sums it up. Sad cause he looks and sounds so utterly cool, but man is he bad. The old sion was far more effective. Course so was the old cass, the old soraka, the karma... there seems to be a pattern here.

The visual and audio updates were downgrades, too. His new model and voice are utterly boring, and more than that, they took away the Ahnold voice.

But yeah, reworks are almost always failures and intended to make a champion worse. The few successes were either accidental (and swiftly nerfed), there was nothing there to work with in the first place, or they barely changed anything gameplay-wise (like Sejuani, who was also swiftly nerfed into oblivion).

DocRedgrave11 votes

Screw the old Arnold voice, it's not even original! Sion's new voice actually solidifies his own personality, making him less of a cheesy Arnold reference and more of a war machine. But anyway, new Sion fits a lot of niches he couldn't do before. For one thing, he's now amazing when played with a dedicated team to support him.

Don't even get me started on why new Soraka is better than the old one. Cass, on the other hand, I agree somewhat that her rework hasn't been successful yet. However, Stashu is still trying (and he's NOT getting rid of the new passive, thank goodness).

Remlap12233 votes

Look, I love new Sion for actually being a character you can take seriously, but I actually liked his AHNOLD voice. I would've at least liked the option. I think half of the reason why I like playing as Gangplank is because he says stupid pirate shit every 5 seconds. I loved old Sion because he was cheesy in a fun way, and as much as I think new Sion's voice is amazing and very reflective of what his character really is like, I do miss the cheese.

Edit: I was talking about a Traditional skin bruh, no need to just downvote everyone you disagree with. Jesus, I'm not attacking anyone.

chumbler2 votes

Screw the old Arnold voice, it's not even original! Sion's new voice actually solidifies his own personality, making him less of a cheesy Arnold reference and more of a war machine. But anyway, new Sion fits a lot of niches he couldn't do before. For one thing, he's now amazing when played with a dedicated team to support him.

Don't even get me started on why new Soraka is better than the old one. Cass, on the other hand, I agree somewhat that her rework hasn't been successful yet. However, Stashu is still trying (and he's NOT getting rid of the new passive, thank goodness).

Man this post is just one bad opinion after another. First disrespecting the Arnold voice, then claiming Sion fits any niches that aren't "Bad champion, do not pick", and then thinking that Cassiopeia's shitty rework passive is something that should be kept.

DocRedgrave3 votes

Dude, he's a strong jungler who can run people down with his ultimate for a gank post 6. What's not to love about that? Plus, originality in a champion's personality and voice are far more interesting than a few lousy references to Arnold movies dating back to the 90s.

As for that Cass passive, the old one was so fucking misleading. The reason why you rarely saw her played was because any amateur Cass player would throw their lane by spamming and missing their spells in lane. It was just so freaking stupid it had to go.

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