I love that you nerfed Zoe, I hate how you did it

bertuzzy··15 votes·1,027 views

Now, now, please put down your pitchforks, I know, I've been on the receiving end of a fog of war oneshot. It's not fun suddenly staring at a grey screen. I'll also admit I played a bit of Zoe because she just feels fun to play, something I missed in this era of control mages, but I digress. I feel like the nerfs in 8.4 are heading in the wrong direction. I'll try to explain why.

So let's address the infamous NALCS oneshot. Many people claimed a 4 item + NLR baron buffed Zoe shouldn't be able to oneshot an ADC who has a QSS. Zoe's AP in the clip is around 700 give or take (not sure what runes Febiven had for secondary) with 36magic pen. A level 17 Tristana has 38 MR, so 68 total with QSS. Void staff cuts that to 41, and the flat pen cuts it to 5. So at this point every mage with Zoe's items would be dealing almost true damage to a Tristana with QSS.

Zoe by design SHOULD be able to one shot someone in that scenario, otherwise you'd have no reason to play her over any other long rage mage ( Xerath ). The problem is the fact that she can spam QRQ on a 4 second cooldown, over and over and over until one of them hits.

I think there're 2 ways to fix this without gutting her damage and putting her in the state she currently is, where you can't even 70% a carry with no MR after landing E and a max range Q.

Make her Q similar to Fiora's. Long CD if it misses, refund a percentage if it hits, say 60-70%. Something like 25 seconds late game means even at 40% cdr (which she rarely gets in her build) would still put her at 15 seconds if she goes for a hail mary and misses, which would give the other team a window of opportunity to engage on her. If it hits, it's down to 4.5 seconds, much like live. This way you force her to play around her team, or land her bubble for a guaranteed hit, without killing her team fight ability when she gets going. This also slows down her early game waveclear a bit, meaning you could revert the 8.4 Q-Passive nerf.

The second option is to shift more of her Q power onto her E. Bubbles are harder to hit and have a longer cooldown. Hell you could even increase it even more. Her E already amps the damage of other abilities/attacks, but you could make it so it specifically amps only her Q damage as an extra, while lowering the numbers on the Q. So an 8.3 patch QRQ hit at max range would be the same as an adjusted E + QRQ at max range after amplifying the damage. This way you make blocking an even bigger priority for the enemy team, and make it so that it won't hurt them as much for doing it.

The thing that feels like the absolute worst about 8.4 Zoe is the removal of the More Sparkles! from all Q targets. I get that she had way too easy of a time waveclearing, but it just feels so clunky leaving adjacent targets at awkward hp numbers. If you wanted to stop the waveclear into roam situation, making her Q behave like fiora would slow her down like I said, or you could make her Q deal less damage to minions, but leave the rest of the functionality as it was in 8.3. Damage nerfs always feel better than functionality nerfs. Those only serve to make the champion feel clunky. Example 4 seconds added to Kat's shunpo. I would have honestly preferred it did no damage, but kept the old cooldown. But I digress.

So yeah, it's fun to hate on Zoe, it's justified for the most part, and she indeed needed nerfs. But what we got in 8.4 is really killing the soul of the champion.

39 Comments

Serika Zero13 votes

No, she shouldn't do that. No champion in the game should be able to literally 1 shot someone with just using an ability with a very short cooldown.

In Zoe's case, is a combination of her R and Q. Both having a CD of 5s, and 6.5s. Add to that some CDR like 30% and you got yourself a Zoe that can one shot people every 4.55 seconds, or every 5 seconds.

#That's just bullshit.

And that's why Zoe is hated for. Syndra has a point and click ultimate that can one shot people, but you know what? she has a 80s cooldown at max lv. With a same 30% CDR is goes down to 56 seconds, or 48seconds at 40% cdr.

Even if its point and click, she can only one shot squishy targets once every 48 seconds. Zoe, if the player is good, will Ace the enemy team with only one shots in 25 seconds...... Syndra would need 240 seconds to obtain the same feat. See the problem? Almost 10 times more.

If her Q (Zoe) had like a 20 or 30 or even 40 seconds cooldown (before cdr) , people would still find it annoying, but not as disgusting. But she needs it low on CD because she needs it to wave clear, so................. her damage has to drop, hard.

Fuck it, imagine if Yasuo had his ultimate Available every fucking 5 seconds. So that, every time he hits you with his 3rd Q, he could ult!!!! Imagine just how broken that shit would be!!! And yes, that's how broken Zoe and her kit is.

ps: tristana also had a shield from item 3190 active when she got 1shot. So, its not like a perfect kill that just happened. No, it was a overkill of overkills.

bertuzzy6 votes

No champion in the game should be able to literally 1 shot someone with just using an ability with a very short cooldown.

Veigar W? Hell even Veigar Q? He does that with the items Febiven had and a decent amount of stacks.

If her Q (Zoe) had like a 20 or 30 or even 40 seconds cooldown (before cdr) , people would still find it annoying, but not as disgusting. But she needs it low on CD because she needs it to wave clear, so................. her damage has to drop, hard.

Like I said, refund CD if you hit something. This way she can still waveclear.

ninjaroxas2 votes

Veigar w isn't easy to land with out cc and his q isn't gonna one shot someone unless it's a 90 minute game or the other person afked

Fallen INFERNO2 votes

{quoted}

Veigar w isn't easy to land with out cc and his q isn't gonna one shot someone unless it's a 90 minute game or the other person afked

he also has two "not including ult" offensive abilities, his own aoe cc, and a point and click nuke ult. Also he scales simply by hitting enemies with abilities and ending minions with q.

Zoe's q hits the first target hit, of course it had a decent splash hitbox. good. burst mage remember. I truly can't understand why people are upset that her ONE combo does what it's supposed to. Yeah if you're an idiot and get slept in the middle of nothing and then get hit by a huge range Q, it's going to hurt, and it should

ninjaroxas2 votes

Zoe has 4 abiltys that deal damage. all of her basic abiltys deal some damage, maybe instead of frontloading all of her damage into one of them she can actually need to use more then 2 of her abiltys 90% of the game. Also most burst mages don't do 99% of their burst from 1 abilty, veigar uses at least 3 abiltys most of the time

Fallen INFERNO2 votes

{quoted}

Zoe has 4 abiltys that deal damage. all of her basic abiltys deal some damage, maybe instead of frontloading all of her damage into one of them she can actually need to use more then 2 of her abiltys 90% of the game. Also most burst mages don't do 99% of their burst from 1 abilty, veigar uses at least 3 abiltys most of the time

Dude, you're done. Stop comparing her to veigar. Stop comparing her to anyone. The point of new and unique champs is for them to be NEW and UNIQUE. Imagine that?! Doesn't she have the lowest base hp? And let's not kid ourselves W does no damage. And her E has as short range, they've nerfed the hitbox, and it's cd. Not to mention it has a delay before sleeping anyone. NOT TO MENTION they can just hide behind minions. NOT TO MENTION they can just have their teammate block for them. A tank....TANKING damage? Yeah a burst mage can burst a squishy adc, uh that's nothing new. Oh her main combo of sleeping a target then hitting them with a full range TRAVELS IN EXCLUSIVELY A STRAIGHT LINE Q will mess you up? yeah, it should. her weaknesses as a mage are mainly her being squishy and having low mobility. But, but, her R let's her teleport....to a spot not that far away, then without fail it takes her back to the original spot. Easy to play around, can't really use it for escapes. But, but her W gives a little movement speed when activated. Ummm she needs to pick up a summ for that to work and that's not nearly as often as you pretend. Veigar has a point and click NUKE ULT. let's settle down. you just can't play against zoe

ninjaroxas2 votes

First of all, calm the fuck down it's a video game get over yourself. I didn't compare him to veigar the person I was talking to did which is on the same side as you and not only that YOU compare her to veigar again in your own comment so nice try idiot. If you actually read my comment you would see that I want her to not have her damage front load on her Q. Her passive and w SHOULD actually be used, hell can you even tell me what her passive does with out looking it up? She also doesn't need to pick a summon for her w to activate her own summoners activate it to, bet you didn't know that either. Maybe actually know what a champion does before you try to defend it blindly. We are also talking about her balance before her nerf so why the hell are you bringing up how her E works post nerf I also had no problem playing against zoe but that doesn't mean she is balanced all of a sudden. If anyone is done it's you after making a complete fool of yourself

Fallen INFERNO3 votes

{quoted}

First of all, calm the fuck down it's a video game get over yourself. I didn't compare him to veigar the person I was talking to did which is on the same side as you and not only that YOU compare her to veigar again in your own comment so nice try idiot. If you actually read my comment you would see that I want her to not have her damage front load on her Q. Her passive and w SHOULD actually be used, hell can you even tell me what her passive does with out looking it up? She also doesn't need to pick a summon for her w to activate her own summoners activate it to, bet you didn't know that either. Maybe actually know what a champion does before you try to defend it blindly. We are also talking about her balance before her nerf so why the hell are you bringing up how her E works post nerf I also had no problem playing against zoe but that doesn't mean she is balanced all of a sudden. If anyone is done it's you after making a complete fool of yourself

Lol first off to you KID, lol you get over yourself. I'm fully aware of who said what. I can use my sentence to address everyone in the forum comparing zoe to veigar. And i followed it up by saying stop comparing her to anyone else. Bet you didn't know that huh?

Morons like you are exactly why this game is toxic. You go around being the most insufferable people known to man then when someone claps back at you they're the one with the problem. Ugh riot logic.

I'm fully aware her summs can activate her W, but noone is just casting their own summ for a slight boost of movement speed. the spells themselves are far too valuable. Bet you didn't figure that either huh?

Bringing up how her abilities work post nerf is not a relevant way to address her changes huh? weird. i somehow thought comparing her old stats to her new ones was exactly what this discussion was about. that's your 3rd strike, at this point any other garbage coming out of your "mouth" should lose you playing time on this game. Might save us all a headache.

Stay in your lane kid. you have no arguments you're just spouting nonsense

ninjaroxas2 votes

The fact you've resorted to the "kid" argument show you are very immature and can't actually debate.

You didn't say everyone needs to stop comparing her to others,only me. So if you are going to use your sentences to address everyone,actually address everyone. it also still doesn't change the fact you compared her to veigar in your own comment at the very end.

You also didn't bring up the fact that her own summoner trigger her w you said she NEEDS to pick up other summons and you still didn't tell me what her passive actually does, but you are just gonna look it up at this point so don't try to lie about it.

this entire post was about how the nerfs hit her too hard, so saying her E is fine after the nerfs doesn't change how it was before them. Yes her E is fine now but it wasn't before

You are obviously just trying to bullshit your way through this claiming to know stuff that you didn't know, insulting me which has nothing to do with how balanced she is, literally more then half of your comment is you just insulting me not actually defending her.

If you aren't going to be an actually civil human being about this,don't reply to this

Fallen INFERNO2 votes

{quoted}

The fact you've resorted to the "kid" argument show you are very immature and can't actually debate.

You didn't say everyone needs to stop comparing her to others,only me. So if you are going to use your sentences to address everyone,actually address everyone. it also still doesn't change the fact you compared her to veigar in your own comment at the very end.

You also didn't bring up the fact that her own summoner trigger her w you said she NEEDS to pick up other summons and you still didn't tell me what her passive actually does, but you are just gonna look it up at this point so don't try to lie about it.

this entire post was about how the nerfs hit her too hard, so saying her E is fine after the nerfs doesn't change how it was before them. Yes her E is fine now but it wasn't before

You are obviously just trying to bullshit your way through this claiming to know stuff that you didn't know, insulting me which has nothing to do with how balanced she is, literally more then half of your comment is you just insulting me not actually defending her.

If you aren't going to be an actually civil human being about this,don't reply to this

Lol if it quacks like a duck am i right kiddo? your mentality and thought process are so childish it hurts.

Please reread my comment and then lay to rest this first "argument" of yours because you're 50 different types of wrong. I'd get used to that because you're argumentative "skills" are nonexistent. Let's try to pretend we're using common sense here buddy.

Like i already stated, noone is using their summs for a small movement speed boost. flash which is almost always taken, is used to flash, not for movement speed. So her other spell, most likely barrier because she's squishy as hell, will give her a slight movement speed buff when they use it to try to prevent themselves from dying from whatever damage is currently or about to hit them. You lose another one. Keep trying.

I'm not here to bring up my own points i'm here refuting your attempts.

You've clearly never heard of being reasonable. Why wouldn't cleanse be able to prevent her sleep...of course it should. That's called being reasonable. Sorry that saying one of their changes wasn't bad while the other 16 were awful doesn't count in your mind as effectively arguing my point.

ninjaroxas2 votes

Well I guess trying to ask you to actually be civil about this was unreasonable then. You still aren't actually useing any actual arguments for me being "wrong" and are just insulting me. Grow up dude.

Fallen INFERNO2 votes

{quoted}

Well I guess trying to ask you to actually be civil about this was unreasonable then. You still aren't actually useing any actual arguments for me being "wrong" and are just insulting me. Grow up dude.

again, i'm only refuting your incorrect comments. me refuting them, unless you can make a case otherwise, would essentially mean that my original point stands. So you'd be the one without and argument here. But ok. How you manage to get everything 100% backwards is beyond me.

ninjaroxas2 votes

I bring you 5 arguments, you attempt to answer one then insult me. Every comment past your first is just that, how you reason you are right is beyond me. The only thing you can even make some kind of argument anymore for is her w, you've stopped even trying to "refute" the rest

Fallen INFERNO2 votes

{quoted}

I bring you 5 arguments, you attempt to answer one then insult me. Every comment past your first is just that, how you reason you are right is beyond me. The only thing you can even make some kind of argument anymore for is her w, you've stopped even trying to "refute" the rest

Man your perception of reality is truly warped isn't it my friend. Please reread the conversation until now, understand your comments are completely unfounded, then just stop trying.

ninjaroxas1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fallen INFERNO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ly6mjxM9,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T20:22:37.263+0000)

Lol first off to you KID, lol you get over yourself.

Morons like you are exactly why this game is toxic. You go around being the most insufferable people known to man then when someone claps back at you they're the one with the problem. Ugh riot logic.

at this point any other garbage coming out of your mouth should lose you playing time on this game. Might save us all a headache.

Stay in your lane kid. you have no arguments you're just spouting nonsense

ninjaroxas1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fallen INFERNO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ly6mjxM9,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T20:22:37.263+0000)

Lol first off to you KID, lol you get over yourself.

Morons like you are exactly why this game is toxic. You go around being the most insufferable people known to man then when someone claps back at you they're the one with the problem. Ugh riot logic.

at this point any other garbage coming out of your mouth should lose you playing time on this game. Might save us all a headache.

Stay in your lane kid. you have no arguments you're just spouting nonsense

Fallen INFERNO1 votes

{quoted}

so after introducing yourself with cursing you're all up in your feelings because someone called you "kid" on the internet? And somehow you're far better of a person than they are? hmmmm.

ninjaroxas1 votes

If you get upset at someone cursing especially when it's not used as an insult, you're the kid. Are you also going to just pretend the rest of your comment doesn't exist?

MuffledGarbage2 votes

Zoe's earlygame damage is too good to compare her to Veigar.

Zoe can pump out insane amounts of damage at level 1.

Zoe's abilities have next to no mana cost.

Veigar has almost NO damage at level 1.

Veigar is a mana-sucking machine.

Zoe's lategame is more powerful than Veigar's because she can kill any non-tank with two abilities every 7 seconds from the fog of war at NO RISK TO HERSELF VS Veigar has to get within QWE range, use 3 abilities, use up his only peel with a very high risk for a possible high reward, and Veigar has to use up a lot of mana.

Zoe gets to do Veigar's job with no AOE CC and no Risk to herself whatsoever.

Why do you want Zoe to be as strong as she was?

Zoe is actually balanced this patch because a good Zoe player will max Q first and be able to never let the opponent leave lane after level 6 due to her RQ range being really high.

Riot did the right thing by nerfing Zoe this way.

the weeaboo8 votes

Lmao you act like Syndra can only one shot with her ultimate. You don't think a Syndra is capable of an Ace with the massive range and stun on her QQQW? that shit is insanely powerful. Zoe takes out one target at a time, Syndra chunks out entire teams, but ultimately doesn't one shot unless she has her ultimate. You're comparing apples to oranges. Syndra is a AoE utility battlemage, Zoe is a single target burst mage.

Heckin Support5 votes

{quoted}

Lmao you act like Syndra can only one shot with her ultimate. You don't think a Syndra is capable of an Ace with the massive range and stun on her QQQW? that shit is insanely powerful. Zoe takes out one target at a time, Syndra chunks out entire teams, but ultimately doesn't one shot unless she has her ultimate. You're comparing apples to oranges. Syndra is a AoE utility battlemage, Zoe is a single target burst mage.

God forbid a burst mage can burst someone from 100-0 in one combo. But late game ADC's are allowed to kill just about anything in a couple autos.

Serika Zero2 votes

a combo is fine.... but if that combo has 5 seconds cooldown, we have a problem

Votable Jester1 votes

Veigar can 100-0 an adc with QW if they land (usually through E). That's not much longer of a cd and it hits a larger area and comes with an aoe stun.

MuffledGarbage3 votes

Veigar also has one of the WORST earlygames and takes over 30 minutes to gain enough AP to EQW an ADC to death.

Zoe starts using EQR and oneshots ADCs after 15 minutes.

Veigar actually uses up a lot of mana.

Zoe's mana costs are almost non-existant.

Veigar 's EQW also can't be done from the fog of war with no counterplay whatsoever due to the E and W animations being visible if they start in the fog of war. The sound effects also play in the fog of war.

Zoe's Q,W,E and R do not have any sound effects from the fog of war(Zoe's E doesn't make any sound until it is visible)

Zoe's burst is relevant from level one and upwards.

8.4 brought Zoe back into line with the rest of the burst mage cast because no other burst mage has an ability combo that can oneshot an ADC every 7 seconds.(Zoe QR(recast)Q)

Votable Jester3 votes

Zoe's EQR from fog of war has counterplay too. You can dodge it, cleanse it, dash/blink out of range, have someone body block it, shield you, and you can hit her back. Also Zoe can't one-shot the adc with just Q unless she's significantly ahead or has HG and Sorc boots and they haven't bought mr.

She also has significantly worse waveclear than Veigar now.

MuffledGarbage2 votes

You could only dodge/dash away from Zoe's QR from Fog of war if the area she was in was WARDED

This in turn means that it was not Fog of war

_Having someone bodyblock Zoe's "Fog of war" QR would, yet again, be a product of her being seen by wards; Zoe using an E before jumping in with QR is what would give her opponents time to react which in turn just means that a Zoe could avoid detection using E and use QR to massacre characters left and right _ A Zoe using QR from Fog of war, instead of EQR, makes your entire argument of "Zoe's EQR has counterplay" irrelevant because Zoe can skip out on using the move that allows her to be "countered"

Have you not seen the LCS twitch clip in which a Zoe one-shots an enemy Ezreal?

Not to mention that where in my comment did I even tank about Zoe being able to kill an ADC with JUST her Q?

Also I'm glad you ignored Zoe's mana costs being too low and Zoe's ability to have no sound effects while in the Fog of war, because that's CLEARLY not a point I was making Kappa

EDIT:

Old Leblanc's waveclear was worse than Veigar's

Old Leblanc wasn't balanced in the slightest, Riot didn't do the best job reworking her but they admit that her Old Design was unhealthy: "One-shotting/ dealing craptons of damage at early levels while having bad waveclear"

Votable Jester4 votes

Personally I never use sound effects as indicators aside from Sion and Kled Rs, so that's not really something I can discuss.

Zoe one-shots with just Q in situations where other mages would 100-0 with their non-ult combos. Outside of those situations, she requires E which has significant counterplay.

Her mana costs could maybe take a hit, perhaps on her Q or ult as it is usually the "poke" ability on mages that has the highest mana cost.

Zoe's able to press a lead harder than a lot of other long-ranged mages, but she has more difficulty when behind than those mages as well. She's more volatile, especially with the recent nerf to her waveclear.

MuffledGarbage1 votes

Ehh sound effects from the Fog of war was mostly because of the comparison to Veigar earlier and he gives 100% agency to people who hear/see his abilities from fog of war.

Sound effects is more subjective on balance terms but it would still make more sense to have Zoe's sound effects play in a similar fashion to how Veigar's do because of how much burst she carries.

Outside of sound-design, If Zoe's Q mana cost went from 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 to 65/70/75/80/85 and her E mana cost went from 80 ~all ranks to 70/80/90/100/110 I could honestly settle on her being balanced then.

This nerf would be similar to the early-Taliyah nerf where before the nerf, Taliyah could rush Rylai's and be really effective in damage early in a game. Now Taliyah takes a LOOOONG time of building her items before she can do the same amount of damage.

That same principle would be applied to Zoe in a similar fashion. There's not really a need to nerf Zoe's cooldowns or damage anymore(unless her Q damage is shifted to E or W) so nerfing those would only put Zoe into season 5 Aatrox levels of bad.

the weeaboo4 votes

As a Zoe player myself this makes me happy. They fucking dumpster'd her. I know people don't like being one shotted but that's how Zoe works and your proposed changes leave good Zoe's alone while shitting on bad Zoe's and I think that great.

all these people complain about being one shotted on a 5 second cooldown but somehow still make the argument on this thread against increasing the cooldown for bad Zoe's?

"But..but Syndra and one shot combo is on on longer cooldown!!!"

Yah no shit that's because Syndra, Orianna, Brand, etc. all have like 10x more utility in a teamfight so their damage is spread out. its not even a valid argument.

BeatzBoyFTW3 votes

Don't fucking copyright a title just to garner upvotes. That's not how it works.

Ahristocats4 votes

Indeed

he gains upvotes by making a good post, and thus mine

Malix Farwin2 votes

{quoted}

Don't fucking copyright a title just to garner upvotes. That's not how it works.

looking at this post and your history, are you like 12 or something?

xelaker3 votes

no champ should be able to literally one shot anyone. get your cheesy ass power fantasy out of here

Malix Farwin3 votes

The problem with Zoe was not actually her balance/damage. Damage and balance wise overall she was sporting numbers very similar to other burst mages. The problem was her kit and the way she dealt damage. The 2 primary problems was in laning she felt very oppressive and post laning too much of her power was in 1 ability. Now if they wanted to move more power back into her E then they should at the very least trat the E like Fizz's R where even if you cleanse there should be a debuff to increase damage.

Rathar Dashing2 votes

I agree that Zoe didn't need most of the nerfs she got, and I agree they nerfed her in the wrong way she needed, but I don't think your solution is any better than 8.4's.

Fallen INFERNO2 votes

Oh be quiet people. Zoe was never overpowered. Just like every other champion, she was build with strengths and weaknesses. Her strengths? She does burst damage. Her weaknesses? EVERYTHING ELSE. If you even remotely know how to play against a zoe she really doesn't do that well. I'm not even claiming to be an amazing zoe and i've never played with or against a zoe as good as me. The zoe problem is simply kids whining because they don't want to learn how to play against her or they're mad they can't go full brainless and just dive her because she'll sleep you. Yeah, sorry you're going to need some tactics there buddy. Get over it and get some talent at the game.

Things they did fine:

  1. Allow her bubble to be cleansed and prevent sleep, duh. Idk about completely removing cd on it for successfully sleeping someone but i haven't seen the cds at max and such.

Things they did completely wrong:

  1. Take away her ability to clear any wave even remotely. "we want wave clear to be one of her obvious weaknesses". Ummmm what. A mage that can't use spells to clear wave because she only has one that can even remotely do so? Yeah great idea tards. This relates to all the nerfs and changes on her q. Destroyed it's slight aoe damage, lowered its damage altogether...smdh.

  2. Pretend they shifted her damage around to keep her relevant. Her only offenses ability is her q and you murdered it. "oh but we added irrelevant tiny bits of damage to her already non damage doing W. Oh wooooow good job.

I have no idea what it is about zoe that players can't just accept, but the truth is you were just bad at playing against her. Whether it was because you couldn't play against her the same way you play some other champs (which is the point of new and unique champs) or because you simply never learned her kit and realized you can solve 90% of your problems by being behind minions.

Edit: Oh and btw, the proof is in the bans. She is STILL banned just about every game i play in if not every game. of course this differs depending on the time of day when different skills of players are on. I played a game as her yesterday and people were STILL complaining she was overpowered. If you can't admit that it's just a problem of what i've mentioned earlier, you're just part of the problem

WubbaLubbaDubDab2 votes

zoe was just a bad design from the beginning they should have cancelled her after the feedback from pbe,she was created to 1shot thats her core element and thats why she has only 1 damaging ability nerfs will either do nothing or compelitely butcher her.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

They didn't just nerf her into oblivion, they buffed he more unused parts of her kit. Until we see how Zoes perform now that her W and passive do more damage, I don't want her receiving any changes.

I'm sure Zoes haven't even started going ham like intended and are still just sitting back launching Es and Qs.

jocomotion2 votes

Oh my god.... an actual argument and NOT a cry thread. I must be on the wrong game forum no way you play league of legends.

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